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FSXA Ref Points, visibility and tweaking

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
I've created BGL Lights for my new airport and came across something weird:

Without tweaking the lights show from all angles, even if the user is way beyond the ref point (which is at one end of the rwy).

Now if I tweak them for conditional disply, the tweaking works fine, but as soon as the refpoint is not in view the lights disappear.

Is there some known ref point issue with tweaked files? :confused:
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
Looks like nobdy else has an idea. It's really weird, I can recompile my asm file without having any display issues, it's only after tweaking that the lights start to blink and vanish if I look into certain directions (mostly away from the ref point, but not only then).

Maybe somebody has an idea for a workaround? I thought about grouping the lights into smaller groups or including dummy objects in the file in order to make it much bigger than the actual runway. Has anybody experienced with these things relating ref points and visibility of objects?
 

arno

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Hi Thorsten,

What kind of tweaking did you do? If you used a SEPARATION_PLANE command you need to be aware that they work relative to the reference point, unless you specify the right offset for the vector.
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
No just conditional display. It's not that they show in some views and don't if I pan around. Sometimes they show up and the next moment the blink randomly almost like strobes. I am 100% sure it has to do with the tweaking.

I wonder if others, who did runway lights with BGL lights before, had this kind of problem.
 

arno

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Humm, interesting. Can you maybe show the conditions you used?
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
Here it is:

Code:
PADU_RwyLights_West_top label BGLCODE
    BGL_BEGIN 0800h ; version = 8.00
    MATERIAL_LIST_BEGIN
    MATERIAL_DEF 0.913725,0.262745,0.262745,1.000000,  0.913725,0.262745,0.262745,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000 ; 0
    MATERIAL_DEF 0.352941,0.945098,0.321569,1.000000,  0.352941,0.945098,0.321569,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000 ; 1
    MATERIAL_DEF 0.992157,0.988235,0.929412,1.000000,  0.992157,0.988235,0.929412,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000 ; 2
    MATERIAL_DEF 0.862745,0.909804,0.949020,1.000000,  0.862745,0.909804,0.949020,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,  0.000000 ; 3
    MATERIAL_LIST_END

[I]IFIN1 nolights, 028ch, 1, 4     ; time of day is not Day  AND  not Night[/I]


lightson label BGLCODE

; Alpha
PADU_RwyLights_West_Alpha label BGLCODE
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -1.332, 14.000, 6.408, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFE94343h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 1
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -1.375, 14.000, 10.799, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFE94343h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 2
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -0.587, 14.000, -71.201, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFE94343h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 3
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -0.629, 14.000, -66.810, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFE94343h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 4
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -1.332, 14.000, 6.408, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FF5AF152h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 5
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -1.375, 14.000, 10.799, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FF5AF152h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 6
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -0.587, 14.000, -71.201, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FF5AF152h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 7
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, -0.629, 14.000, -66.810, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FF5AF152h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 8
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 2002.310, 14.000, 25.643, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 9
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 2102.305, 14.000, 26.603, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 10
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 2184.696, 14.000, 27.393, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 11
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 2300.320, 14.000, -44.752, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 12
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 2299.616, 14.000, 28.497, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 13
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1903.018, 14.000, -48.566, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 14
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1902.315, 14.000, 24.683, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 15
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1009.282, 14.000, -63.394, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFDCE8F2h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 16
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 103.101, 14.000, -65.845, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 17
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 102.398, 14.000, 7.403, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 18
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 202.394, 14.000, 8.363, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 19
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 203.097, 14.000, -64.885, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 20
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 503.083, 14.000, -62.005, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 21
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 502.379, 14.000, 11.243, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 22
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 402.384, 14.000, 10.283, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 23
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 602.375, 14.000, 12.203, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 24
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 303.092, 14.000, -63.925, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 25
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 302.389, 14.000, 9.323, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 26
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 403.087, 14.000, -62.965, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 27
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 603.078, 14.000, -61.046, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 28
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 802.366, 14.000, 14.123, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 29
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 993.576, 14.000, 536.400, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFDCE8F2h, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 30
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 803.069, 14.000, -59.126, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 31
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 903.064, 14.000, -58.165, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 32
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 902.361, 14.000, 15.083, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 33
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1003.060, 14.000, -57.206, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 34
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1002.356, 14.000, 16.043, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 35
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1103.055, 14.000, -56.246, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 36
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1102.352, 14.000, 17.003, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 37
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1203.050, 14.000, -55.286, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 38
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1202.347, 14.000, 17.963, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 39
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 703.073, 14.000, -60.086, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 40
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 702.370, 14.000, 13.163, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 41
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1302.342, 14.000, 18.923, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 42
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1303.046, 14.000, -54.326, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 43
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1802.319, 14.000, 23.723, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 44
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1803.023, 14.000, -49.526, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 45
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1702.324, 14.000, 22.763, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 46
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1703.027, 14.000, -50.486, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 47
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1602.328, 14.000, 21.803, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 48
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1603.032, 14.000, -51.446, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 49
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1502.333, 14.000, 20.843, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 50
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1503.036, 14.000, -52.406, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 51
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1403.041, 14.000, -53.366, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 52
    BGL_LIGHT LIGHT_NAV, 1402.338, 14.000, 19.883, 20, 0.60, 0.40, 0FFFDFCEDh, 0.000000, 0.000000, 1.000000 ; source poly num = 53
endRWYlights label BGLCODE

[I]nolights label BGLCODE[/I]

BGL_RETURN
If I use this exact code without the inversed lines it works perfectly well. If I include them I get the display condition I want (so the tweak actually works), but also an uncontrollable blinking/fading/vanishing/... of the lights.
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
OK, forget about them working without tweaking. :eek: They don't work in any case now. I've changed nothing, looks like the flicker/vanishing was just luckily missing before.

Need to do more testing, maybe it's related to underlying terrain, altitude, altitude difference to refpoint,... :confused:
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
Ok, now comes just another weird FSX thing:

It all works perfectly fine in another location! :banghead:

Even after I deactivated all parts of my scenery and didn't do any tweaks I still got the problem. Then I placed my effect on lat 0.00 and lon 0.00 - and everything works. :eek:

It must have to do with the scenery being at N53/W166. Don't know why though, obviously. :mad:
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
Forget that last part too. There just seems to be logic reason why it sometimes works and sometimes not. Maybe it's just me. For the moment everything is working, some moments ago nothing was working. I start to think my FSX is messed up. :confused:
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
And here's the ultimate find:

It has nothing to do with tweaking, nor with refpoint nor lat/lon nor anything else I tried before. It's the time of day!
Tweaked or not, if I fly at day the lights work perfectly fine, but as soon as I switch to dusk/dawn/night they flicker. :eek:
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
I'm gonna despair of this matter. :banghead:

More tests gave this result: My lights only work on daytime, no matter where I place them. On some places (for example lat 0 lon 0) dawn/dusk/night don't work at all even though I didn't tweak anything.
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
Ok, I think I just made a terrible stupid mistake.

Do I need to rename the BGL to MDL? Apart from the dusk issue the BGL works fine but I only just found out that I was supposed to rename the BGL to MDL and place it as usual.

Now this is what I tried:

- create the file in 3dsMax
- export as an x-file
- Open MDLMaker (Version 8.0.0.20403)
- Compile file
- rename BGL to MDL
- try to import it into LibraryCreatorXML
- error message: "* is not a valid MDL file"

Did I use the wrong MDLMaker?
I think I'm getting somewhere, but still struggle here. :(
 

arno

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Hi,

Your code is from the FS2002 gamepack, so then you get a BGL file as output, not a MDL file.

I am thinking maybe the reference point does not have the v2 value set correctly, if you only have lights in there I am not sure if the gamepack calculates it correctly. You might want to try to increase it a bit and see if that helps.
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
That's a good idea. Will try to add some other stuff.
Which gamepack was I supposed to use for export? I can only find one MDLmaker and it's from the 2002 SDK.
 

arno

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
You could also use the FS2004 gamepack for this I think. It has its own MakeMDL version included.
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
In that case I'm missing something. I've only got 1 MDLMaker, it's in my 2004-SDK folder (version 8.0.0.20403), and it says Flight Simulator 2002 SDK. Maybe I installed the wrong exe? Never used it for a long, long time I have to admit.
 

arno

Administrator
Staff member
FSDevConf team
Resource contributor
Hi,

That is indeed the FS2002 version, the FS2004 version is 9.00.030612.02.

But for these lights I don't think it matter so much which version you use. I don't think there is a big performance different for them between the FS2002 or FS2004 techniques.
 

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
It's no good, whatever I do.
Maybe you could take a look at the code/files, I can't see where I'm missing anything.

Coordinates:
N53° 53.829' W166° 32.219'

Directly east of the runway at Dutch Harbour.
 

Attachments

Horst18519

Moderator
Resource contributor
And the answer is:...


...DX10! :banghead::banghead:
Took me more than 1 week to figure it might have something to do with DX10. As I almost only use DX10 anymore (all my projects are 100% DX10 compatible) I almost forgot that there was DX9 someday. Well, now I'm back with DX9 again, because everything I described above seems to be expected behaviour in DX10. :(:censored:
 
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