Rob Barendregt; Rockets and VTOL Landing Question

#1
Hey Rob,

Just a quick question.

Is it possible to create a file that can allow a rocket to take off 'and' land vertically? This would be a SpaceX model; BRF.

The idea is, the system (when active) would turn into a sort of gyro guidance system keeping the nose up.

I had seen that V4 has rockets, which I assumed they did in V3 Pro when they came out with rockets for jet fighter training. I was going to experiment with a Helo airfile set and then wondered... What if you could do this with a rocket dynamics pack and create a lander system?

Just curious... Still buried in projects but interested in this, if its doable.


Bill
 
#3
Probably (maybe) use a 737 flight dynamics kit and use that as a platform, setup the engines and speeds (as much as possible) and then figure out how it would take off and land.

Another issue or wall to hop would be the first stage. On take off, the actual BFR's use a lower stage. That would detach in the outer atmosphere. What one possibly could do is have the landing gear be like a sea plane. Gauge retracts the fake landing gear (first stage) and you land on the floats 'contact points'. This would enable a tall sit on the runway when tanks are full, then launch, gear goes up, dummy 'lower stage' detaches, then you land on the contact points at the fins of the BFR rocket.
 

rcbarend

Resource contributor
#4
Hi Bill,

In fact I allready made this once for Bruce Fitzgeralds Atlantis Spaceshuttle.
Look a my SpaceFlight gauge package in the SOH library, which simulates the whole vertical takeoff and launch of the spaceshuttle.
Its launched with a 88 degrees pitchup attitude and slowly levels out and rotates around its axis. Just like the real launch.
(the sim doesnt like a stable 90 degrees pitch)

Rob
 

rcbarend

Resource contributor
#7
Just to make sure, this can land vertically?
Not sure what you mean by "THIS".

No, the spaceshuttle cannot land vertically. It lands like a normal fixed-wing aircraft.

Can I make "it" (the space shuttle or any other flying object) land vertically ?
Yes and No.

- Yes: at normal pitch attitude (around 0 )

- No: not with pitch attitude 90 degrees (so landing on it's tail). Impossible in FS.
 

rcbarend

Resource contributor
#9
Hi Maryadi,

Thats a Corvair Pogo , right ?
In fact, there is a model that exits allready and has my VTOL in it. Created by the late (my good friend) Paul Clawson for FS9.
And visually it takes off and lands vertically.
However, another trick was applied here...the whole visual model was implemented as a gigantic Flap.
So in VTOL mode, the whole visual model was rotated 90 degrees, and in the conversion to normal flight it rotated back to normal (with defined flaps speed)

See file pogo.zip on flightsim.com

Rob
 
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#10
Hi Maryadi,

Thats a Corvair Pogo , right ?
In fact, there is a model that exits allready and has my VTOL in it. Created by the late (my good friend) Paul Clawson for FS9.
And visually it takes off and lands vertically.
However, another trick was applied here...the whole visual model was implemented as a gigantic Flap.
So in VTOL mode, the whole visual model was rotated 90 degrees, and in the conversion to normal flight it rotated back to normal (with defined flaps speed)

See file pogo.zip on flightsim.com

Rob

Ahhh so..... Very interesting. I didnt think about flipping the model structure. VC Nightmare, but the concept would be functional... What if the hinge point was at the visibility point? Would be some tall landing gear, lolol... If you hinged around the visibility point, you would then be looking at the seat bottom, needing to look straight up. That is realistic.
 
#11
Hi Maryadi,

Thats a Corvair Pogo , right ?
In fact, there is a model that exits allready and has my VTOL in it. Created by the late (my good friend) Paul Clawson for FS9.
And visually it takes off and lands vertically.
However, another trick was applied here...the whole visual model was implemented as a gigantic Flap.
So in VTOL mode, the whole visual model was rotated 90 degrees, and in the conversion to normal flight it rotated back to normal (with defined flaps speed)

See file pogo.zip on flightsim.com

Rob
Hi Rob,
yes it Pogo. just curious with 90 degrees pitch issue.
 

rcbarend

Resource contributor
#12
Ahhh so..... Very interesting. I didnt think about flipping the model structure. VC Nightmare, but the concept would be functional... What if the hinge point was at the visibility point? Would be some tall landing gear, lolol... If you hinged around the visibility point, you would then be looking at the seat bottom, needing to look straight up. That is realistic.
You are right: the VC would have been the main issue; but that FS9 Pogo mdl didn't have a VC, just a 2D cockpit.
And I could solve the view direction in 2D, because FS9 had an axis function for ViewDirection (which is removed in FSX); so I could control this axis between 0 and 90 degrees, with the actual position of Flaps extention.

Not sure how Paul solved the contact points problem, but if you download the model you can see how.
In FS9 this worked perfect ..; but again, without VC.
 
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