FS2004 SBuilder - Hi-Res Photo and Terrain Mesh

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Well in my never ending pursuit of the best airport I can make - I'm trying to get my first mesh to work with the SBuilder 1024x1024 photo tiles... From everything I read - this is one of the two ways to get 1024x1024 to show up in FS9... I was hoping as an added benefit - since I don't thing this is considered a VTP Photo Tile - that there was a chance that Autogen might work with this method...

I found a tutorial and was following along... All pretty straight forward...

• 
  Download Elevation Data
  Convert HTM to BSQ
  Convert BSQ to BMP
  Add Map to SBuillder
  Calibrate Map in SBuilder

And now the part I have been having an issue with...

Select "Mesh" in SBuilder and choose tile - LOD8 - that you want included with your project... The problem is every time I click on "Mesh" my Elevation Map loses all calibration data and shrinks to a tiny size... Then SBuilder errors out with "No Mesh Map Found" or something pretty close to that...

I've tried multiple attempts and map calibrations - same result... My pix seem to match those provided in the tutorial...

See attached PIX... The map is scaled appropriately - where green covers screen... I can even see the impression of the river matching up with my scenery... Then it shrinks...

Might be something dumb - I was working on this pretty late last night...

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

PS: When using my own mesh - I don't have to have my photo scenery cover the entire LOD8 tile - do I ?

PS: Also - I've used DEM before and my image looks pretty messed up to me... Lighter is higher and darker is lower... The DEM in the immediate area of my airport looks reasonable - I can see the river - and that makes sense... BUT - what is that ice crystal shattered looking structure that looks like it is loaded on top of normal elevation data - to the North and West ??? It just doesn't make any kind of sense to me - the trasnition from light to dark looks like a structure with shear cliffs and jagged edges... Ahh - well - we'll see what it looks like if I can get it compiled and loaded...

 

[kevintampa5]

Have you tried applying the LOD level before calibrating the map?
What tutorial are you following?

 

[GaryGB]

what is that ice crystal shattered looking structure that looks like it is loaded on top of normal elevation data - to the North and West ??? It just doesn't make any kind of sense to me - the transition from light to dark looks like a structure with shear cliffs and jagged edges.

Hi Scott:

FYI: The "structure that looks like it is loaded on top of normal elevation data - to the North and West" ...is the hills northeast of Ellenville, NY.


AFAIK, your screenie of the *.BSQ / *.BMP mesh file above is essentially a lower bit-depth, higher-contrast, green-colored "HeightMap" of the terrain around KGMJ:

SBuilder for FS9 Menu > Help > Search Tab > Search String: "BSQ" > click 'List Topics' > Preferences - Other settings > "8-bit/meter"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heightmap



Here's a 10-Meter DEM of the terrain in that area as a tilted 3-D view, using more commonly seen GIS "Hill Shader" colors:

NOTE: For help with orientation and FS development, I'd recommend installing Google Earth free edition:

http://www.google.com/earth/index.html



BTW: For a quick initial scan of where you are, and to see what is covered in the mesh file you show in your screenie above, you can also use Google Maps:

1.) Go to: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

2.) In the Search text box, enter:

41.5099884,-74.2646444

...Then click on the 'Magnifying Glass' icon


3.) Click 4 times on the "-" Button of the "Zoom" slider, to Zoom out.


[EDITED]

And now the part I have been having an issue with...

Select "Mesh" in SBuilder and choose tile - LOD8 - that you want included with your project... The problem is every time I click on "Mesh" my Elevation Map loses all calibration data and shrinks to a tiny size... Then SBuilder errors out with "No Mesh Map Found" or something pretty close to that...

I've tried multiple attempts and map calibrations - same result... My pix seem to match those provided in the tutorial...

See attached PIX... The map is scaled appropriately - where green covers screen... I can even see the impression of the river matching up with my scenery... Then it shrinks...

Might be something dumb - I was working on this pretty late last night...

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

PS: When using my own mesh - I don't have to have my photo scenery cover the entire LOD8 tile - do I ?

CAVEAT: SBuilder for FS9 Menu > Help > Search Tab > Search String: "BSQ" > click 'List Topics' > Mesh Scenery:

"Note 1: your bitmap should cover at least one LOD8 square (one Cell). You may need to merge BSQs to cover your area of interest.

Note 2: the Check button will test if all painted LOD8 squares (the mesh tiles you want to generate) have a bitmap underneath. If there is no bitmap underneath (you could have deleted it accidentally) the mesh tiles are deleted.

Note 3: in version 2.05 you can generate tilted LWM polygons ("Make Flattens") that can help you in making high resolution photographic scenery. See this topic in the PTSim forum for further help: http://www.ptsim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4269. "



CAVEAT: SBuilder for FS9 Menu > Help > Search Tab > Search String: "BSQ" > click 'List Topics' > Merge 2 BSQs:

"Merge 2 BSQs
Unless you are working with a very small area, you will probably need to merge BSQs to generate mesh tiles. You can not generate a mesh tile from 2 adjacent bitmaps. Therefore you need to merge BSQ files in order to get a bitmap with sufficient coverage for your area of interest. You merge BSQs in pairs"


PS: Some more links on SBuilder High Resolution photo-real scenery:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&...29,d.aWM&fp=94e32a4cea89f529&biw=1067&bih=705


FYI: Dick Ludowise (aka "Rhumbaflappy") wrote a helpful utility "TCalc2004" for FS9 which may assist in sorting out positioning and QMID / Cell / texture tile info:

http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=tcalc_v2.zip&CatID=root&Go=Search

[END_EDIT]



Hope all this is of some help getting oriented to your next production phase !

GaryGB

 

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Thanks soo much for all the info...

This was the tutorial I was following...

http://www.michael-schaeuble.de/tut...ing-mesh-scenery/download-elevation-data.html

I think I found my problem and have it working now... There was a separate tab on the map calibration tool - specifically for Mesh Maps... It's not real intuitive and took me a while to get it to work... I use FSGenesis - so it's not a vast improvement - but - it's better... At one point - the textures weren't being applied properly and I could see the naked mesh... Finally - I just threw the Resampled textures on the new mesh...

As far as the Hi-Res 1024 textures go - I think they loaded up as well - but - it appears they use a similiar process as the normal VTP polys... I immediately noticed the black line tile separation you get when the texture shifts MIP levels... Can't live with that or the lack of autogen - so I'm back to Resampler again... I did notice that SBuilder was creating two "Photo" BGL's with the Hi-Res textures as well as the Mesh BGL... At least I am learning a lot...


Hi Gary - yeah - I knew there was a mountain range to the North/West - just the fact that those didn't blend well in the BMP didn't make sense... I checked out the area in the sim though - with the new mesh and didn't note any abnormalities... That's a pretty cool utility for the 3D image - I'll have to give it a shot...

I think my intention now - is just back to hand painting the photo images with roads, streams, and railroad tracks to match GE Pro for both day and night useage... The other thing I plan to do is had paint a blend mask effect on the images as well to match the surrounding GE Pro tiles - with a fade to remove the hard line... It won't be perfect - but - it should blend better...

One step at a time...


Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

 

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

One more question - how can I convert USGS formatted data for input into either SBuilder or Resampler ?

The USGS Site has the following formats available:

• ArcGrid
• GridFloat
• GeoTiff
• BIL_16IN

SBuilder looks like it reads:

• DTED2
• HGT

Resampler SDK only talks about ".DAT" files...

As per the SDK source data needs a few values:

[Source]
	Type			= ElevS16LSB
	SourceDir		= "x:\dem"
	SourceFile		= "dem_100m_mtrainier.dat"
	Lat			= 46.99916666667
	Lon			= -121.9466666667
	NumOfCellsPerLine = 457
	NumOfLines		= 375
	CellXdimensionDeg = 0.0008333333333333
	CellYdimensionDeg = 0.0008333333333332
	ScaleinMeters	= 1.0

Which is my best option to build FS9 Mesh ?

Regards,
Scott

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Scott:

IIRC, SBuilder for FS9 can only make (much) lower resolution terrain mesh for use with "Hi-Res photo-mesh" at LOD-8 / 152 Meters between elevation data points on the ground !

SBuilder for FS9 makes its terrain mesh via the same protocol as would be 'part' of making the underlying (low bit-depth / high contrast) BSQ version of a HGT file (aka "HeightMap") for use in creating photo-real VTP textured land class tiles.



In FS2004 with the version 9.1 'patch' aka "FS9.1", terrain mesh rendering is capped at an effective display resolution of LOD-11 / 19.2 Meters between elevation data points on the ground (...provided that TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL aka "TMVL" is also set at 21 or greater in the FS9.Cfg file) at run time.


So, IMHO, you would not want to limit yourself by using the SBuilder for FS9 method of creating FS terrain mesh, and would instead wish to use FS2000, FS2002, or FS2004 SDK Resample methods.



BTW: Use of the pre-FSX SDK (aka "legacy") Resample methods to make terrain-mesh clinging photoreal textures will not require limitation of source imagery bit-depth to below 24-bit for BSQ / BMP texture "mesh" tiles, and photo-real aerial imagery will display without visible 'black' texture seams between the LOD-13 quad sized texture tiles at 4.75 pixels per Meter resolution ...as those texture tiles also 'automatically' cling to the underlying, higher-resolution terrain mesh.



The caveat is that one will likely need to make additional "buffer" resolutions of terrain mesh BGLs at LOD-7 through LOD-9, possibly also LOD-10, to prevent gaps in terrain mesh tiles described as "sky blue slivers" < ...not to be confused with "Hi-Yo Silver !" > ...being seen at a distance between edges of adjacent LOD-13 quad sized texture tiles in some mixed altitude terrain contour scenarios.

Prior to FSX, all terrain mesh BGLs can contain only a single LOD, so one will have multiple terrain mesh files in a (IMHO) "properly" developed mixed altitude terrain scenery package.


NOTE: FSX SDK Resample single-LOD, un-compressed output terrain mesh BGLs reportedly will not work in versions of FS prior to FSX.



If you indicate that legacy SDK Resample methodology is the technique you want to utilize to make terrain mesh for FS9, perhaps more may be posted here to illustrate that technique, and the file formats for source data which might be more readily processed by FS2Kx SDK Resample.


Hope this helps with decision making at this juncture of the development process.

GaryGB

 

[scottb613]

Hi Gary,

Sorry for the delay - I had typed up a lengthy response and inadvertantly hit something that cleared it before I hit post... LOL - let's try this again...

It sounds like Resampler is the only way to go for just about everything... I'm down to a few flattens and Landclass mods in SBuilder - if I move the mesh to Resampler...

Like most - I already have FSG's mesh and world "buffer" mesh loaded and I know the difference the buffer mesh makes... Those little blue slivers can be annoying...


I didn't recall anything posted in the SDK about creating different mesh for different LOD levels... I'll have to check again... I'm certainly willing to give Resampler a try but - LOL - as always - I may need a few pointers getting started... I'm assuming the USGS data is the best to use but I need to somehow convert that into ".dat" format... Someone sent me a link to some tools - so I've got to take a look and see if they will work...

Before I delve too deep into the arcane art of mesh developement - just what kind of return would you think I would see on my investment... Again - I have FSG's latest work for FS9 loaded - am I going to see a substantial difference if I build my own mesh using the elevation data that is available today ???

I'll check my "TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL" setting as well...

Regards,
Scott

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Scott:

If indeed you have the "latest" FSG terrain mesh for FS9, it would likely be the LOD-11 / 19.1 Meter product:

http://www.fsgenesis.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=RGNL04US


To confirm that is what you have installed, you would have to view all the USA terrain mesh BGLs for your "KGMJ" local area of interest in:

[FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\TmfViewer.exe


Next: TMFViewer Menu > View > Level of Detail > click / check "ALL"


Then: Note maximum LOD number listed for that file; repeat for all FSG mesh files covering the KGMJ area


FYI: If you have the "latest" FSG FS2004 (aka "FS9") 19.2 Meter terrain mesh, your highest listed LOD will be LOD-11


NOTE: Older / other versions of the FSG USA terrain mesh will only list out as:

* LOD-10 / 38.4 Meters (Continental coverage):

http://www.fsgenesis.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CONT04-38


...Or:

* LOD-4 / 5 / 6 (Global coverage)

http://www.fsgenesis.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=GLOB04



AFAIK, if your purchase plan with FSG entitles you to the full resolution FSG FS2004 (aka "FS9") 19.2 Meter terrain mesh, once installed, you would not need to make any custom terrain mesh, as any terrain mesh with a resolution higher than LOD-11 will not change the shape of the terrain, and would instead only result in changes of the 'slope' textures displayed on default land class textures, but which would not be superimposed onto one's custom photo-real land class textures.

And, IIRC, when "ground shadows" are enabled in FS9 at run time, the "shape" of those shadows would still only correspond to those of the maximum LOD-11 capped resolution allowed by the FS2004 version 9.1 rendering engine.

Thus, terrain mesh BGLs with an "internal" resolution higher than LOD-11 loaded into FS9 (by virtue of their greater quantity of elevation data points used), would only add to the size of one's scenery package without any visible benefit when custom photo-real land class textures are used in a scenery package.


However, if desired, one could fine tune any desired smaller local areas of interest seen at lower altitudes (ex: adjacent to airports) using sloped / tilted LWM3 flattens.

And as with terrain mesh, precision of rendered flattens (whether "flat" or "sloped") in FS9 at run time ...would also depend on whether one's TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL aka "TMVL" is also set at 21 or greater in the FS9.Cfg file at run time.



BTW: Regarding the "tools" which "someone" sent you a link to: if you would care to disclose that information in this thread or via a Private message, I could better understand what you are referring to, and perhaps offer some comment as to applicability / efficacy of such recommendations for FS9 terrain mesh development.


[EDITED]

PS: For all practical purposes, the *.DAT file extension shown in the SDK example source code is a "wild card" for either of several DEM data file format types with differing file extensions which may be used with FS2Kx Resample.


http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#TheResampleTool


NOTE: See especially Source Parameters > Raw Data Source Parameters




However, to be more technically accurate, IIRC, ACES used the ESRI "Arc_x_x_" product line for their master GIS system, and the DEM data at certain stages of FS default terrain mesh file production processes may have been utilized in a ESRI "*.DAT" file format, thus their own in-house techniques ended up in the FS SDK 'documentation'.

I believe there may be a few posts here and in old threads at AVSIM which discuss use of various source file formats bearing several file extensions in FS2Kx SDK Resample *.INF files.

[END_EDIT]


Oh, and notice how "detailed" ACES was in listing those file types for those who paid extra money for a version of FS2004 which included the SDK ?

Uhm, Looks like Google (and the FS Developer Community) is your friend; and Microsoft Game Studios "ACES" ... is permanently gone now.


GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

"Bumped" for edits to my post immediately above.

GaryGB

 

[scottb613]

Hi Gary,

Thank you kindly - sir...

Let me read through again - I'll probably wait until tonight as your posts are so chock full of valuable information it requires 100% of my concentration...


Regards,
Scott

 

[scottb613]

Hi Gary,

Thanks again - LOL - I had never seen those sites before and thought I had stumbled upon a long lost gold mine... Then I realized the links were all FSX related - LOL... I'll check that source info though... Have a good night.,,


Regards,
Scott

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Scott:

One can substitute ESP for FSX and vice-versa; but then, for all practical purposes, one can also substitute P3D for ESP.


And, to ACES credit, they did finally "document" more about the file formats which can be used with Resample in the FSX / ESP SDK for mesh creation.


FYI: DEM data source file format requirements are essentially the same for both FSX / ESP and "FS2Kx" (aka: FS2000, FS2002, FS2004) SDK Resample utilities except in regards to GeoTIFFs.

For terrain mesh creation, 'most' other parameters apply to both FSX / ESP and FS2Kx, so don't be deterred by posted links being for a "current" version of FS.

BTW: Some might say that info is potentially a 'lost gold mine' ...compared to what we previously had made available to us in the FS2Kx Terrain SDK 'documentation' as pertains to DEM data source file format requirements.


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[69Yanks]

Kmgj

I just started to work with scenery and live in the village of Montgomery NY and saw your post. I also will look into improving the airport and surrounding image on the mesh.

 

[scottb613]

Hi Yanks,

What's your first name if you don't mind ?

Yeah - my parents just sold their house - the lived off Collabar on the way to Bullville - for years...

I'm working on modeling Rick's Runway Cafe at the moment...

Here are some progress pix I posted: http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?t=259873

Nice to see local folks around as well...


Regards,
Scott

 

[69Yanks]

Wow!!! I drive by this airport almost every day. My first name is Brian. My mom lives right under the incoming flight path... I guess you saw my other post about Rickc. Here is link to the Culinary Creations. http://culinarycreationscafe.com/ I plan to go their with me wife very soon. Excellent work! BTW, I use Air Hauler to add some incentive to fly and my FBO is KMGJ so hoping to be flying out of your KMGJ real soon. Since you have Lago FSE, they have a hot air balloon which you will see southeast of the airport on a warm weather day. You can also make cars go by on Route 211 with FSE. It may never end....

 

[scottb613]

Hi Brian,

I had the corner hangar closest to 21 at KMGJ for years - it was a great place to pull up a chair on a Saturday afternoon to watch the traffic... I ate at Rick's a bunch - it was a pretty popular spot on the weekends - word was the County was really tough to deal with and he finally said enough... Its a shame - I know he did much of the construction himself... Haven't tried the new place yet - I'm sure I'll get there eventually... These days I prefer "New Cavu" at Kobelt... It's a few miles off the approach end of 21 around Gardiner... Great food (step above your normal airport grill) - small airport atmosphere - and the have outside dining in the summer - so you can watch the traffic... I'll post updates as I go - banks for the comments...

Regards,
Scott