MSFS Scenery object SCALE (and slew mode)

[jgarnold]

Just wondering if it is possible to adjust the scale of a scenery object OR looking at the following images, what is causing my scenery objects to appear smaller in MSFS.
I have circled on the ADE screen the scenery objects which are causing the problem and also on the MSFS screen how those scenery objects are displayed - I assume they are displayed smaller than they should be and with large gaps between each. If I select any of the scenery objects for EDIT it displays the scale as 1.0 which is what I would suspect but why are they displayed as they are? Also if it is a problem with the scale how do you change it.
The other scenery objects I am using cause no problem.

Lastly using Slew mode. Yes I know this isn't am ADE related thing but to save posting a separate thread somewhere. Looking at a pdf file I have of keyboard commands I see the 'Y' key toggles slew mode and the num pad keys 'slews' the aircraft BUT it moves the aircraft extremely fast and even tapping on a key moves it much further than required. I have tried holding down the Shift key and also the CTrl key at the same time without any joy.

 

[jgarnold]

I have noticed that the scale can be entered when placing the scenery object but not changeable via Edit. Anyway that doesn't explain why the difference in sizing between the object footprint displayed on the ADE screen and in MSFS (if I change the scale to 2.0 when placing the object it looks far too large in ADE).

 

[scruffyduck]

I have noticed that the scale can be entered when placing the scenery object but not changeable via Edit. Anyway that doesn't explain why the difference in sizing between the object footprint displayed on the ADE screen and in MSFS (if I change the scale to 2.0 when placing the object it looks far too large in ADE).

You can edit scale

The size of the object footprint in ADE will change based on the scale setting. Bear in mind that the footprint in ADE is based on generating a top down view of the object, It is done by Arno's code and it may well be that it does not replicate exactly what appears in sim. Different rendering code, engines and projections


I have never worked out how to control slew mode but a search on here or a Google will probably throw something up

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Jon
When those scenery objects are chosen for Add the window which opens shows the scale at 1.0 and the size as 17.45 x 89.11 metres which is about right with the size of the footprint HOWEVER when they are displayed in MSFS they are displayed as a fraction of that size. Consider the following images which has both a dock which shows a size when selected as 17.45 x 89.11 metres AND another dock (different source) which shows a size when selected of just 2.0 X 17.5 metres. In ADE the footprints show about about the correct differences in sizes BUT in MSFS the larger dock doesn't displays about twice the size of the smaller dock yet it is 5 times the size. That is what I am trying to explain] much larger than the smaller dock even though the dimensions suggest it is 5 times as large. Where do those dimensions come from when selecting a library object to add?

 

[scruffyduck]

Footprint dimensions come from the bounding box of an object. How close that is to the physical dimensions depends on how the creator made it. Also some objects have a bounding box that is larger than the physical object. MSFS Street Lamps are a notorious example in that the footprint as generated is many times larger than the actual object

All those triangular shapes are lights. Here is one pulled out of the scenery

I am hoping that the two way editing of alpha 19 will make it easier to understand the correct size of objects. I would tend to rely on the size/shape/position in Dev Mode since that reflects the MSFS rendering engine. This is the apparent bounding box of the lamp with draw detailed footprints turned off in ADE

A bit more reasonable size

In Dev Mode it looks like a street lamp

 

[jgarnold]

I don't think it really has anything to do with the footprint ADE displays which imho displays it quite accurately. I am NOT blaming ADE.
The bounding box of the image must be much larger than the actual object and the object is a fraction of how big it is supposed to be displayed. It is as if the scale is far less that 1.0 even though it is displayed with a scale of 1.0. I can of course increase the scale and it will then display in MSFS accurately but it also will result in the footprint in ADE being disproportional larger and overlapping other objects making placement more difficult.
I have attached the glTF, bin and xml files. Maybe you could try it out and see what I mean. Please note that the dimensions of this object are 6.52 X 75.11 not 17.45 X 89.11 as incorrect stated before however not much different in length.
Could this have been caused during the conversion to glTF (although I have had no similar problems converting other objects)?

 

[jgarnold]

I remembered I did NOT convert these scenery objects to glTF they came from a freeware download from www.flightsim.to web site in the scenery > libraries 'page' and the name is Pier Models - Blender/MSFS.\
Maybe I should attempt to contact the author and ask him what is causing the problem.

 

[scruffyduck]

If you change the scale up then the object in ADE will appear larger. If there is a mismatch between object size in ADE and the sim then this is not going to be helped by changing the scale.

If you have a problem with a third party object or library then the best thing is to contact the auther.

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Jon
I have already left a message via posting a message on the web page where the download comes from (no email address for contact) so I will have to check back on that wen page from time to time to see if I can get an answer. There are also 'blend' files in the same download (Pier_Templates_LP.blend) and I wonder if I need to do something else using Blender (there are NO instructions). There is a folder containing the .glTF, bin and xml files for each model, a texture folder and a Blender folder containing the above file).

Lastly is there a thread to report possible bugs for 18? I have noticed that at times after a Build, and then 'press any key' when it displays 'Copy to Community folder' before I get a chance to select 'Yes' it CTD.
This only seems to happen if I have gone to another session such as to checking my email etc and I have left the (cmd) screen displaying the build and prompting to 'press any key' for some time without actioning it. When I action immediately it never happens.

 

[jgarnold]

Just tried again to rescale the scenery object and 'scale' is not displayed to be changed when I edit the scenery object HOWEVER I noticed in your example it displayed (top left) Library Object and when I edit it displays User Library Object.

 

[scruffyduck]

Click the little arrow symbol to get sub items

Select the sub object and the Scale property is visible to be changed

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Jon.
I think I will give those undersized docks a miss. I did get a reply from the author who simply ststed - Scale it... I've used anything from 1 to 2 as a scaling factor in my sceneries to make it look "as it should" covering piers from default scenery.
Well I removed the dock object then added it using a scale of 3.0. I built, copied to community and checked MSFS It looked reasonably accurate in size but I need the dock to be longer so did a copy object, paste object and moved it to the end of the existing one, build and copy and checked MSFS. The dock appeared as before I added another one ie the second one was not there. I then manually added (not cut and paste) two more well away from the original (not touching) and checked MSFS. Those also did not display. Yes the build was successful - no errors. I even deleted the previously built package before build to ensure it was really built. Whacky!
I hate to think of the time I have wasted trying to use those scenery objects. RIP.
Thanks again for your assistance.

 

[jgarnold]

Bear in mind that the footprint in ADE is based on generating a top down view of the object, It is done by Arno's code and it may well be that it does not replicate exactly what appears in sim

Hello again

Firstly I know that this is not really a concern of your but just wanted to advise what I have found.

I persevered with the dock model as I really like it and have found that not only does the object require a scale of 3.0 to look correct, the foot print is really wacky and the actual object is displayed in MSFS at a place which is not only at one 'end' of where the footprint is displayed in ADE but also to one side. Here is a diagram to explain what I mean (not 100% accurate just to get my point over) - there are two dock objects and the actual docks show approximately where I have placed the red and blue squares in relation to the footprints.

If placing two separate long docks adjacent in ADE they appear in MSFS with a large gap between because of the fact that the actual object is at one end of the footprint.

This makes placing the objects very difficult (note that the square footprint is offset with the rectangular one in order for the other object to appear in the middle. I have never had this type of problem before.

Is it the author who created the object also adds data which is used for how the footprint is displayed? As mentioned above it makes correct placement virtually impossible and so a lot of trial and error is required especially when wanting to make scenery object using more than one actual model (not ADE's fault I know). I have never had this problem with other scenery objects. How do I explain this to the author in case he fixes them?

 

[jgarnold]

soon

 

[scruffyduck]

Sorry John. I have been out of the office - I will take a look

 

[jgarnold]

Sorry this was supposed to be the reply above. I had posted it and needed to remove some incorrect text so in case anyone read it before I had a chance to rephrase it I simply set it to 'Soon'

Well this problem is also with some other scenery objects from a different author.

While all the objects (people) in 'Daves' daves3dpeople look correct the same isn't true of an object of a man talking on his mobile/cell phone in 'Daves' daveslibrary which displays the man twice the height he should be (I added this object adjacent to objects from daves3dpeople and it towers above them). I had to change the scale to 0.5 to display approximately the correct height.
So the docks from his davesseaplanebase library display half the size they should the man (didn't check any other objects) in his daveslibrary display twice the correct size.

How does this happen (scenery objects in a library display twice as large or half as large as they should. Yes I know this is not an ADE issue but it carries on from the creation of this thread for something I thought could have been associated with ADE. I created some simple 3D scenery objects for FSX years ago and didn't have any sizing problems.

Check out the image below showing the double size man (scale 1) together with scenery objects (also scale 1) from a different library but same author.

What other forum might be better to ask this question, Airport Design? I can't see any forums just for scenery objects.

 

[scruffyduck]

Sorry - please remind me if this is related to a particular library from an author or more generally - e.g. with stock objects. I am at the limit of my knowledge here since I don't know how objects work other than at a limited level. There is a section of forums about Asset design which includes objects. You might try asking in 3D Objects General

 

[jgarnold]

Sorry Jon they are from 3rd party scenery objects libraries (not stock) both found at https://www.flightsim.to/ in the scenery > libraries webpage viz Daves Crooked Library and Daves 3D People library. I just noticed that in Model Converter X the 'man talking on mobile/cell phone' also looks much too large (when comparing to other objects in the same library). Obviously a problem and I have 'posted' a message at the web site but whether or not the author understands or not (images can't be posted).
I was mainly interested to know how this can happen especially as most 3rd party scenery objects I have looked at are correct (or close enough). I created a simple 3D scenery object for FSX years ago and it displayed at (roughly) the correct size.

 

[scruffyduck]

I can't answer about size of models. Clearly if the model is mis-sized in MCX then it is the model. I guess some 3D tools have scaling properties which might be set wrongly for certain objects but that is out of the scope of ADE which places objects created by others and reads only basic data about them

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Jon. I just checked the message I left to the author on the download site and he acknowledged it and put it on his list of 'bugs'