-
Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:
- Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
- Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
- Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
- Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
- Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
- Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.
Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.
By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.
Sloped Flatten Blend into FTX EU England Mesh
- Thread starter Ols500
- Start date
- Messages
- 155
- Country
Hi Ollie:
Please refer to my EDITED version of procedures linked below, and let me know when you have completed those steps:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-824993
FYI: I shall edit other content I posted subsequent to that one linked immediately above, as time permits today.
PS: Next you would make sloped / flat surface areas within the CVX vector flatten Polygon perimeter of your project area.
Hope this helps with the learning process.
GaryGB
Please refer to my EDITED version of procedures linked below, and let me know when you have completed those steps:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-824993
FYI: I shall edit other content I posted subsequent to that one linked immediately above, as time permits today.
PS: Next you would make sloped / flat surface areas within the CVX vector flatten Polygon perimeter of your project area.
Hope this helps with the learning process.
GaryGB
Last edited:
Hi Ollie:
I had some time to check in here before the holiday activities begin today, and I see you are off to a good start.
Your screenshot shows an extended perimeter outside of what I assume may otherwise be a focus for this local part of your project area.
Personally, I would be inclined to contain the data set for this local part of your project area within the boundary seen in my previously posted screenshot from SBuilderX, wherein a 'perimeter' for blending a CVX vector sloped / level flatten is depicted as a Line object in Blue, with Red vertices:
NOTE: This local part of the project area is already inset into surrounding terrain in real life, as seen in FSX with the 1 Meter DSM loaded:
MSVE imagery:
Google imagery:
Establishing a perimeter limited to the boundary illustrated above would reduce the complexity of tasks required to blend your flatten surfaces into surrounding terrain.
I also see that your custom photo-real imagery coverage area is limited, and that you are endeavoring to blend the smaller local part of the project area into the surrounding OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures.
IMHO, to be realistic in conveying the soaring experience encountered in a glider flight at Southdown during launch from- / approach to- the airfield at lower Altitudes, one "should" include more of the real life imagery for a larger extent outside the airfield ...as a custom photo-real imagery coverage area.
In FS at lower Altitudes encountered during launch from- / approach to- the Southdown airfield, IMHO, OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures at LOD-15 leave a lot to be desired at only 1.2 Meters per pixel resolution, compared to what would otherwise be seen in the MSVE custom photo-real imagery at LOD-18 and 15cm per pixel (8 times higher resolution than OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures).
Furthermore, the Google imagery can be individually applied to the terrain at corrected coordinates, and on tops of scenery objects, to provide an even greater amount of visual detail (32 times higher resolution than OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures).
Part of the visual cues used by a pilot in a glider on approach to gauge distance from the ground is not just the aircraft "gauges" themselves, but the perceived details and sizes of objects on the ground below as one descends; having those visual cues rendered in greater detail would IMHO be an essential part of accurately simulating flight at Southdown.
Expanding your coverage extent with MSVE imagery should not be difficult to achieve, as SDK Resample can make individual custom photo-real imagery BGLs up to 2 GB in size, if one assembles source data downloaded via SBuilderX as (2) 1 GB segments in a edited *.INF file.
Additionally, one "should" be able to save a lot of challenging work implementing accurate sloped / level flatten terrain surfaces in the current local project area, as well as at the Storrington oil pumping station next to the airfield hangar area, by using the 1 Meter terrain mesh which I have made available to you in small segments as a "test of concept".
I will have more info on how that final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh for your project area might be used in the near future.
BTW: In a new PM, I have linked you to a expanded version of DSM terrain mesh which now also covers the full extent of your airfield area.
A expanded version of DTM terrain mesh which also covers the full extent of your airfield area will follow soon.
I'll check back later as time permits, to see how you are progressing.
GaryGB
I had some time to check in here before the holiday activities begin today, and I see you are off to a good start.
Your screenshot shows an extended perimeter outside of what I assume may otherwise be a focus for this local part of your project area.
Personally, I would be inclined to contain the data set for this local part of your project area within the boundary seen in my previously posted screenshot from SBuilderX, wherein a 'perimeter' for blending a CVX vector sloped / level flatten is depicted as a Line object in Blue, with Red vertices:
NOTE: This local part of the project area is already inset into surrounding terrain in real life, as seen in FSX with the 1 Meter DSM loaded:
MSVE imagery:
Google imagery:
Establishing a perimeter limited to the boundary illustrated above would reduce the complexity of tasks required to blend your flatten surfaces into surrounding terrain.
I also see that your custom photo-real imagery coverage area is limited, and that you are endeavoring to blend the smaller local part of the project area into the surrounding OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures.
IMHO, to be realistic in conveying the soaring experience encountered in a glider flight at Southdown during launch from- / approach to- the airfield at lower Altitudes, one "should" include more of the real life imagery for a larger extent outside the airfield ...as a custom photo-real imagery coverage area.
In FS at lower Altitudes encountered during launch from- / approach to- the Southdown airfield, IMHO, OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures at LOD-15 leave a lot to be desired at only 1.2 Meters per pixel resolution, compared to what would otherwise be seen in the MSVE custom photo-real imagery at LOD-18 and 15cm per pixel (8 times higher resolution than OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures).
Furthermore, the Google imagery can be individually applied to the terrain at corrected coordinates, and on tops of scenery objects, to provide an even greater amount of visual detail (32 times higher resolution than OrbX FTX EU England "artificial" land class textures).
Part of the visual cues used by a pilot in a glider on approach to gauge distance from the ground is not just the aircraft "gauges" themselves, but the perceived details and sizes of objects on the ground below as one descends; having those visual cues rendered in greater detail would IMHO be an essential part of accurately simulating flight at Southdown.
Expanding your coverage extent with MSVE imagery should not be difficult to achieve, as SDK Resample can make individual custom photo-real imagery BGLs up to 2 GB in size, if one assembles source data downloaded via SBuilderX as (2) 1 GB segments in a edited *.INF file.
Additionally, one "should" be able to save a lot of challenging work implementing accurate sloped / level flatten terrain surfaces in the current local project area, as well as at the Storrington oil pumping station next to the airfield hangar area, by using the 1 Meter terrain mesh which I have made available to you in small segments as a "test of concept".
I will have more info on how that final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh for your project area might be used in the near future.
BTW: In a new PM, I have linked you to a expanded version of DSM terrain mesh which now also covers the full extent of your airfield area.
A expanded version of DTM terrain mesh which also covers the full extent of your airfield area will follow soon.
I'll check back later as time permits, to see how you are progressing.
GaryGB
Attachments
Last edited:
- Messages
- 155
- Country
Hi Gary,
I was wondering instead of just flattering this specific area, I could flatten the whole area which I am placing custom objects on.
How do I use this to flatten the terrain?
Thanks, Ollie
I was wondering instead of just flattering this specific area, I could flatten the whole area which I am placing custom objects on.
How do I use this to flatten the terrain?
Thanks, Ollie
Hi Ollie:
I am posting these quotes as a review of the steps required to begin making "level" surface areas for 3D object placement, within a context of adjacent sloped surfaces required to blend a CVX vector flatten into the surrounding underlying terrain provided by any terrain mesh, whether OrbX FTX EU England or a 1 Meter DTM which I could provide:
I am ready, willing and able to assist you with implementing realistic rendition of the terrain at / near Southdown.
If, after a review of the steps required to make the local terrain more realistic as I described, you are not yet ready, willing and able to implement a realistic rendition of the terrain at / near Southdown, feel free to exercise your option to create your scenery as you prefer.
FYI: My available free time is rather limited, and when I do allocate time to helping others with learning how to make FS scenery, my personal preference and priority is to assist them with achieving a more realistic result.
As you may know, current SDK methods available for MSFS (and the ESP version of FSX licensed to L-M which in an adapted form has become known as Prepar3D) ...continues to require that all terrain surfaces such as RWYs, Taxiways, Aprons etc. must be "level" where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed.
However, this does not require that an entire airfield and the terrain for Kilometers surrounding the airfield ...be "flat" and "level".
Personally, I prefer that that all other terrain outside areas where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed, should match the real world within a reasonable degree of accuracy, and I would not be inclined to advocate that anyone use a massive 1-piece Airport Boundary Polygon (aka "ABP") CVX vector flatten to make an entire airfield and terrain for Kilometers surrounding the airfield ..."flat" and "level".
But please understand that in advocating this approach here, I am still also attempting to assist you with the creation of local flatten surfaces that are indeed "level" ...which you wanted to have in areas where you intend place 3D scenery objects.
In order for those local flatten surfaces that are "level", to blend into the surrounding terrain without objectionable anomalies, they must be implemented as a part of a CVX vector flatten object TIN, containing both "level" flatten surfaces and "sloped" flatten surfaces.
If you do have a genuine interest in proceeding beyond creation of a single 1-piece "level" flatten rather than ex: several smaller flattens containing both "level" flatten surfaces and "sloped" flatten surfaces that allow them to be blended into surrounding / underlying terrain mesh, please let me know when you are ready to proceed.
I would then be glad to assist you in making local flatten surfaces that are indeed "level" ...where you intend place 3D scenery objects.
BTW: If you load the terrain mesh demos I linked you to, you should be able to slew over that ground surface and see for yourself that the terrain is already nearly perfectly "level" (+/- within a few inches) underneath locations where you might place 3D scenery objects.
While it is possible to modify the terrain mesh with a CVX vector flatten to ensure local surfaces where you might place 3D scenery objects are perfectly flat and "level", it is only required that one do so ...where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed.
As I mentioned previously, if you were to slightly extend the base of such 3D objects and sink them slightly into the terrain, you would be successful in achieving a satisfactory display of those objects via the same SDK methods used by FS developers for over 20 years.
Please be aware that regardless of whether you opted to place such 3D objects via SDK BGLComp Scenery library methods or SDK Autogen Annotator methods for use in P3Dv4.x, you could still have the bases of those objects sink slightly into the terrain without imposing any disruption of normal shadow display, by simply adjusting the position of the 3D object's central datum (aka "Origin of XYZ Axes") in Sketchup, which AFAIK, will then be interpreted by the FS run time rendering engine as the "base" position ...for purposes of object placement on the ground surface.
Feel free to inquire further if you would like to learn more about these options, as it would greatly reduce your work load for creating a more realistic rendition of the ground surface Southdown when otherwise implemented via a CVX vector slopped / level flatten TIN.
[EDITED]
This is especially true if one considers the TIN complexity otherwise involved in rendering a detailed ground shape in this local area:
[END_EDIT]
Otherwise, if you have an enduring and compelling reason that you believe makes it a preference or requirement that terrain surfaces underneath locations where you might place 3D scenery objects be perfectly "level", please be so kind as to explain that for me in a reply here, and I shall endeavor to offer what might be further and ongoing- or final- helpful input.
GaryGB
I am posting these quotes as a review of the steps required to begin making "level" surface areas for 3D object placement, within a context of adjacent sloped surfaces required to blend a CVX vector flatten into the surrounding underlying terrain provided by any terrain mesh, whether OrbX FTX EU England or a 1 Meter DTM which I could provide:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825088
Please refer to my EDITED version of procedures linked below, and let me know when you have completed those steps:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-824993
I am ready, willing and able to assist you with implementing realistic rendition of the terrain at / near Southdown.
If, after a review of the steps required to make the local terrain more realistic as I described, you are not yet ready, willing and able to implement a realistic rendition of the terrain at / near Southdown, feel free to exercise your option to create your scenery as you prefer.
FYI: My available free time is rather limited, and when I do allocate time to helping others with learning how to make FS scenery, my personal preference and priority is to assist them with achieving a more realistic result.
As you may know, current SDK methods available for MSFS (and the ESP version of FSX licensed to L-M which in an adapted form has become known as Prepar3D) ...continues to require that all terrain surfaces such as RWYs, Taxiways, Aprons etc. must be "level" where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed.
However, this does not require that an entire airfield and the terrain for Kilometers surrounding the airfield ...be "flat" and "level".
Personally, I prefer that that all other terrain outside areas where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed, should match the real world within a reasonable degree of accuracy, and I would not be inclined to advocate that anyone use a massive 1-piece Airport Boundary Polygon (aka "ABP") CVX vector flatten to make an entire airfield and terrain for Kilometers surrounding the airfield ..."flat" and "level".
But please understand that in advocating this approach here, I am still also attempting to assist you with the creation of local flatten surfaces that are indeed "level" ...which you wanted to have in areas where you intend place 3D scenery objects.
In order for those local flatten surfaces that are "level", to blend into the surrounding terrain without objectionable anomalies, they must be implemented as a part of a CVX vector flatten object TIN, containing both "level" flatten surfaces and "sloped" flatten surfaces.
If you do have a genuine interest in proceeding beyond creation of a single 1-piece "level" flatten rather than ex: several smaller flattens containing both "level" flatten surfaces and "sloped" flatten surfaces that allow them to be blended into surrounding / underlying terrain mesh, please let me know when you are ready to proceed.
I would then be glad to assist you in making local flatten surfaces that are indeed "level" ...where you intend place 3D scenery objects.
BTW: If you load the terrain mesh demos I linked you to, you should be able to slew over that ground surface and see for yourself that the terrain is already nearly perfectly "level" (+/- within a few inches) underneath locations where you might place 3D scenery objects.
While it is possible to modify the terrain mesh with a CVX vector flatten to ensure local surfaces where you might place 3D scenery objects are perfectly flat and "level", it is only required that one do so ...where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed.
As I mentioned previously, if you were to slightly extend the base of such 3D objects and sink them slightly into the terrain, you would be successful in achieving a satisfactory display of those objects via the same SDK methods used by FS developers for over 20 years.
Please be aware that regardless of whether you opted to place such 3D objects via SDK BGLComp Scenery library methods or SDK Autogen Annotator methods for use in P3Dv4.x, you could still have the bases of those objects sink slightly into the terrain without imposing any disruption of normal shadow display, by simply adjusting the position of the 3D object's central datum (aka "Origin of XYZ Axes") in Sketchup, which AFAIK, will then be interpreted by the FS run time rendering engine as the "base" position ...for purposes of object placement on the ground surface.
Feel free to inquire further if you would like to learn more about these options, as it would greatly reduce your work load for creating a more realistic rendition of the ground surface Southdown when otherwise implemented via a CVX vector slopped / level flatten TIN.
[EDITED]
This is especially true if one considers the TIN complexity otherwise involved in rendering a detailed ground shape in this local area:
[END_EDIT]
Otherwise, if you have an enduring and compelling reason that you believe makes it a preference or requirement that terrain surfaces underneath locations where you might place 3D scenery objects be perfectly "level", please be so kind as to explain that for me in a reply here, and I shall endeavor to offer what might be further and ongoing- or final- helpful input.
GaryGB
Attachments
Last edited:
- Messages
- 155
- Country
Hi Gary,
This would be wonderful, I used the wrong terminology, when I said flatten the whole airfield I meant use realistic terrain. There are slopes are the airport its just when I place objects on the slopes they glitch and display level with no bank meaning the object glitches into the slope. Can i realistically implement terrain for south down with your help ( you have been amazing so far ) then place the objects so they will automatically adjust there bank to the slope or they are just placed level with the slope.
Thank you Ollie.
s it would greatly reduce your work load for creating a more realistic rendition of Southdown.
This would be wonderful, I used the wrong terminology, when I said flatten the whole airfield I meant use realistic terrain. There are slopes are the airport its just when I place objects on the slopes they glitch and display level with no bank meaning the object glitches into the slope. Can i realistically implement terrain for south down with your help ( you have been amazing so far
) then place the objects so they will automatically adjust there bank to the slope or they are just placed level with the slope. Thank you Ollie.
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825208
Hi Gary,
This would be wonderful, I used the wrong terminology, when I said flatten the whole airfield I meant use realistic terrain.
There are slopes are the airport its just when I place objects on the slopes they glitch and display level with no bank meaning the object glitches into the slope.
Can i realistically implement terrain for south down with your help ( you have been amazing so far
Thank you Ollie.
You must enable Draw Call Batching in MCX before importing / exporting 3D scenery objects, so you will not need to worry about objects placed via SimDirector aligning themselves onto the underlying ground surface with Pitch or Bank attributes, as Draw Call Batching disables display with any Pitch or Bank attributes ...even if SimDirector attempts to impose those attributes via the BGLComp XML placement code.
If for some reason you do want to place 3D scenery objects via SimDirector so that they do align themselves onto the underlying ground surface with Pitch or Bank attributes, you must disable Draw Call Batching in MCX before importing / exporting such3D scenery objects.
What 3D scenery objects do you want to display with the bases aligned onto an underlying ground surface with Pitch or Bank attributes ?
GaryGB
- Messages
- 155
- Country
Ok so In MCX I have
Draw call batching set to true
Draw Call batching working LOD set to false.
Is this ok if I want draw call baching enabled?
- Messages
- 155
- Country
What 3D scenery objects do you want to display with the bases aligned onto an underlying ground surface with Pitch or Bank attributes ?
I just want to place objects onto the ground so if there is a slope it will align its self with the slope, not just ground level so it glitches through the slope.
Yes.
This was previously discussed in more detail ...here:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-824893
...and here:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/glider-accessories.445461/post-823419
GaryGB
Please post a screenshot showing an example of what you want to do when placing 3D scenery objects, and please explain why.
GaryGB
The slope 'shape' you are seeing is the 5 Meter FTX EU Europe terrain mesh, not the 1 Meter terrain mesh I provided you with.
Please review my post above (which now has an additional screenshot) explaining how you may be able to greatly reduce your work load by using a highly detailed terrain mesh ...such as those small demo segments that I have already provided you with as "worked examples".
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825207
Regardless of how you place that particular 3D scenery object, I am compelled to draw your attention to the fact that it is:
* Not modeled with the correct physical height compared to real life (it is actually at least 2 Feet or more in height relative to local ground)
* Sunken into the ground, and therefore has a depth which extends into the ground in real life
...as previously illustrated here:
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/glider-accessories.445461/post-823847
BTW: If the above example 3D object is placed in alignment with the local ground slope, and not "level", its 3D model surface 'normals' will not allow a Hydro attribute of specular reflection to be accurately rendered in FS at run time when a user aircraft flies over / near them in your scenery, should you opt to place either a Hydro polygon, or a 3D MDL AttachPoint Platform 'Hydro' surface texture.
I am mentioning that as a suggestion for more realistically adding a visual asset to your scenery package to enhance the flying experience in the FS 3D world, since these are technically 'clarifier' tanks which have a "hydro" surface in real life, and which may reflect sunlight at specific angles relative to the Sun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarifier
https://www.google.com/search?biw=9.......1..gws-wiz-img.......0i8i7i30.lp4OfphOEQk
Those objects occupy a significant position on the flight path at Southdown, and IMHO, merit a more realistic depiction within your scenery.
BTW: Placing them as scenery library objects via BGLComp will still incur a performance penalty even though Draw Call Batching is enabled.
Placing them as Autogen annotations improves rendering performance, but automatically disables any Pitch or Bank, as Autogen is placed perpendicular to the 3D object Z-axis at its local position on the surface of the Earth's globe in the FS 3D world terrain model, in order to maximize Draw Call Batching and rendering performance for entire LOD-13 quad areas of Autogen object annotation.
But certainly we have discussed this aspect of your scenery project to the point that some readers of this thread might be inclined to wonder why so much time is being spent on tanks of "sludge" (or some other expletive !
).GaryGB
Attachments
Last edited:
- Messages
- 155
- Country
The slope 'shape' you are seeing is the 5 Meter FTX EU Europe terrain mesh, not the 1 Meter terrain mesh I provided you with.
Hi Gary, when I enable this via the scenery library, I get lots of spikes:
So if I am understanding this correctly, enabling this will reduce my work-load on placing objects?
I am reading your posts and trying to understand as much as I can, but to be honest its quite complicated stuff and I am very confused at the moment. All I know is:
a) Create a realistic version of SDGCs terrain
b) Place objects on that realistic terrain.
To achieve 'a' I need to use this 1meter mesh?
To achieve 'b' I need to extend the base?
Thanks, Ollie.
Last edited:
As I explained previously, those are only small segments intended strictly as a "test of concept", and to allow measuring AGL height of objects such as roof peaks etc. for your convenience when 3D modeling visual assets for your scenery project.
Additionally, you are using a DSM (aka "Surface") model terrain mesh in the screenshot above; a DTM shows just the ground shape itself.
I also made it clear via PM that a final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh would replace all those "Alpha build" demos in the future.
Regarding the tanks discussed here, AFAIK, a LiDAR GIS application did not accurately detect actual DSM / DTM AGL tank wall heights.
Yes.
Yes.
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825223
b) Place objects on that realistic terrain.
To achieve 'b' I need to extend the base?
Yes.
Adjust 3D model textures to accommodate increased tank height (no manual re-texturing is required with default "self-tiling" Materials).
GaryGB
Last edited: