Sloped Flatten Blend into FTX EU England Mesh

#81
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825225

Hi Gary,

Nice :D:D, so how do I proceed with realistically creating SDGCs terrain?

Thanks, Ollie.
I would say, first slew all over the airport to see for yourself that a ground surface can be created for you by a 1 Meter terrain mesh. :wizard:


All you may need to do now, IMHO, is focus on making terrain textures to be draped- or 3D models to be placed- onto / into the terrain mesh.


FYI: Elevation data and ground shape in the final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh is likely to be identical to elevation data and ground shape of all those "Alpha build" demos in the areas where you place 3D scenery objects, but it shall be blended with no spikes / pits / cliffs etc.

An exception, of course, would be areas where you wish to modify the terrain mesh by using a CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL for RWYs, Taxiways, Aprons etc. that the SDK requires to be "level" where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed (if any are to be used). ;)


In SBuilderX you can assign a "Constant" Altitude to all vertices of a selected flatten Polygon to make it a "level" surface in FS at run time:

See: SBuilderX Help File topic...

"Working with Points, Lines and Polygons

Set Altitude

Vector Lines always cling to the altitude mesh and you cannot modify their height. But, you can set the altitude of textured Lines, of Lines of Objects, and of certain Polygons (Airport Flattens and Hydro Polygons). Right-click on the Line segment or on the edge of the Polygon and choose Set Altitude from the menu - make your changes in the Altitude dialogue:

1562357709764.png


1562357724082.png


In the case of a Hydro Polygon, you can also determine the slope."


NOTE: Both Hydro Polygons and Airport Boundary Polygons require an Altitude assigned to them, or they will default to 0 Meters AMSL. :alert:

Hope this helps. :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#82
Hi Ollie:

FYI: Here is an example of modeling in Sketchup using imported 3D DXF Contours of LiDAR DSM data exported from a GIS application: :idea:



[EDITED]

Geo-location of the 3D model is set to coordinates in a GIS application, and/or by alignment to SBuilderX vertices derived via FSUIPC.

NOTE: A 2D version of such DXF Contours of LiDAR DSM data exported with 3D data as a Surfer *.BLN file from a GIS application can also be Appended to SBuilderX as a guide for positioning vertices of TIN surfaces by relative Altitude within the perimeter of the intended CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL.

The example contours I linked you to which had showed in RED after Appended to SBuilderX earlier in this discussion, was such an object:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/page-3#post-825008


Although these are options which might otherwise be used to create TIN surfaces by relative Altitude within the perimeter of an intended CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL as I explained above, it may be much more practical to use the high resolution 1 Meter LiDAR DTM terrain mesh as a base for the ground in your scenery, as it would save you a great amount of work as seen in my screenshot edit added here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825207


PS: I understand that you have also previously worked on a prototype for a 'G-Poly' of the landing area at Southdown, which, may require you to make some adjustments in SBuilderX for an airfield flatten to blend the edges of that flat 3D object into the surrounding terrain mesh via TIN surfaces within a CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...age-into-ade-as-a-texture.444890/#post-817791


If and when you may wish to implement blending of the edges of your flat 3D G-Poly object into the surrounding terrain mesh via TIN surfaces within a CVX vector sloped / level airfield flatten BGL, that would be a separate topic which merits its own thread. ;)


The same would be true for creating flat and level surfaces in areas where you wish to modify the terrain mesh by using a CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL for RWYs, Taxiways, Aprons etc. that the SDK requires to be "level" where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed (if any are to be used). :pushpin:


3D modeling of buildings and other visual assets for your scenery project would best be discussed via separate threads in the Sketchup forum:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forums/sketchup.112/


Feel free to let me know if you have any further questions on the work-flow I have described for you above. :)

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 

Attachments

Last edited:
#83
Hi Gary,

Sorry I couldn't reply yesterday I was at the club ;)

An exception, of course, would be areas where you wish to modify the terrain mesh by using a CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL for
RWYs, Taxiways, Aprons etc. that the SDK requires to be "level" where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed (if any are to be used). ;)
I am not planning to add any traffic, but only a runway.

I will have a go at 'points lines and polygons' now.

thanks, Ollie.
 
#84
FYI: Elevation data and ground shape in the final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh is likely to be identical to elevation data and ground shape of all those "Alpha build" demos in the areas where you place 3D scenery objects, but it shall be blended with no spikes / pits / cliffs etc.
Ok, so the final version is that available? :)

Ollie
 
#85
Hi Gary,

Sorry I couldn't reply yesterday I was at the club ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825227

FYI: Elevation data and ground shape in the final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh is likely to be identical to elevation data and ground shape of all those "Alpha build" demos in the areas where you place 3D scenery objects, but it shall be blended with no spikes / pits / cliffs etc.

An exception, of course, would be areas where you wish to modify the terrain mesh by using a CVX vector sloped / level flatten BGL for
RWYs, Taxiways, Aprons etc. that the SDK requires to be "level" where AI traffic / Ground Vehicles will be displayed (if any are to be used). ;)

I am not planning to add any traffic, but only a runway.

I will have a go at 'points lines and polygons' now.

thanks, Ollie.

Ok, so the final version is that available? :)

Ollie
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825138

...one "should" be able to save a lot of challenging work implementing accurate sloped / level flatten terrain surfaces in the current local project area, as well as at the Storrington oil pumping station next to the airfield hangar area, by using the 1 Meter terrain mesh which I have made available to you in small segments as a "test of concept".

I will have more info on how that final 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh for your project area might be used in the near future. ;)


BTW: In a new PM, I have linked you to a expanded version of DSM terrain mesh which now also covers the full extent of your airfield area.

A expanded version of DTM terrain mesh which also covers the full extent of your airfield area will follow soon.

"Soon" would best describe availability for a Beta, and then, a 'release candidate' (aka "RC") ...of a local 1 Meter DTM terrain mesh. ;)

It also needs to be 'blended' into underlying OrbX FTX EU England 5 Meter terrain mesh as a local CVX vector sloped / level flatten does. :pushpin:

[EDITED]

However, you can be assured that it is OK to begin basing your local Southdown scenery on the elevation data set provided by the 1 Meter terrain mesh which I have already made available to you in small segments as a "test of concept", since I inspected that to ensure there are no spikes / pits / cliffs etc. ...within the Southdown aerodrome and its immediately adjacent perimeter areas.

Based on inspection of the "lay of the land" outside the Southdown aerodrome and its immediately adjacent perimeter areas, a Beta and RC version of the planned final LiDAR 1 Meter terrain mesh need not extend too far beyond those areas, so that mesh will likely be trimmed and blended for an extent of coverage that allows OrbX FTX EU England to provide 5 Meter surrounding ground surface details.

[END_EDIT]

I'll keep you posted here as to when a link is made available via PM for new file to download and test. :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#87
Hi Ollie:

I replied to your new PM, and I shall await your reply with the latter pending questions to be posted here in the public forum.. :)

GaryGB
 
#88
Ah ok Gary :)

So I have installed the new file you gave me, works well :D

I think I need to apply a flattering for the field as my aircraft bounces a lot, also I need to place the objects down onto the terrain (sewage area), so can I just place them directly ontop with ADE or do I need to 'extend the base'.

Thanks, Ollie.
 
#89
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825755

I think I need to apply a flattering for the field as my aircraft bounces a lot

Although it is possible you may have inherited some actual bumpiness within the LiDAR data set for the ground surface at Southdown, before making a 'flatten, first try to apply a 'smooth' surface attribute to the terrain area where user piloted aircraft will be navigating.

Is the ground surface there in real life something other than a grass type ex: farm field ? :scratchch


This is more commonly resolved with the airport BGL via a Taxiway path with a 'paved' surface attribute.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/hardening-photoimage-surfaces.18345/


However, if you wish to cover a larger area, there is a legacy format methods which can be used via creation of an Apron polygon that can be converted via SCASM / ASM code into a 'smooth' surface attribute polygon for the terrain area where user piloted aircraft will be navigating; this may- or may not- still work in P3Dv4.4. :scratchch

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX#XML_Apron_to_SurfaceType_converter



NOTE: Use of a custom photo-real imagery land class texture BGL will by default also report an un-paved surface to the FS rendering engine, with the result that the user piloted aircraft "GroundRoll" Effect displayed by its wheels is Dust / Dirt.


If you apply a 'smooth' surface attribute polygon to the terrain area where user piloted aircraft will be navigating, this will stop the user piloted aircraft "GroundRoll" Effect displayed by its wheels of Dust / Dirt, and to instead display GroundRoll" Effects associated with a paved surface, so you must decide if this will be acceptable.


BTW: A "Bituminous" airport object surface type is not considered 'paved' by FS aircraft, and although it may seem 'somewhat' smooth, you may see a lot of aircraft undercarriage movement depending on how the animations were made for some user aircraft 3D models.

In these cases, one should consider changing the object surface from Bituminous to a true paved surface such as concrete or asphalt.

NOTE: These default airport object textures are concealed underneath your top-level custom photo-real imagery land class textures.


https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825755

...also, I need to place the objects down onto the terrain (sewage area); so can I just place them directly on top with ADE or do I need to 'extend the base' ?

Thanks, Ollie.
Assuming you made a 3D model true to its real world height, you may not need to extend its base at all, or perhaps a max of 6 Inches.

You can place scenery library objects via BGLComp placement XML methods as you can via Autogen methods on any terrain mesh when:

* The base of the 3D object is the Datum for the "Origin of Axes" using the 0 Meters AGL placement option.

...allowing FS to always place such objects at ground level on top of the terrain mesh


In the case of 3D objects which are not placed using the 0 Meters AGL placement option by ex: sinking their extended base into the ground, one must use a negative Meters value AGL, for FS to be able to place such objects relative to ground level with the desired portion of the 3D object being displayed on top of the terrain mesh.


This option is only available when placing scenery library objects via BGLComp placement XML methods on any terrain mesh in P3Dv4.x


To do this with placement via Autogen methods on any terrain mesh, those 3D objects must be pre-modeled with their Datum for the "Origin of Axes" at a vertical position that matches the intended ground surface level in FS.


Let me know how this works for you. :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#90
There is a farm field :)

However, if you wish to cover a larger area, there is a legacy format methods which can be used via creation of an Apron polygon that can be converted via SCASM / ASM code into a 'smooth' surface attribute polygon for the terrain area where user piloted aircraft will be navigating; this may- or may not- still work in P3Dv4.4. :scratchch
This sounds good... Can you explain more to me later about how to get this to work (XML file and SCA files)


You can place scenery library objects via BGLComp placement XML methods
Sorry, I don't know how this works, I only know about ADE for placing objects.

Thank you, Ollie.
 
#91
Hi Ollie:

MCX, ObjPlacer XML, SBuilderX, ADE, Instant Scenery, SimDirector, WhisPlacer etc. all use BGLComp XML placement methods to place 3D scenery library objects.

That method of BGLComp XML placement methods is to be distinguished from Autogen XML placement methods, which is more FPS efficient when there are numerous and/or repetitive 3D objects such as buildings and trees etc. to be placed within a scenery area. ;)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#93
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-825777

However, if you wish to cover a larger area, there is a legacy format methods which can be used via creation of an Apron polygon that can be converted via SCASM / ASM code into a 'smooth' surface attribute polygon for the terrain area where user piloted aircraft will be navigating; this may- or may not- still work in P3Dv4.4. :scratchch

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX#XML_Apron_to_SurfaceType_converter

This sounds good... Can you explain more to me later about how to get this to work (XML file and SCA files)
Hi Ollie:

Make a Copy of your existing "SDGC.bgl" airport under a new name ex: SDG_ADEX_ADE_Apron_Only.

[EDITED]

CAVEAT: Keep this copied BGL in a "work" folder which is not set active in the FS Scenery Library GUI so that it is not loaded by FS.

[END_EDIT]

Launch ADE > Open Airport From BGL > Browse > Open ex: SDG_ADEX_ADE_Apron_Only airport BGL

Delete the GP Scenery Object and Tower

Draw an Apron Polygon on top of the RWY Poly

Delete the RWY Poly (...but keep the new Apron)

Save As new *.AD4 project file under a new name ex: SDG_ADEX_ADE_Apron_Only.AD4

ADE Menu > File > Compile Airport (Compile Options dialog opens)

Compile Options dialog > click: More Options [>>>] button > (More Options child dialog opens)

More Options child dialog > Compile > tick: With Project File

More Options child dialog > Save XML > tick: With Project File

More Options child dialog > Compile Separate Airport and Object BGL files > check: checkbox

Click [Close] button

Back in Compile Options dialog > click: [Compile] button

You should now have a source ex: SDG_ADEX_ADE_Apron_Only.XML file to use with MCX

MCX > Special Tools > XML Apron to SurfaceType converter

XML file: Browse / select ex: [path]\SDG_ADEX_ADE_Apron_Only.xml / click: [Open] button

SCA file: < automatically filled in MCX with ex: [path]\sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.sca >

Click: [Convert] button

You should now have a compiled SCASM / ASM ex: sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.BGL file

Copy / Paste ex: sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.BGL file into SDGC airport \Scenery sub-folder


Test functionality in P3Dv4.5 to see if this legacy BGL compiler format still works for a non-G-Poly object,


Let me know how this works for you. :)

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#94
Hi Gary, I only see a "sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.sca " not a "sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.bgl".

Am I doing something wrong :O

Thanks, Ollie.
 
#95
Hi Ollie:

If the *.SCA source file ex:

[path]\sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.sca

... does not automatically compile to a BGL via:

MCX > Special Tools > XML Apron to SurfaceType converter

...as described above, you can:

Copy [SBuilderX install path]\Tools\SCASM.exe into the same folder as ex:

[path]\sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.sca

...then drag-and-drop that sdg_adex_ade_apron_only_surfacetype.sca file onto SCASM.exe to compile it.

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#96
Hi Gary,

I don't see any change on my aircraft (bouncing still occurs) :idea:

I really really don't want to sound rude, (totally my fault), all I want to do is place objects on the surface (even if there is a slope) and it place level with the slope, IMHO I don't want to waste your time :) This is probably one of the longest threads here lol!
level.JPG


Thanks, Ollie.
 
#97
Hi Ollie:

[EDITED]

If you would like to troubleshoot the ground surface smoothing issue, you will need to attach a ZIP containing your *.XML and *.SCA source files along with the resulting *.BGL compiled by SCASM.exe, so that they can be examined and tested at run time in FSX, and P3Dv4.5 by someone one who actually has P3Dv4.5 ...and is also ready / willing / able to participate in that task.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...d-into-ftx-eu-england-mesh.445544/post-826139

I really really don't want to sound rude, (totally my fault), all I want to do is place objects on the surface (even if there is a slope) and it place (it ?) level with the slope, IMHO I don't want to waste your time :)

I have already explained your options for how to configure MCX prior to import / export of custom 3D scenery objects to allow placement as scenery library objects by P3D SimDirector:

* Parallel to the existing horizontal ground surface of local terrain (whether sloped or not)

...or:

* Level in perpendicular alignment with the local vertical axis of the FS 3D world.

Please note the context within which the term 'Level' applies in the FS 3D world is the same as applies in the real world. ;)


Are you still uncertain as to what that work-flow involves, and are you requesting further explanation of your options ? :scratchch


Please state which type of scenery object placement is proving problematic- or objectionable- to you:

* your own custom 3D scenery library objects ?

...or:

* default FS scenery library objects ?


FYI: If you use SimDirector to place your own custom 3D scenery library objects, they will end up parallel to the existing local terrain surface (whether sloped or not) ...if you configured MCX to allow that prior to import / export.

If you use ADE to place your own custom 3D scenery library objects, they will NOT end up parallel to the existing local terrain surface (whether sloped or not) ...regardless of whether you configured MCX to allow Pitch or Bank ...prior to import / export of your own custom 3D scenery library objects.

The reason for this is that SimDirector is automatically inserting Pitch and Bank parameter values into the BGLComp XML placement source code, which after compiled to a BGL, then is obeyed by the FS run time rendering engine.

However, ADE does NOT do that (...unless you manually insert Pitch and Bank parameter values via the ADE GUI).

AFAIK, no other BGLComp XML scenery library object placement utility automatically inserts Pitch and Bank parameter values, and this may be because developers of those FS utilities found that placing such objects out of perpendicular alignment with the local vertical axis of the FS 3D world may adversely impact run time rendering performance. :alert:


One might wonder what the L-M P3D developer was thinking when this IMHO, currently 'mis-directed' replacement for FSX / ESP SDK Object Placement Tool (aka "OPT") now called "SimDirector" was coded, as it is automatically inserting Pitch and Bank parameter values into the BGLComp XML placement source code ...which IMHO technically causes rendering performance issues ...and digressions from optimal FS development practices such as discussed in this latter series of posts. :banghead:

https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6308&t=125001



BTW: Bearing in mind that we are initially discussing BGLComp XML scenery library object placement (which is inherently already less FPS efficient than Autogen placement methods), IIUC, this rendering performance factor imposed by 3D objects using Pitch and Bank is one of the reasons Autogen placement in P3D requires 3D scenery objects to have Draw Call Batching enabled ...which DISABLES Pitch and Bank.

Autogen placement in P3D also requires that such objects are only placed onto local terrain with their 3D model bases Level in perpendicular alignment with the local vertical axis of the FS 3D world ...and NOT parallel to the local terrain..

Autogen placement also requires that 3D objects already be in a pre-allocated fixed size within the MDL file, as the run time rendering optimizations for Autogen are not intended to perform dynamic 'scaling' of scenery library objects.

For similar reasons, Autogen placement is not intended to perform dynamic object 'axis re-alignment' in order to accommodate Pitch and Bank parameter values:

* It 'costs' too much FS scenery rendering time and resources to incorporate those tyes of "3D scenery transformations" at run time, because it would adversely impact performance and FPS. :teacher:


I agree that this thread is significantly longer than one typically would see at FSDeveloper forums ...although there are numerous exceptions which can be cited for unusually long threads which have occurred here in the past. :stirthepo


So, to keep this thread "on topic" (and 'shorter'), it would be best that you plan to open separate new threads located within more specifically-related sub-forums, for any issues not specifically related to the subject of this thread. :pushpin:

AFAIK, the specific topic which "should" be the focus of discussion in this thread is the work-flow to create and blend a sloped flatten into FTX EU England mesh. :)

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#99
FYI: If you use SimDirector to place your own custom 3D scenery library objects, they will end up parallel to the existing local terrain surface (whether sloped or not) ...if you configured MCX to allow that prior to import / export.
Ok Gary I will just use simdirector thanks for your help, Ollie. :)
 
Top