The break we have been looking for?

Status
Not open for further replies.

MOUSY

Resource contributor
#2
Hope I can get a copy soon enough to develop my skills further. The potential in this seems amazing.
 

Heretic

Resource contributor
#3
I just hope that P3D is *so* good that just about everone of that dumb "[high end payware product] or bust" and "I want FSXI!" crowd will migrate over.
 
#4
Even if it does live up to our best expectations, migrating over will be the the issue. I certainly can't afford to.

Most of my payware fleet isn't P3d compatible, and to date it hasn't offered enough over stock fsx to warrant transition.

Plus the license is a concern for many....

Still, it does sound great.
 

n4gix

Resource contributor
#5
Without getting into a long dissertation regarding the "license," I will only say this:

Wes Bard of Prepar3D wrote a few days ago, that "...anyone may buy Prepar3D..."

So, unless an individual honestly feels that they are not an integral part of that meta-group known as "anyone," there should no longer be any concern whatsoever.
 

hcornea

Resource contributor
#7
If I recall correctly,

When Microsoft licensed ESP to LM and others it was on the condition that it was not for entertainment purposes.

I believe it is this old hangover that results in the current wording and 'license paranoia'

Anyone can engage in self education about flying. Please note: If you start to find it entertaining, Microsoft have stipulated that you must stop.
 
#8
lol..and I guess that DX11 support is an absolute requirement for quality training ;)

Nevertheless, from a developer's perspective, i see an opportunity for significant visual and performance enhancements. Whether this will 'lure' more users (or 'trainees' :)) and whether it will complicate development (FSX and P3D v1.0 &v2.0 add-ons!) will have to be seen I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9
Not until they open sales to general public for entertainment purposes and lower the price accordingly, I don't think. Anyone can buy it, but not for any reason, and not anyone will be willing to pay the full price.

I appreciate that P3D is probably a good piece of kit, but I don't think it is prudent to make it something it is not meant to be - that is, a proper FSX successor in entertainment market (because let's be realistic, that is what most of us do).
 
#10
I love P3D 1.4. It kept me from going fully back to FS2004 and abandoning FSX work. I couldn't fly in FSX on my equipment, and I hated the jittering and flickering and other XXXXX that FSX does. I tried P3D for 30 days and fell in love with it on day one. I think I was lost for 2 weeks just flying around, seeing all that could be seen. I was never able to see things with settings pulled up in FSX and 'fly' without super low frames and all the goof-ball things that FSX would do.

If P3D 1 was this nice, I wonder what P3D 2 will be like!? :)
 

hcornea

Resource contributor
#11
I appreciate that P3D is probably a good piece of kit, but I don't think it is prudent to make it something it is not meant to be - that is, a proper FSX successor in entertainment market (because let's be realistic, that is what most of us do).
My point ...

Is that Lockheed Martin are obliged not to Market this as entertainment, due to the original ESP licensing agreement.

That is regardless of what end users are using it for.

Bill's comment applies here
 

n4gix

Resource contributor
#12
Does anyone besides me see the irony here?

For decades many (dare I say most?) people were beside themselves with frustration because outsiders considered our flightsim activities as a "GAME..."

...and countered that assertion loudly with the counter-claim that it (flightsim) was a "SIMULATOR!"

Now here we are, some twenty-six years later faced with a platform that is without any question whatsoever a recognized, genuine "SIMULATOR..."

...and some (thankfully few) are convinced that they aren't legally qualified to purchase it because it is a "SIMULATOR" and not a "GAME..." :banghead:
 
#13
Not until they open sales to general public for entertainment purposes and lower the price accordingly, I don't think. Anyone can buy it, but not for any reason, and not anyone will be willing to pay the full price.

I appreciate that P3D is probably a good piece of kit, but I don't think it is prudent to make it something it is not meant to be - that is, a proper FSX successor in entertainment market (because let's be realistic, that is what most of us do).

In the past, just a few years ago, people belly ached and complained and whined about how they couldn't call FSX a flight training software and MS had pulled it from schools that were teaching the dream of flight to children.

Now we can, and now suddenly someone is complaining just the opposite? 'I want a game! I want a entertainment thing. I want this, I want that...'

We should be thankful for what we have. A powerful 'continuation' that is massively improved over FSX. The dream continues! Celebrate, man! Do not find gloom in victory. That's like hunting for darkness on a bright sunny day.

Bill
 
Last edited:
#14
Bill& Bill,

Please do not get the idea that I am against P3D or something. I appreciate it is probably a great product as it is, I am just cautious of enthusiasm of calling it the future of simming. Especially as it has little, if any, chances to bring new people into the hobby, and I think it would be a mistake overlooking these aspects.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4
 

Heretic

Resource contributor
#15
We should be thankful for what we have.
A notion that has been widely lost across the community, not only regarding the simulator itself.



Bill& Bill,

Please do not get the idea that I am against P3D or something. I appreciate it is probably a great product as it is, I am just cautious of enthusiasm of calling it the future of simming. Especially as it has little, if any, chances to bring new people into the hobby, and I think it would be a mistake overlooking these aspects.
Of course it won't be as attractive if you can't find it in (online) store xy, but I'm pretty sure that word will get around.
 
#16
Bill& Bill,

Especially as it has little, if any, chances to bring new people into the hobby, and I think it would be a mistake overlooking these aspects.

How so? The FSX SDK left off at Max 9, if I am correct. The new 'P3D' SDK has Max 2011, 2012, and might even have 2014 'with' 64bit compilation capability. They have (for 2012) redone the compilers practically from scratch as they found TONS of errors in the code. The new compiler can nearly compile limitless models. (We haven't found a limit in Polygons yet).

So when you say its keeping out people from getting in, how do you mean?


If you mean regular sim pilots, they have a 3 tier sales system of purchases;
$10.00 a month
$50.00
$200.00 for Pro version


So, what is the limitation? What is keeping people out? It runs FSX planes and scenery. In my humble opinion, there is no issue.
 
#17
If I recall correctly,

When Microsoft licensed ESP to LM and others it was on the condition that it was not for entertainment purposes.

I believe it is this old hangover that results in the current wording and 'license paranoia'

Anyone can engage in self education about flying. Please note: If you start to find it entertaining, Microsoft have stipulated that you must stop.
Gawd, that was funny, Ian ! :rotfl:


But, on a more serious note (NOT !), when I read about the "game changing" feature set in P3D 2.0, it fills me with an overwhelming compulsion to... grab my joystick. :D


...Or was that my "game controller" ? :rolleyes:


Oh, wait, I can't use a "game" controller (least of all a "XBox" game controller) with P3D, can I ? :confused:


And one might wonder if use of a "gamepad" with P3D might be in conflict with the EULA as well.



Hmmm... lets see: :scratchch

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/games/pc-games/xbox-controller-for-windows-setup


Home > Support > Games > Set up your Xbox 360 controller for Windows


"Set up your Xbox 360 controller for Windows


Lots of PC games let you play with a controller instead of just a keyboard or mouse. You can quickly and easily install the Microsoft Xbox 360 Controller for Windows on any computer that has an available USB port and that is running Windows XP Service Pack 2 or a later version of Windows.

Note: This information applies only to the Xbox 360 controller for Windows. For help with other gamepads or joysticks, refer to the manufacturer’s website or support center. For information about how to configure a specific game so that you can play it with a controller, refer to the game publisher’s website or support center.
"


Do we even need the European Union and the US Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department to interpret whether the term "Game" or "Simulator" may be interchangeable ? :(


It seems reasonably apparent to me that the software context of use for such a hardware controller device may be interchangeable between games and simulators. :idea:


I suggest the 2 terms "Game" and "Simulator" are interchangeable based on the (landmark case precedent set by ?) the movie "War Games", in which Matthew Broderick's character gets WOPR to run a nuclear war simulation, originally believing it to be a computer game.

The simulation causes a national nuclear missile scare and nearly starts World War III. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames

http://movieclips.com/bsNe-wargames-movie-shall-we-play-a-game/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo


< I wonder if Lockheed Martin consulted on the making of that movie ? ;) >



BTW: The good news is that portions of the DirectX 11.1 runtime will be made available for Windows 7:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Se...irectX-11.1-Runtime-Chuck-Walbourn,19135.html


The bad news is that many users are experiencing graphical anomalies with the (current) "Portions of the 'DirectX 11.1 Runtime'" being made available on Windows 7 Service Pack 1 via the Platform Update for Windows 7 Service Pack 1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 Service Pack 1 (KB 2670838) included with the Internet Explorer 10 Release Preview for Windows 7," which "includes the updated components above, but is limited to WDDM 1.1 drivers on Windows 7." :banghead:

Even if P3D works without problems on the DirectX 11.1 implementation available on the Windows 8 platform, I believe a majority of the FS Community have little interest in switching to Windows 8, so I hope MS gets its act together and makes the above 'DirectX 11.1 Runtime' work properly in Windows 7 ! :redflag:



PS: I promise, if I start to find P3D too entertaining, I'll consider letting Microsoft tell me that I must stop; seeing them attempt to enforce that CAVEAT would be genuinely 'entertaining' ! :stirthepo


< ...Ahem... > ...Anybody notice that in War Games, Joshua was programmed to target Seattle preceded only by Las Vegas ? :duck:

< ...Just Kidding, of course... >


Happy Flying ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
Last edited:
#18
How so? The FSX SDK left off at Max 9, if I am correct. The new 'P3D' SDK has Max 2011, 2012, and might even have 2014 'with' 64bit compilation capability. They have (for 2012) redone the compilers practically from scratch as they found TONS of errors in the code. The new compiler can nearly compile limitless models. (We haven't found a limit in Polygons yet).

So when you say its keeping out people from getting in, how do you mean?


If you mean regular sim pilots, they have a 3 tier sales system of purchases;
$10.00 a month
$50.00
$200.00 for Pro version


So, what is the limitation? What is keeping people out? It runs FSX planes and scenery. In my humble opinion, there is no issue.
The problem I am seeing is twofold (and some other minor)

1. The user will have to be in a simulation social circle, online or "offline" to even learn about P3D. It is not featured on gaming websites, it is not present in shops, etc.
2. Disregarding the academic and development versions, the typical consumer would have to pay 200 dollars. That is a lot of money. For most of the world, if not for everyone. This ties in somewhat tied into the first one - a simming regular might justify the price, on basis of hours of entertainment per price unit, but a newcomer, even if introduced to P3D via whatever way (a friend, a random encounter, a google search) will see 200 dollars for something he might not even like... and that is a significant decision factor.


Of course backwards compatibility is a huge plus for P3D - without that, we would have hardly ever heard of it, I would say. But a model based on sustaining the community without influx of new members is unviable - that is my firm belief, supported from experiences in our IVAO division.


As for development - I agree. P3D is a great advancement. I use the SDK myself, mainly the online reference and Max plugins for when I need to test something.
 

hairyspin

Resource contributor
#20
P3D not present in shops? Neither are most PC titles, it's just shelves of XBox and PS3 stuff that I see: most PC titles are just available online. For now I'd let LM worry about that one.

Meantime I agonise over using Word to edit XML files - how long before the software police clap me in irons for such chronic word processor abuse? If you've read this, please don't tell them... :eek:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top