• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
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    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Using GIS data to make smooth, accurate roads

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496
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us-missouri
Is it possible to use USGS transportation vector data to change the jagged roads for P3D/FSX to smooth curves that look more realistic and flow better with high-definition mesh scenery? Or at least be able to flatten the road vector on the width axis so you don't have something that resembles a motocross circuit (see below)?

Chris
2020-5-10_11-58-15-1.jpg
 
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Hi Chris:

Because there are certain texture width parameters which are defined for default CVX vector objects (with or without self-tiling alignment of those textures along ex: Road object axes / segments), it is best to do this with SBuilderX.


One can either Append existing default CVX vectors extracted / exported as *.SHP files into SBuilderX via Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor, or Append *.SHP or *.BLN source data into SBuilderX and exclude / replace existing data.


BTW: Dick also wrote a useful KML2BLN conversion utility for *.KML source data: :idea:



See: SBuilderX Help > Working With Points, Lines and Polygns ...to see how one may "smooth" jagged vectors.


Also, see Luis Feliz-Tirado's tutorial:

Terrain Design

sendfile.php

File Description:
Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X

This simple illustrated document explains the basic concepts in Flight Simulator X terrain, and how to change them using SBuilder for FS X. Make new water bodies, roads, vehicle traffic, airport flattens, remove autogen, add more detail - anybody can do it easily and quickly.
My most sincere apologies - I am unable, for lack of free time, to offer support of any kind. For questions or problems, please post in the Avsim scenery design forum.

Filename: terrain_design_for_flight_simulator_x.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 14th December 2009, 13:29:15
Downloads: 16648
Author: Luis Feliz-Tirado
Size: 3991kb

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643


GaryGB
 
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I have created vector data for the entire state of Missouri (using QGIS), including US highways, interstates, and rail lines from a USGS shapefile ZIP. I'd like to include state highways as well (anything more would be too busy and drown out the beautiful ORBX autogen), but I am starting with something more manageable. Is there a way to import this data into FSX/P3D en masse and override the sim's original vector data?

Thanks,
 
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Hi Chris:

You may wish to use SBuilderX to 'Append', or Arno's ScenProc to 'process' ...ESRI *.SHP files. :idea:

GaryGB
 
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496
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us-missouri
I've read everything I can find until my eyes crossed, which armed me with enough information to probably irretrievably wreck my sim. Starting with a simple element, I want to replace stock shoreline and railroad vectors with more accurate ones I have created since they clash horribly with my new, custom 10m mesh.

I extracted the RRX shapefiles from cvx2418.bgl in the "0302" directory and loaded into SBuilderX. To remove and replace, if I understand correctly, I need to first exclude the original stock data, then add my new shapefiles, right? What do I do with the old bgl file and then what do I do with the new one so I can do this properly?

Additionally, is there a way to layer these vectors onto mesh terrain to get proper altitudes for streams, rivers, and lakes? I can do the old FS9 "no flatten" option, but I am not sure that is the best path forward as far as accuracy and mass production (I will be creating water bodies for the entire United States). Also, since the data is going in as 0m, are my streams sitting at sea level, 400 feet underground, and out of view?

Thanks,
 
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HI Chris:

Opera Mini just lost my intended post on this smart phone with a low IQ.

[EDITED]

Until I have some time to re-compose my intended post tomorrow (Monday):

I recommend to first validate and error check *.SHP files with this QGIS plugin:



That QGIS plugin, and the context of its use with *.SHP files to be processed via SBuilderX and SDK SHP2VEC for making CVX Vector scenery ...are discussed in this thread:


[END_EDIT]

More later. :)

GaryGB
 
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us-illinois
Hi Chris:

Thanks for the kind words. :)

I've read everything I can find until my eyes crossed, which armed me with enough information to probably irretrievably wreck my sim. Starting with a simple element, I want to replace stock shoreline and railroad vectors with more accurate ones I have created since they clash horribly with my new, custom 10m mesh.

I extracted the RRX shapefiles from cvx2418.bgl in the "0302" directory and loaded into SBuilderX.

To remove and replace, if I understand correctly, I need to first exclude the original stock data, then add my new shapefiles, right?

CVX Vector Exclusion Polygons with the correct GUID are placed in a Scenery Library GUI Area layer at least (1) layer above any / all scenery to be 'excluded'.

The CVX Vector BGLs containing the 'replacement' scenery can be within the same Scenery Library GUI Area layer as the CVX Vector Exclusion Polygon BGLs


What do I do with the old bgl file and then what do I do with the new one so I can do this properly?

Original BGLs are (...always ! ) left intact and un-edited, in their original locations within the FS folder chains.


Additionally, is there a way to layer these vectors onto mesh terrain to get proper altitudes for streams, rivers, and lakes?

I can do the old FS9 "no flatten" option, but I am not sure that is the best path forward as far as accuracy and mass production (I will be creating water bodies for the entire United States).

Also, since the data is going in as 0m, are my streams sitting at sea level, 400 feet underground, and out of view?

Thanks,

As I contemplate how best to further reply to your inquiry for a project of the massive extent of coverage you are considering, I remember you mentioned using OrbX FTX "Autogen" in your earlier posts on this project.

I am thus compelled to ask whether you propose this CVX vector data set to be used for default scenery, or for OrbX FTX Region packs and/or Global scenery products.

Because the latter OrbX FTX products may use large areas of "fictional" custom land class texture tiles, they may also use custom CVX vector data sets intended to match and blend those tiles with each other, and in certain areas, they are intended to match and blend those tiles with surrounding default scenery, so there may be differing issues with compatibility requirements if making CVX vector scenery files for OrbX FTX products versus MSFS / P3D 'default' scenery.

Please explain a bit more what you are considering, and what end user configuration(s) you may intend to accommodate with this aspect of your project. :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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us-missouri
So hopefully I understand you... I created a polygon, roughly covering the area of Missouri, that excludes the stock railroad vectors in my custom scenery folder and compiled into a BGL. I then appended my Missouri railroad vectors and compiled a second BGL in the same folder. With a Scenery Library higher than the stock vectors, it worked like a charm! Glorious, smooth, and accurately placed railroads, which will soon be joined by interstates as well as national and state highways.

The downside to improving all these elements of flight simulaiton scenery is once I add something new it elevates my expectations and ruins what I previously thought looked spectacular. :) For example, these railways and interstate overpasses need bridges since you can clearly see the grades rising and dropping off in the now-appropriately placed area.
 
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Regarding your second point: I am trying to create precise terrain, highways, railroads, waterbodies and streams, and landclass data. I know what looks good on my system, but this is something I would like as many people as possible to enjoy. Maybe it won't work for XPlane users or extremely low-end systems running FS9 - I don't know right now. I would like something that works along with (and improves) systems that run ORBX sceneries as well as systems that do not, but I don't want anything in there that depends on ORBX library objects.

Does that answer your question?
 
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7,450
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us-illinois
So hopefully I understand you... I created a polygon, roughly covering the area of Missouri, that excludes the stock railroad vectors in my custom scenery folder and compiled into a BGL. I then appended my Missouri railroad vectors and compiled a second BGL in the same folder. With a Scenery Library higher than the stock vectors, it worked like a charm! Glorious, smooth, and accurately placed railroads, which will soon be joined by interstates as well as national and state highways.

The downside to improving all these elements of flight simulation scenery is once I add something new it elevates my expectations and ruins what I previously thought looked spectacular. :) For example, these railways and interstate overpasses need bridges since you can clearly see the grades rising and dropping off in the now-appropriately placed area.

Congratulations ! :cool:

Indeed, once bitten by the terrain development bug, one always sees new ways to further enhance the environment in which we "used" to fly. :laughing:

Regarding your second point: I am trying to create precise terrain, highways, railroads, water-bodies and streams, and land class data. I know what looks good on my system, but this is something I would like as many people as possible to enjoy. Maybe it won't work for X-Plane users or extremely low-end systems running FS9 - I don't know right now. I would like something that works along with (and improves) systems that run ORBX sceneries as well as systems that do not, but I don't want anything in there that depends on ORBX library objects.

Does that answer your question?

What you are describing is essentially the equivalent of what has already been done in payware OrbX FTX Global and/or region packs which include custom CVX vector data, and also via the OrbX FTX Global "Vector" and Land Class products, as well as in the payware Scenery Solutions / Flight1 Ultimate Terrain X products.

Again, there would be some complexities involved in making another version of such products as described above. :alert:

Targeting default (aka 'stock') versus OrbX FTX installation configurations with a alternative product would require individual and distinct development scenarios for each, with regard to both exclusion and replacement of scenery content, when working on such 'standard' land class-type scenery (...as distinguished from working with 'custom photo-real' land class-type scenery). :pushpin:

Additionally, although one may re-utilize raw GIS source data, X-Plane requires yet another distinct production work-flow to make such scenery types. ;)

GaryGB
 
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Hi Chris:

I have edited my latter (2) posts above in an attempt at better clarity as I compose a reply to your inquiries on this rather wide scope of scenery development types that you have expressed an interest in producing.

IMHO, to better prepare oneself for such a task as you describe, it would be best to initially work with (1) local area in order to learn all that is involved in excluding / replacing / blending such multiple types of scenery intended for use with each FS and/or X-Plane product configuration you are targeting.

Also, you may need to learn how to implement the special terrain and associated 3D object procedures required to create "encasements" and bridges for road interchanges, railroads etc. in the event that you intend to match- or exceed- the level of complexity provided by such products as UTX cited above.


BTW: Be aware that you would not have the option to utilize ex: OrbX FTX proprietary scenery objects or even to place them via their GUIDs ...for either freeware or payware purposes. :alert:

Thus, you may have to either utilize default scenery content types, or make your own custom replacements, for certain types of scenery objects and any custom mapped textures and/or 3D objects associated with them via ex: Terrain.Cfg.

There may be additional considerations which merit mention, and I can post them here incrementally as my available time permits if you are interested.

But perhaps you may wish to instead ask questions on more specific aspects of the workflow involved for certain tasks as you progress with this project. ;)

GaryGB
 
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us-missouri
Gary,
The way this is shaping up, I may disable ORBX. I just flew through Missouri over mesh scenery, streams, rivers, ponds, US/state highways, interstates, and wooded polygon areas that I put together - thanks in large part to your help. It was incredible, and this part of the country (in the sim) used to absolutely stink. Crossing into Illinois - where I haven't modeled anything besides terrain - was like the disappointment waking up from the best dream ever and figuring out none of it was real.

Drilling down to specifics: is there a way to place a priority over certain items within a scenery library folder? The USGS GIS data I used has a stream line for most water bodies which sits on top of every river, and I would like to make that a lower priority than water bodies. For example, when a stream widens I would like the water polygon to cover up the streamline. And with 49 states to go, I would rather not have 100 scenery library folders to deal with if at all possible.

Mille grazie,
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Gary,
The way this is shaping up, I may disable ORBX. I just flew through Missouri over mesh scenery, streams, rivers, ponds, US/state highways, interstates, and wooded polygon areas that I put together - thanks in large part to your help. It was incredible, and this part of the country (in the sim) used to absolutely stink. Crossing into Illinois - where I haven't modeled anything besides terrain - was like the disappointment waking up from the best dream ever and figuring out none of it was real.

As an Illinois resident and 'chronic' flight simmer, I must now say "Welcome to my world"; now you also know why I fly more scenic parts of the USA in FS ! :p

Drilling down to specifics: is there a way to place a priority over certain items within a scenery library folder? The USGS GIS data I used has a stream line for most water bodies which sits on top of every river, and I would like to make that a lower priority than water bodies. For example, when a stream widens I would like the water polygon to cover up the streamline. And with 49 states to go, I would rather not have 100 scenery library folders to deal with if at all possible.

Mille grazie,


IIUC, you want Hydro polygons and associated shorelines for those objects to be rendered on top of textured CVX vector lines used to represent streams and rivers where they enter / exit such Hydro polygons ? :scratchch

If so, AFAIK, that may involve use of Alphanumeric file naming and/or superimposition of CVX Vector BGLs via Area layer positions in Scenery Library GUI.

I am not certain that assigned RenderPriority for such CVX vector objects in Terrain.Cfg would be the best way to control FS run time top-down CVX draw order.


FYI: ADE author Jon Masterson (aka "Scruffyduck") has a reference document on implementing load order / display priority of scenery files ...here: :teacher:



BTW: While I understand the practicality of using textured lines for streams and narrow water bodies, having a specular water effect from a Hydro polygon drawn as a narrow stream may further enhance the FS visual flying experience far beyond that of using mere textured poly-lines for such objects.

One can duplicate / offset vector poly-lines and join them at ends to form CVX vector Hydro polygons clipped automatically at QMID-11 quad borders. :idea:

A few somewhat related concepts are discussed in this thread:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...n-mount-st-helens-pre-1980.445076/post-819396


But there are a few tricks to be learned in working with *.SHP vector poly-line data in a GIS application, to merge stream polys with larger water body polys.

GaryGB
 
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us-missouri
I wonder when your governor is going to change the sign on the bridge where I live to "Welcome to Illinois: you are under arrest." I think if Illinois seceded from Chicago you'd have a pretty nice state (especially with all the wonderful geologic formations in the southern half of the state by where I live), but the way things are going, many of us in Missouri are considering blowing the bridges.

Really the flowing creek texture is just a smear with no personality so I like your suggestion of specular-effect streams. It seems that for every item I cross off my list, there are two or three new options to make what I have even better than I originally thought was possible. This is difficult and time-consuming, but there is just enough progress to be very rewarding.

I hadn't dove into shorelines yet because I was concerned that once I learned how to apply shorelines to the polygons (hopefully the process is somewhat like assigning "stroke" and "fill" properties to vector shapes in Paint Shop Pro) I would essentially have a grid of shorelines on larger bodies of water (like the Mississippi River) where one polygon ended and another began. I am playing with the waterclass tool now to give the Ol' Muddy a brown texture and that seems to have really helped - although I noticed that despite only covering a portion of one Mississippi River polygon with the shallow inland waterclass it seems to have applied to the entire polygon, which stretches from its confluence with the Ohio River at Cairo to maybe Ste. Genevieve (I haven't had a chance to fly the entire route).

And is it ok to distribute stock scenery created from public domain data compiled with SBuilderX and Airport Design Editor? It just dawned on me that while all my data belongs to us taxpayers, I might not be able to distribute scenery created by these great programs. I didn't make it all the way through law school, but SBX mention using it for "any scenery product," and ADE doesn't indicate one way or another in anything I have found.
 
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
I wonder when your governor is going to change the sign on the bridge where I live to "Welcome to Illinois: you are under arrest." I think if Illinois seceded from Chicago you'd have a pretty nice state (especially with all the wonderful geologic formations in the southern half of the state by where I live), but the way things are going, many of us in Missouri are considering blowing the bridges.

One might wonder if Illinois learned that from Wisconsin, where up until last week, vehicles with IL license plates crossing the border were reportedly intercepted by the authorities, and told to go back where they came from, or undergo a forced 2-week quarantine. :yikes:

Now they again are welcoming Illinois' Billions (Billionois ?) of dollars in tourism and patronage at local businesses. :laughing:


Truth be told, I too was 'living in Missouri' (pronounced by some as "living in Misery" for a few years back in the 80's, and at that time Illinois was popular with 'Missourians' as a place to go shop and buy alcohol due to restrictive local ordinances on Sundays.

< Is Missouri South of the "Mason-Dixon Line" in the 'Bible Belt', or is that inferred by the Missouri Compromise ? :scratchch >

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason–Dixon_line

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Compromise

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Fried_Rabbit


BTW: After a lot of hard work, 'Comedy Relief' is an important part of the FS Developer experience: :duck:



Really the flowing creek texture is just a smear with no personality so I like your suggestion of specular-effect streams. It seems that for every item I cross off my list, there are two or three new options to make what I have even better than I originally thought was possible. This is difficult and time-consuming, but there is just enough progress to be very rewarding.


I hadn't dove into shorelines yet because I was concerned that once I learned how to apply shorelines to the polygons (hopefully the process is somewhat like assigning "stroke" and "fill" properties to vector shapes in Paint Shop Pro) I would essentially have a grid of shorelines on larger bodies of water (like the Mississippi River) where one polygon ended and another began. I am playing with the water class tool now to give the Ol' Muddy a brown texture and that seems to have really helped - although I noticed that despite only covering a portion of one Mississippi River polygon with the shallow inland water class it seems to have applied to the entire polygon, which stretches from its confluence with the Ohio River at Cairo to maybe Ste. Genevieve (I haven't had a chance to fly the entire route).

CAVEAT: Always dive OFF of shorelines INTO Hydro polygon, and not the reverse... otherwise it 'hurts'. :D


FYI: In SBuilderX, one may copy a Hydro polygon, paste it back into the exact position it was copied from, select it, reverse its poly-line vertex winding direction from ex: CW to CCW, select and convert it to a poly-line; then assign it a shoreline GUID.

NOTE: It is a 'best practice' to have 'child' shoreline vertices exactly aligned with those of its 'parent' Hydro polygon. :pushpin:

This is easily done by making a copy of the source Hydro Polygon object, then pasting it precisely back into position, and converting it into a Poly-line object.

And is it OK to distribute stock scenery created from public domain data compiled with SBuilderX and Airport Design Editor?

It just dawned on me that while all my data belongs to us taxpayers, I might not be able to distribute scenery created by these great programs. I didn't make it all the way through law school, but SBX mention using it for "any scenery product," and ADE doesn't indicate one way or another in anything I have found.

IIRC, ADE requires a commercial fee when used to produce payware scenery products.


IIUC, yes, the USGS merely wants to be credited ex: as "Source: USGS" somewhere in the product documentation.

AFAIK, all USGS offerings are public domain and freely usable / re-distributable as derived for ex: FS scenery products.

GaryGB
 
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Man, that video sure makes me miss Bugs Bunny on Saturday mornings! And nice one with the "Billion-ois." As to the pesky streams popping up in my beloved scenery, they are in the same scenery folder, and it is my understanding after studying the priority page you shared, that the sim loads from the top of the folder down (descending alpha-numerically), so streams should be covered by waterbodies.

Capture.JPG

Or am I mistaken? There isn't another scenery file containing the streams, and "Waterbody.BGL" uses polygons, not lines. Does the FSX/P3D engine prioritize lines to appear on top of water polygons perhaps?
 
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Hi Chris:

Dick had this to say on the subject ...back in 2012:

The terrain.cfg file controls the rendering priority of vectors and polys. Streamlines are given priority over shorelines. Shorelines are given priority over waterpolys. Logically, streamlines also have priority over waterpolys.

You need to end the streamline data at the edges of the waterpolys in a GIS program, or in something like SBuilderX. Changing the terrain.cfg would lead to problems.

Dick


FYI: Thorsten Reichert (who has since gained a better use of conversational English and courtesy than seen in his many early posts here and at AVSIM over 10 to 15 years ago ;) ) had started one of the earliest threads on this subject here:



In 2014 I revisited that thread to report updated info on yet another possible way to utilize 2 adjacent vector data types in close proximity without (yet) a true merge having been implemented in the GIS application,

According to MS-ACES' Doug Matthews following release of the FSX SDK, one technically can combine both Polygon and Line data in the same BGL via SDK SHP2VEC, although most GIS and FS utilities do not appear to attempt that task, and instead split those (2) vector object types into separate data files and BGLs.


BTW: Streams are in the *CVX*.BGL vector files within [FS install path]\Scenery\[Area Number]\Scenery sub-folder chains.


NOTE: CVX vector streams are written into a separate *ST*.SHP by Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor utility when those objects are output; they may then be Appended into SBuilderX and/or imported into a GIS application for further processing.


PS: There may be other threads on this subject wherein Arno may have posted a work-flow to merge vector polygons via ex: ScenProc, but I have not had time to further research that. :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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