FSX utility_1 and 2

[robystar]

Hi,

I was tying to add some telephone poles to my scenery using one of the two above mentioned polyline tags (do not know which one is which) but they do not show up.
The xml says the following
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<metadata xml:lang="en">
<FlightSim>
<Geometry clipLevel="11"></Geometry>
<AttributeSet>
<AttributeBlock name="Texture" guid="{1B6A15BB-05FB-4401-A8D1-BB520E84904C}">
<Field name="Guid" type="GUID" />
</AttributeBlock>
<AttributeBlock name="Utilities" guid="{C7ACE4AE-871D-4938-8BDC-BB29C4BBF4E3}">
<Field name="Uuid" type="GUID" />
</AttributeBlock>
</AttributeSet>
</FlightSim>
</metadata>

and the kml is just a straight line (which it should be).
Is there a reason why they do not show up? I thought FSXKML could handle that kind of thing?
I noticed that the GUID in the terrain.cfg reads
{C942AADB-C351-4088-925E-A732C2093B63},
a number that I do not find back in the xml.
Could somebody explain please?

Thanks,

Roby

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roby:

IIRC, "utility_1 and 2" are for electrical utility corridor ground texture lines and associated power towers / pylons.



You may wish to examine this web page:

http://lc0277.gratisim.fr/sceneobjects/autogen/index.html


The default FSX "Autogen" scenery object library has this "Telephone Pole" to offer:

[B][COLOR="Navy"]ag_telephonepole {46F3D6CB-4270-4373-AEE9-89FB38462EA9}
size: 0.38, 17.02, 2.71[/COLOR][/B]

One can open [FSX install path]\Terrain.Cfg in a text editor and "Find" all instances of that object GUID, to determine what autogen 'vector line' meta objects (aka "Texture" poly line objects) may be available to place that Telephone Pole object.


[EDITED]


FYI: One can also place only telephone poles (without any associated road or other objects) along a poly-line using this entry from Terrain.Cfg:

// Telephone Lines
[Autogen.13.0.0]
guid={2727330E-C355-B743-9174-E0097031523A}
LegacyId=13
AutoObject={46F3D6CB-4373-4270-FB89-E9AEA92E4638} (ag_TelephonePole)
ObjectSize=1000
ExclusionWidth=3
ClipData=Yes
Offset=20
Density=95
MinAutogenDensity=20
PlaceOnWater=No
RandomHeading=No

CAVEAT: To make such legacy land class "textures" and linked vector autogen objects available for use via a custom GUID as "meta objects", one may use the Richard Ludowise / Luis Feliz-Tirado "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file ...as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6204


http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56050



Or perhaps one may implement an alternative work-around which does not require use of a modified Terrain.Cfg ...as alluded to here:


http://fivonnp.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16487
[DEAD LINK to a yet another server address ... Arno please HELP ! ]


(...or possibly that same info may be found via one of these Google search results ? ):

https://www.google.com/#q=does+not+require+use+of+a+modified+Terrain.Cfg



NOTE: "ag_telephonepole {46F3D6CB-4270-4373-AEE9-89FB38462EA9}" GUID is not found in [FSX install path]\Autogen\Default.xml



Alternatively, for custom placement and control, one could place "ag_telephonepole" as a 'line of objects' (separate from and with a GUID different than that used when this object is associated with a "meta object" in Terrain.Cfg) via Instant Scenery, FenceBuilder Pro, SBuilderX, or ADEX ...from the FSX default "Autogen" object library:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\Global\scenery\autogen.bgl



BTW: To use custom land class objects (ex: new entries by 3rd parties added to the 'original' Richard Ludowise / Luis Feliz-Tirado "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file) in SBuilder, one must edit a copy of:

[SBuilder install path]\Tools\Lines.txt

...as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3263&highlight="lines.txt"

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130092&highlight="lines.txt"

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13425&highlight="lines.txt"

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207689&highlight="lines.txt"


To use custom land class objects (ex: new entries by 3rd parties added to the 'original' Richard Ludowise / Luis Feliz-Tirado "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file) in FSX_KML, one must edit a copy of:

[FSX_KML install path]\Tools\FSX_KML_Tags.xml

...as discussed here:

http://fivonnp.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16487


To use custom land class objects (ex: new entries by 3rd parties added to the 'original' Richard Ludowise / Luis Feliz-Tirado "Modified Terrain.Cfg" file) in ADEX, one must edit a copy of both:

[ADE install Path]\shapeVectorList.dat

...and

[ADE install Path]\shapePolyList.dat

...as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154946&postcount=3



You may also wish to refer to a discussion on use of the Utility_1 and Utility_2 objects, as well as the Tutorial "Fun With Lines" by Luis Feliz-Tirado (aka "LFT") at:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?p=117755#post117755


NOTE: A ZIP archive of that entire "Fun With Lines" Tutorial by Luis Feliz-Tirado is attached in the linked thread immediately above.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13470&d=1354893077



PS: < Rather generous portions being served in this latest "info buffet", no ? >


Pray the "FS Illuminati" shall not seek to suppress any of this info < ...might this be our 'last supper' on the subject ? >

[END_EDIT]

Hope this info helps !

GaryGB

 

[robystar]

Hi,

Thanks, Gary, but that does not shed light on my question as I was already aware of those things.
However, the Fun with lines tutorial I cannot or do not know how to play.

Roby

 

[GaryGB]

the Fun with lines tutorial I cannot or do not know how to play.

Roby

Hi Roby:

Sorry I forgot about some of the "gotcha's" associated with the black screen overlay, which IIUC is a quirk of the AVSIM "Community Forum Software by IP.Board" seen in archived "complete" web pages viewed "off-line"when the "online" web page integrated FaceBook, Twitter or other optional content (read: "Social Networking Crap" ! ) on top of the original underlying web page.


To view the "Fun With Lines" Tutorial by Luis Feliz-Tirado:

1.) Un-zip that archive into a folder preserving the stored "relative" folder structure

2.) Double-click "Fun With Lines.htm" in ex: FireFox (web page should be loaded in a separate browser window instance)

3.) The "black screen overlay" can be disabled by:

a.) FireFox Menu > Tools > Options > Content > un-check "Enable JavaScript"; click "OK"

b.) Web Page should now be fully visible on "off-line" mode after refreshing that page via the < F5 > key



PS: If the web page opens in MS Internet Explorer (aka "MSIE"), see:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=591928&postcount=6


[EDITED]

UPDATED - Jan24, 2014

For more detailed info on viewing the "Fun With Lines" Tutorial by Luis Feliz-TiradoSee, see:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=117755&postcount=4

[END_EDIT]

Thanks, Gary, but that does not shed light on my question as I was already aware of those things.

I'll try to respond in more detail specific to your XML vector coding query in the OP when I get back to my FS computer later today.


But just as an initial clarification, is there a reason that you would not want to place the "Telephone Pole" object itself via FSX_KML (version 1.10) using the GUIDs for that "Telephone Pole" object already existing in the FSX_KML_TAGS.XML file ?

A search of the FSX_KML_TAGS.XML file in ex: NotePad will show the "Telephone Pole" object is available to place as a separate scenery library object, and also as a "meta object" associated with more than one GUID listed in both the FSX default Terrain.Cfg and the Modified Terrain.Cfg.

Were you instead wanting to place "Telephone Pole" objects using the placement interval for "electrical utility corridors" with the associated grass texture along the axis of the vector line instead of the "roads" seen associated with the existing "Telephone Pole" object listings in Terrain.Cfg ?

If so, AFAIK, one would need to make another custom (new) entry in Terrain.Cfg using a copy of the UTILITY_1 or UTILITY_2 objects (using new GUIDs) with the Telephone Pole object GUID substituted for the power tower pylons GUID.


Have a great day !

GaryGB

 

[robystar]

Hello Gary,

Yes, I wanted to put telephone/ electric wire poles using a vector line tagged with the GUID for either the utility_1 or utility_2 object and that with FSXKML (I do not want the associated grass corridor but I would like to associate them with a road).
Thanks for explaining how to open this tutorial. I will try it but I do not have firefox.

Roby

PS: Of course I know how and can place the poles by hand one by one as scenery objects but just wanted to try it with FSX KML instead.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roby:

IIRC, for MS Internet Explorer (aka "MSIE"), disable "Active Scripting" in Security settings (to disable JavaScript) would be the equivalent to the procedure used for FireFox.


[EDITED]

a.) MSIE Menu > Tools > Internet Options > Security Tab > "Custom" Button > Settings > Scripting > disable "Active Scripting"; click "OK"

b.) Web Page should now be fully visible in "off-line" mode after refreshing that page via the < F5 > key


UPDATED - Jan24, 2014

For more detailed info on viewing the "Fun With Lines" Tutorial by Luis Feliz-TiradoSee, see:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=117755&postcount=4

[END_EDIT]


Hopefully that will enable viewing the entire tutorial web page in MSIE for you.

GaryGB

 

[robystar]

Thanks a bunch, Gary.
How do you know all that? Not from Google search I suppose?

Roby

PS: and have a great weekend youself if you have time to drag yourself away from your PC (hear who is talking).

 

[kevintampa5]

Gary is a walking encyclopedia. IDK how he does it but the man is a freaking genius. I know a lot of stuff, but this mans brain must be the size of a 747 main gear tire.

Seriously Gary, where do you get all this info?

 

[GHD]

Hi Gary,

Most of your discussion has been on the use of default landclass. Roby is using photo-scenery.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Gary,

Most of your discussion has been on the use of default landclass. Roby is using photo-scenery.

Hi George:

Thanks for sharing that important info regarding the scenery milieu for Roby's project.


Roby:

AFAIK, FS SDK (resample generated) photoreal imagery BGLs are technically a form of 'custom' land class, and inherently are assigned a rendering "sequence" second only to certain airport objects such as default RWY MDLs, and will always render on "top" of 'default' land class scenery content.

I use the term "sequence" here in an attempt to describe scenery rendering as a function of resultant visibility (from top to bottom), and to distinguish run time render outcomes from various terms historically used in FS scenery building such as:

* "layers" in either a VTP or 3D object modeling context

* a "render priority" in the context of parameters set in Terrain.Cfg

* and/or as layer and priority, as both are sometimes used in a Scenery.Cfg file / FS scenery library GUI context.


...thus describing FS run time outcome versus numeric layer assignment / position / "intended" render priority etc.



IIRC, vector content listed in Terrain.Cfg is a special form of default land class which has an inherently assigned rendering "sequence" below that of both the above airport objects and custom photoreal land class draped onto the terrain mesh.

Thus, custom photoreal land class will normally "cover up" default types of land class, and special types of default land class objects such as vector polygons and poly-lines which have scenery library objects mapped with them to form what I refer to as "meta-objects" which are assigned a GUID and listed in Terrain.Cfg.


However, IIUC, one can set a blend mask attribute using specific gray scale values in a 8-bit TIF file to allow default land class vector polygon and poly-line scenery content to also be rendered at run-time when such a "transparency-enabling" blend mask is processed in a multi-source INF file via FS SDK Resample to output a imagery / placement BGL for one's custom photoreal land class.

When this is done, one will get a imagery / placement BGL that not only allows default land class (including vector polygon and poly-line scenery content listed in Terrain.Cfg) ...to be seen, but any autogen annotations applied to the underlying default land class may also be seen all the way through to the "top" of one's scenery as rendered in FS at run-time... in the "transparent" parts of one's custom photoreal land class textures.

Such a scenario technically could allow a line of "Telephone Poles" to show through to the top of one's custom photoreal land class textures.

But in this scenario one may find it is easier to place scenery library objects as a "line of objects" via XML, rather than utilizing vector content along a poly-line using items listed in Terrain.Cfg, given the extra work involved to create a transparent window in one's custom photoreal land class.


Since transparency is inherently "computationally expensive" according to ACES, one might wonder what the performance trade-off may be between multiple areas of transparency in ones imagery / placement BGL versus forfeiting texture draw call batching by placing scenery library objects via "BGLComp XML" ...as separate "instances" at discrete coordinates.


If such performance issues are a concern, one can of course use the FS SDK Autogen Annotator to place one's Telephone Pole objects mapped to the custom photoreal land class via a *.AGN file.

Perhaps one could make the creation of lines of Telephone Pole objects (as autogen) somewhat easier by first using ex: Google Earth with FSX-KML to generate all the poly-lines geographic Lon - Lat (X - Y) decimal degree coordinates with a sufficient number of (14) decimal places of precision.

Then one one could convert those coordinates from geographic to FS quad tree LOD-13 cell grid coordinates as "X-Y vector offsets" used in the special XML code compiled into AGN files, thus placing lines of Telephone Pole objects as autogen.


Possibly Arno's autogen utilities might also be of some help with this process utilizing ESRI *.SHP shape files as input.


Might this be a viable option for your project ?

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

Roby,

Both Utility_1 {C942AADB-C351-4088-925E-A732C2093B63} and Utility_2 {D745C22C-FF72-4C45-9D27-809306214B7C} are recognised as roads by TmfViewer.



The only way I could generate telephone poles was with my favourite vector program SBuilderX using "Line of Objects"

 

[robystar]

Hi Gary, hi George,

In view of the above, for which my eternal thanks, I think I am going to settlle for placing the telephone posts by hand as lib objects. I think that is the most time efficient thing to do, especially because it is not that hard.
It is only that I thought FSX KML could do it that I tried it, nothing more.
And I could also use SbuilderX, as George explained, to do it but I am not very proficient at SBX (to say it mildly).
However, I still do not understand why a line of vector generated telephone poles would not show through the photoreal as both FSX KML and SBX are supposed to be able to do it, although they do not show up in the former.
Funny thing is that, when inactivating my photoreal, I do get the grass corridor but without the telephone posts, from which I deduct that FSX KML does the job more or less but cannot find the associated telephone post libobject, probably because I am doing something wrong myself or forgetting to do something essential.
By the way, I do see the vector line in the tmf viewer as well.

Thanks, but let it rest, it is vexing but not that important.

Roby

 

[GHD]

By the way, I do see the vector line in the tmf viewer as well.

Did you check the properties in TmfViewer?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roby:

You may also wish to compare these files in ex: NotePad:

[FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\Vector Examples\Example1\SourceData\UTX7824.xml

...and:

[FSX-KML install path]\Output\[your poly-line vector object placement file name].XML



You may note that the default UTX7824.xml example "template" file may have been utilized and/or modified by FSX-KML for the unique object placement that you are trying to achieve.


The {1B6A15BB-05FB-4401-A8D1-BB520E84904C} object GUID listed in the default UTX7824.xml example "template" file that you are trying to place in your OP above is the FSX default UTILITY_1 "texture".


IIUC, you are wanting to place Telephone Poles along a road.

Please be aware that there are already such "meta objects" available to place in Terrain.Cfg which utilize the correct "Telephone Pole" scenery library object mapped onto the "meta object", and that you would likely want to use these rather than "Utility" types of objects.




Please take a moment to confirm that FSX-KML has a complete list of default FSX object GUIDs available to place in:

[FSX_KML install path]\Tools\FSX_KML_Tags.xml

...by opening it in ex: NotePad


Next, please take a moment to confirm that FSX has a complete list of default FSX object GUIDs available to place in:

[FSX install path]\Terrain.Cfg

...by opening it in ex: NotePad


Then search for the GUIDs of the "Utility" objects in your XML code shown in the OP above; if they are not present, they will not be rendered at run time in FSX.



BTW: While you are viewing both the FSX Terrain.Cfg and FSX_KML_Tags.xml files in NotePad, please search for "Telephone".

You will likely find that only the "ag_telephonepole" scenery library object (as a stand alone object) appears in FSX_KML_Tags.xml available for placement, but that there are a few other entries available as excludes.


But you will also likely find that "Telephone" appears in multiple listed "meta objects" in FSX Terrain.Cfg, and that these are available for placement.

If you use the GUID listed next to the "guid=" line in a given Terrain.Cfg meta object entry to place that object, it should be rendered in FSX at run time.


However, if you use FSX-KML to do this, be aware that it can only do so if you add the desired "meta object" listings from Terrain.Cfg (properly formatted) into the FSX_KML_Tags.xml file, so that such objects are available for FSX-KML to use in generating the output placement CVX vector BGL via FSX SDK SHP2VEC.


So probably you should add any objects you wish to place into the FSX_KML_Tags.xml file (after first checking that they are not already in there) ...if FSX-KML will be your preferred utility for this project.


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[robystar]

Hi,

Thank you, Gary and George.
Guess you both overlooked my comment to let it rest.
In fact I did overlook something myself as I was afraid of already, namely the fact that you do not only have to add the vector line but also the library object as a seperate entry to the build instruction.
I could not find the telephone post straight away so I put in something a bit out of the way but I wanted it to show clearly (see attachment).
The distances between the various poles/atomiums are probably determined by the number of vertices on the vector line, so the spacing is not automatically accurate as I thought it would be.
Anyway, thanks a bunch for all the extra info and hope I have also contributed something myself for those old fashioned (or lazy) guys that still use FSX KML.

Roby

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roby:

"Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat (horatio) and I fully agree!"

IIUC, this line from Horace's Satires (translated from the Latin "Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?") means:

"What prevents me from speaking the truth with a smile ?"


Reportedly Horace had a sharp wit and a sense of humor, and he is telling us that these are not incompatible.

Thus a joke may make a point more accurately than a sermon; and certainly a joke is more apt to be remembered and repeated.


Need I preach about the evils of being "secretive" ...and the impact it has on the time and energy of those who would care enough to post information intended to help not only an OP author, but other readers of a thread... to further their own endeavors and enjoy the learning process here ?


Far better I should apply some pejorative admonishment ...laced with levity.

you do not only have to add the vector line but also the library object as a seperate entry to the build instruction.

I believe it would only be fair that you now tell us how you placed the "Atomiums" in your screenie.

Was it using the intended procedure of a custom vector object poly-line with mapped scenery library objects placed via FSX-KML using the XML2SHP and SHP2VEC method ?

Or was it instead, a "line of objects" placed as instances of scenery library objects via "BGLCOMP XML" ?


Oh, and for the record, when I respond to a query with an abundance of info intended to provide some measure of topical summary as a "mini-tutorial" on scenery building topics that are (IMHO) poorly documented and/or scattered in fragments across various posts on multiple FS web sites, I do so not only for the OP author, but for other readers as well.


So, I would anticipate that as a pending conclusion to the thread, it might be appropriate for you to be a bit more forthcoming out of appreciation for the efforts on the part of others, and to "pay your dues" as a courtesy to other aspiring readers also trying to learn about scenery building.



PS: As a final courtesy to your apparent project goal of achieving measured intervals for objects placed along a line, I'll mention a capability made possible in FenceBuilder Pro by some innovative programming on the part of Don Grovestine:

http://online.simmarket.com/fsaddon/FenceBuilderQuick-StartManual.pdf

As illustrated on Page 18/22 of the linked PDF, one can set the interval between scenery library objects placed along a line using FenceBuilder Pro (aka "FBP").


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[GHD]

Roby,

You really should perservere with SBX. The spacing of objects is a parameter to Line of Objects. There can be as many or as few vertices as you need to define the path.

It is all very well for Gary to quote references, but it might be better if he were to create some examples and show the results in FSX?

 

[robystar]

Hi Gary,

No, no, I was in no way intending to demean anything of what you have added as comments, on the contrary! So sorry if I gave you that idea.
As I said (or tried to), I drew a polyline with GE, saved it as a kml, ran it through the prefix KML.exe, opened FSX KML and added the KML to the project, added a tag (utility_1) to it and let the program build the bgl.
And as you know, nothing showed but the grass lane when turning off the photoreal backgound.
As a result of your added info, I kept wondering why I did not show and when George added his own question as to whether it showed up in the TMF viewer and if I had checked its properties, I realized that something was missing. So I opened the project again, copied the entry I had made but changed the tag to Library Object and the one I happened to come across was the Brussels atomium (more than big enough to check whether it shows or not). I then compiled/built the project again and there you go. It is there alright. Proves that FSX KML can indeed do it and proves once more my lack of expertise in the program.
In a nutshell: open GE, select 'add path', draw a line or whatever, placing vertices where you want the telephone poles to appear, save as a kml file, run the kml through the PreFsxKml.exe, open FSX KML, select new, add your KML, tag it utility_1 (or 2), copy and add your entry but tag it differently as a library object, search for the telephone poles and select those (or whatever object you want to be placed on those vertices) and click on 'build' (provided you have given and checked the paths and options available to do it). And that is it.
Admit that, once you know how, it is easier than to build or adapt an xml or the other possible options you proposed.
By the way, please do not expect me to change my Horace quote underneath each and every of my entries as it comes automatically even on the rare occasions that I am serious.
Hope it helps as well?

Roby

PS: How come people so often try to read something between the lines that is not there?

Edit: in the meantime you added some more info, George : "The spacing of objects is a parameter to Line of Objects". That is something I still have to check out, thanks.

 

[GaryGB]

Roby,

You really should perservere with SBX. The spacing of objects is a parameter to Line of Objects. There can be as many or as few vertices as you need to define the path.

It is all very well for Gary to quote references, but it might be better if he were to create some examples and show the results in FSX?

Hi George:

Thank you for that excellent suggestion, and for a well-intended and genuinely fair critique of what I have contributed here.

As my limited time permits in the future, I shall endeavor to offer more "worked examples" with illustrations ...as you have so admirably done in your many helpful posts here and elsewhere on FS web sites.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Roby:

Thanks for your kind clarification and explanation of the methods used in your screenies in this thread, especially the latter one posted immediately above.


So, IIUC, in FSX-KML... if both object sets were tagged and selected for compilation, both the UTILITY_1 poly-line and the copied vertices from same (tagged instead as stand alone instances of the "Telephone Pole" scenery library object), ...they were actually processed via each of the 2 compilers ?

* The UTILITY_1 vector "meta object" poly-line (with its mapped scenery library objects) placed using the XML2SHP and SHP2VEC method into a CVX BGL ?

...and:

* The copied vertices from the above poly-line tagged as instances of the "Telephone Pole" scenery library object placed as "a line of objects" using "BGLCOMP XML" method into a separate BGL ?


And thus, IIUC, in FSX at run time, only the instances of the "Telephone Pole" scenery library object as "a line of objects" placed using "BGLCOMP XML" method was able to be rendered on top of your custom photoreal land class imagery textures ?


Thanks in advance for your clarification of the methods that generated the compiled output BGL type(s) resulting in your screenie posted immediately above.



PS: AFAIK, George may be referring to the info on "Sample" parameters for polygons and poly-lines in the SBuilderX Help *.CHM file wherein one may set the "Minimum Distance in Meters between adjacent Points" (vertices):

In the [SBuilderX install path]\Help\[*.CHM Help File]:

Menu > "Search" tab > [line of objects] = query string > "Working with Points, Lines and Polygons" = result > Sample


Hope that helps with learning about the options offered by SBuilderX to achieve your goal as an alternate for some options offered by FenceBuilder Pro.

GaryGB