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Custom Objects disappear on recompile

falcon409

falcon409

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us-texas
I'm assisting another individual with a problem with ADE. The scenario is as follows:
A group of Finnish Airports recompiled from FS2004 for use in FSX. When an individual airport bgl is loaded into the current ADE, the custom objects show as "unknown". I open Scenery Object Manager and load the scenery object bgl's allowing ADE to add them. Once completed I saved the airport and closed ADE. Reload ADE and all custom objects are now "active". However, if I add some parking spots and save and recompile the airport. . .when I load that airport in the sim (P3D_V2.5). . .all objects are gone. This also occurs in FSX as that's the sim that this other individual is using.

Any sense of what could be causing this?
 
It sounds like you may not be adding the object libraries into P3D. Adding them to ADE just adds information about them. To get them to show in sim you need to have the library and textures in active folders in the sim itself
 
The Airport scenery is contained in a single main folder with sub folders for "scenery" and "texture". That main folder is an active folder in the scenery library, so, yes, they are active in P3D.
 
Have you got Split Compile checked so that the objects are in a separate bgl file and if so is that installed alongside the airport bgl file?
 
Yes I do, however when those two bgl's are introduced and the scenery is loaded into the sim, what I get then are only the original default buildings, none of the custom buildings are visible.
 
Hi Ed:

Possibly this may be a scenario comparable to one I helped someone with a few days ago. :scratchch

A newbie to FS scenery development had just installed ADE v1.65xxx, and had not recognized that when the ADE "Split Compile" option was checked in the ADE settings [File paths] dialog, one needed to explicitly set the path where ADE was going to output scenery object placement files, and start ADE with Administrative permissions ...in order for the output BGL(s) to be written to (and displayed from) the desired "active" folder path location.

The desired "active" folder path location also needed to be manually added as an "active" folder path location in the FSX Scenery Library GUI.

Obviously you may already know this, but it was something which I had to think through again as I had not set up a "new" install of ADE in years.

Also, if the "excludes" used for the older buildings in the converted airport were made in BGLComp XML, one might not see the new buildings unless the BGL containing those excludes is in either the same layer (with a ex: 'z_' prefix on the file name so that it loads last), or a higher layer in the scenery library GUI ...than the converted airport and scenery object placement BGLs.

Hope these ideas might help ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Are these FS9 objects? Is so a lot of them don't work in FSX. I am not an expert on this but certainly I recall issues - in some cases it is textures that don't show and in others they don't work. If it is possible to get hold of these objects then I could test here to see if I can get them to show up.
 
Jon, they were FS9 objects that were then recompiled to work in FSX. I'm assuming the use of Arno's MCX was the way it was accomplished. My initial thought, since I'm using P3D_2.5+ was that very scenario. . .that maybe these objects simply weren't compatible with P3D. The fella I'm assisting though is using FSX, so they should work. Also, another note: prior to the compile process, the ADEX file is 404kb. . .after the compile process the file is reduced to 13kb.
 
You mean the ADE project file changes size after you compile it? or the resulting bgl file - I am a bit lost now. Can we recap
  • How did this project start? An FS9 bgl file or a series of them
  • How did the objects get into the ADE file? You say they are black boxed so you either have a project file or you have imported something into the airport bgl file or the airport bgl file was originally created with ADE and has the objects in it
  • Have you tested this custom objects in any other way to be sure they display in FSX?
If it is possible for me to get hold of the original file(s) then perhaps I can help but I am sloshing about in the dark now :(
 
You mean the ADE project file changes size after you compile it? or the resulting bgl file - I am a bit lost now. Can we recap
  • How did this project start? An FS9 bgl file or a series of them
  • How did the objects get into the ADE file? You say they are black boxed so you either have a project file or you have imported something into the airport bgl file or the airport bgl file was originally created with ADE and has the objects in it
  • Have you tested this custom objects in any other way to be sure they display in FSX?
Click to expand...
The resulting bgl is reduced. . .it comes in as 404kb and the resulting bgl after compiling is reduced to 13kb
The original scenery (before it was reworked and uploaded for FSX use) was an FS9 Scenery encompassing more than a dozen airports in and around Finland. Another individual took that scenery and recompiled the airports to work in FSX, probably using MCX to recompile. Those airports were converted using ADE so that this current version of those airports are all ADEX files.

Yes the custom objects, when I first loaded one airport to work on were shown as black boxes. I opened the Scenery Object Manager, located the scenery folder for those airports and had ADE go through each bgl and load those scenery objects. When completed I saved the work, closed ADE and then restarted again, opened that airport and "all" custom objects now displayed correctly, showing that ADE now recognized all the scenery objects from it's database.

prior to doing any work in ADE I loaded the specific airport (EFJO) that needed additional parking places added to it. . .when it loaded, all custom objects displayed correctly. However once that AFCAD was loaded into ADE and modified by adding new parking spots, saved and compiled again for use in the scenery, the bgl size was reduced as I've mentioned a few times and all custom objects were gone.

Here is a link to the complete zip file:

https://app.box.com/s/3ghfphbeu5kw3qkcnjg6uv1v890kxwxx
 
OK Thanks

So if I load EFJO into FSX I should see the custom buildings. If I now edit it with ADE and recompile it then I should see them gone? I will try and replicate your process and let you know how I get on
 
So if I load EFJO into FSX I should see the custom buildings. If I now edit it with ADE and recompile it then I should see them gone? I will try and replicate your process and let you know how I get on
Click to expand...
Yes, that should be the way it goes. . .thanks for taking the time to test it Jon.
 
If I may add my 2¢ worth here.

I am trying to modify an airport made by someone else for FS9.The airport has custom objects in a library separate from the airport file.

When I went to compile the airport I was presented with this screen...
ADE black boxes.JPG


Two things here, 1) I clicked on "Yes" and the unknown objects did not get compiled with the airport.

2) There is no "Settings > Project Properties" to go to so I can check or change this setting. There is a Settings > Program Options > Project tab, it does not have any choice to compile or not compile unknown objects.

ADE9 version 1.66.5555.24351

cheers,
Lane
 
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OK, now it is getting weird.

Looking further into this I decided to turn on Exclusions in the ADE display.

I saw a bunch of micro excludes (7mX7m) and one big one that covered the entire airport.

I deleted the big exclude, compiled the airport and now have the unknown objects back.

So it seems the problem with my files was that exclude that covered the entire airport.

Maybe this info will help sort Ed's problem out.

cheers,
Lane
 
The first thing I see is that the file EFJO_ADEX_JH.bgl contains models - presumably the custom models for the airport. Loading this bgl into ADE will strip the models (perhaps there should be a warning - I need to look at that). So if you are replacing the original bgl file with one of your own then you will have removed the models from FSX and they are no longer available to show.

There are two options in this and other similar cases:
  • Do not overwrite the original bgl file nor add a revised one in the same folder. Instead compile your revision to an active scenery area higher than the original. I keep an active scenery area that is always at the top (#1 in the list) and I use that folder for this kind of thing. I would recommend this approach since it is generally not good practice to replace existing files since you cannot always be sure what is in them. Adding a revised bgl at a higher priority lets FSX do the work of deciding what to display based on the bgl files it sees. This article on priority may be of interest: https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199760-priority-matters
  • Use Bgl2Xml GUI or similar tool to extract the mdl files and put them back into the new project. This is fiddly and time consuming.
There is a reason that ADE does not extract model files - it is not just a missing feature. A lot of developers want to embed their models to make it less easy for them to be used by others in different sceneries so we decided to do the strip. I do think that perhaps there needs to be a warning which I will look at adding since at the moment there is not an easy way to know.

If that is the issue here then we are hopefully done. If not then let me know and I will dig deeper.

BTW the stripping of the models will explain the change in bgl size.
 
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Jon, that is excellent information and I have passed that on to the individual working on changing this one airport. I want to thank you for taking the time to answer these questions and for the time it took to load the scenery and run the testing required. Much appreciated.
 
falcon409 said:
Jon, that is excellent information and I have passed that on to the individual working on changing this one airport. I want to thank you for taking the time to answer these questions and for the time it took to load the scenery and run the testing required. Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

No problem. It actually touches on a grey area in ADE and the way it works. I have added it to the work list with the ref 11118
 
I certainly appreciate all the hard work and care associated with creating, updating, and supporting ADE. :wizard:


I can see the dilemma presented to ADE when it encounters a "hybrid" airport BGL which contains placement info for default or 3rd party add-on scenery library objects that are also not packaged inside the airport BGL (and which are essentially not specific to the "airport facilities code" and "approach code").

I can see an even greater dilemma presented to ADE when it encounters a "hybrid" airport BGL which contains the scenery object MDLs themselves along with placement info for those objects (both of which are essentially not specific to the "airport facilities code" and "approach code").


AFAIK, ADE only "copies" XML code from a pre-existing de-compiled Airport Facilities Data (aka "AFD") BGL and creates a new working set of AFD intended to replace (or in some cases "supplement") the original airport for a desired FS9 or FSX version.

As a convenience, ADE may retain object placement data and display "placeholders" for such placed objects in its 2D workspace, and create 'mini-excludes' for other scenery objects.

As a further convenience, ADE may display the alert Lane cited above if MDLs for 'placed' objects are not yet added to ADE's scenery object list.


IIUC, ADE is currently being programmed to neither extract such MDLs into a stand-alone scenery object library BGL with an associated scenery library object placement BGL, or to retain them via the de-compiled / copied BGLComp XML code with the associated scenery library object placement code ...used to create a new working set of AFD intended to replace (or in some cases "supplement") the original airport.


However, ADE is otherwise offering to display "placeholders" for the objects with a non-specific alert message that the objects themselves are not yet available via the ADE scenery object list.

Perhaps ADE could also offer to substitute FS default object placements for "custom" objects which it is reticent to extract and/or copy (...and then write the object substitution placement code out into a separate scenery library object placement BGL via ADE's existing "split compile" routine) ? :scratchch


PS:

Apparently the BGLComp SDK allows mixing both airport-specific and non-airport-specific data types into a hybrid BGL which FS is willing to display.

Because such non-standard 3rd party airport BGLs containing MDLs and/or MDL-placement code not specific to the "airport facilities code" and "approach code" tend to result in troubleshooting issues for end users trying to "replace" those airports, and because such non-standard 3rd party airport BGLs tend to cause occasional "crashes" when processed via ex: ADE or AFX (requiring more programming by airport utility developers to work around causes of such crashes), IMHO the practice of creating such "hybrid" airport / non-airport object BGLs ...should be deprecated in the FS Development Community. :banghead:

GaryGB
 
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The ability of an end user to custom configure their installation of FS, and enhance their installation through customization by "replacement" or loading of additional add-ons which can be used at the discretion of the end user ...is essential to the flight simming experience, and IMHO, making that process of customization possible and easy to do ...is in the best interests of the FS Community as a whole.

Having the option to make the FS rendering of one's local airport more like the real world (or how we imagine it could be) is probably one of the most appreciated aspects of ones flight sim experience; and some who learn how to do that go onto become skilled scenery developers.


There are thousands of airports in the world waiting to be enhanced into something of value to an end user and/or the greater FS community; improving all the airports of the FS world would be a good thing, and it will require "crowd-sourcing" ...by thousands of aspiring developers. :pushpin:


Thus, I believe it is in the best interests of the FS Community as a whole, that scenery NOT be developed in a manner that prevents even a casual user from being able to customize and/or enhance their scenery, and that "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".;)


When developers use the above cited methods which are "non-standard" (and I use that term since AFAIK, ACES saw fit to NOT use those methods to make the many thousands of default airports shipped with MSFS), working around crashes and development methods that utilize obscure incidental technicalities in the FS SDK compilers is IMHO more likely to be a source of trouble for end users, and an increased burden of work for programmers of ex: airport facility utilities such as ADE and/or AFX. :redflag:

[EDITED]

PS: The original scenario that demonstrated multiple types of complications which can result when "hybrid" airport BGLs are created), and which was the basis for this inquiry by Ed Wells (aka "falcon409") ...is discussed in this thread at sim-outhouse (aka "SOH"):

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...arking-places-without-loosing-library-objects

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
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