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Decompiling default Afcad with ADE illegal

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EULA states:

"Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by applicable law notwithstanding this limitation."

Therefore decompiling, modifying or compiling default Afcad with ADE, even for your own purposes, is illegal. Have you been aware of that?
 
Well technically George using the SDK is forward engineering the product by using source code and a compiler provided by Microsoft. It must be that we cannot reverse engineer the existing software product which generally means the program rather than the file formats. So don't reverse engineer any version of Microsoft Flight Simulator itself. Also s far as I know Microsoft don't own the copyright on the Bgl format which I guess is why they never made it officially available.

At this point I am going say that none of us are lawyers and if you are concerned about the legality of what you are doing then don't do it. I would also point out that at no time ever have Microsoft or the owner of the Bgl copyright enforced any ban on those who have figured out the format of the Bgl file. So if the OP is concerned that they are breaking the law then I am sure they will stop doing it.

I should also point out that we do not encourage discussion of legal matters here since they are best left to lawyers who get paid vast sums of money to create incomprehensible documents that require other lawyers to charge even greater sums to internet. So please do not engage in a discussion on the EULA of Microsoft or any other organization
 
SDK is provided by Microsoft and therefore not prohibited. The limitations concern just 3rd party tools.
 
SDK is provided by Microsoft and therefore not prohibited. The limitations concern just 3rd party tools.

Then I am sure you will stop using them right now.
 
Then I am sure you and all the other 30,000 or so users of ADE will stop using it right now if you think it infringes this legal document.
 
Then I am sure you and all the other 30,000 or so users of ADE will stop using it right now if you think it infringes this legal document.
I don't think anything. I just asked whether it's right or not. The question occured in an other forum and related to JABBgl, BTW.
 
I don't think anything. I just asked whether it's right or not. The question occured in an other forum and related to JABBgl, BTW.

JABBgl is a hex editor that changed the altitude of an airport. It did this within the FS stock airport bgl which ACES said in past post that is a no-no.
 
@Jon and others: This is a nonsense discussion. As you already said, the program code is left untouched. ADE and a lot of other tools (and extensions) are just interfacing the original FS code. :alert: Don't feed the tr...:censored:
 
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Therefore decompiling, modifying or compiling default Afcad with ADE, even for your own purposes, is illegal. Have you been aware of that?

Your statement does not make any sense. AFCAD (Acronym for Airport Facility Computer Aided Design) is not a stock FS airport but a Utility that enhances the parking spots and ground movement of the USER and AI Planes at airports.

Even if we did use the word afcad for a stock FS airport, ADE unlike JABBgl does not tamper with any stock FS bgl but follows the same principle for enhancing airports that has been used since the early days of FS2002.
 
OK. For the avoidance of doubt I will say that my 'opinion' on this is that it is not OK to hack or modify stock files with and tool that results in changing the content of that file. It is OK to make a copy of that information for use in a tool such as ADE or AFX or AFCAD. And then modify the copy in such a way that it does not alter the original. If it wasn't then given that we have been doing this for at least the past 10 years someone would have said something by now ;)

Several of us over the past have had several conversations with the ACES guys (when they existed) and I suppose I could characterize the responses along the lines of - we can't help you understand the file format but what you do own your own is not our concern.

I hope that clears things up as far as we need to. JABBgl is something else entirely and outside the scope of this forum
 
Jon, as someone who has spent a large part of his business life licensing intellectual property rights, I'd like to offer the following comments.

Every modern, user-oriented, application software license agreement/EULA contains words to the effect "you are not permitted to dis-assemble, decompile or reverse engineer this software product" and limits copying and further distribution of the software. Every software vendor knows someone will do those things anyway. Yet they still release their products and, generally, nobody gets sued. While notionally prohibiting the noted acts, those words in the EULA are primarily for the protection of the vendors and allow them to take action should they suffer harm (in the legal sense) as a consequence of users' acts. And, further down in the EULA is usually a much more wordy provision entitled (Limitation of) Liability, where licensors absolve themselves of any and all responsibility for (use and) misuse of the software.

Most major utilities directed at expanding the capabilities of FlightSim could not exist without some technical breach of the usage terms of the Flightsim EULA, whether by the developer him/herself or the (prohibited) reverse-engineering efforts of others. These include Lee Swordy's AFCAD and TTools, your ADE, many of Arno's tools, my AIFP, SAMM and AFLT, and so on. Also, users of our utilities are, perhaps unknowingly, breaching the terms of their Flightsim EULAs, since the execution our utilities involves prohibited acts. But has Microsoft objected? No! Instead, it's helped us, both directly and with the SDKs. Why? Because not objecting to these technical violations has allowed them to avoid the costs of developing similar functionality themselves and, at the same time, have made their products more attractive. Far from being harmed, they have benefited from our efforts. Why would they "shoot the Golden Goose" (or geese)?

In addition to the terms discussed above, Lockheed Martin's P3D EULAs expressly limit use of the Professional version to "purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment" and of the Academic version to "Academic Education", a defined term that does not include personal/consumer entertainment. Do you think most P3D users are fooling anyone? LM even hosts large user forums on its website!

As noted above, software EULAs are primarily for the protection of vendors. However, no vendor is going to take action against a user unless it has suffered real harm and expects to recover damages in excess of its costs for the action. Lawsuits are expensive and damages must be proven. We haven't caused, and are not causing, any harm. Quite the opposite! Microsoft and LM know what we're doing/have done and tacitly condone it. (Should someone breach the EULAs in a manner that harms Microsoft or Lockheed Martin - which is what the EULAs are intended to address - I'm sure you'd see a different reaction.)

I'm not suggesting license terms be flagrantly disregarded. Far from it! However, pro forma license terms sometimes have unintended, adverse effects for both parties. When that happens, common sense usually prevails - as would seem to be the case here. So, let's not worry about this and, instead, continue to enjoy our hobby. The alternative is to discard virtually every add-on (sceneries, aircraft and utilities) we have ever acquired and use Flightsim just as it was delivered by Microsoft, or, in the case of P3D, send it back and ask for a refund. How would that benefit Microsoft or Lockheed Martin?

Don
 
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Thank you Don. That is probably the best summation of the pragmatic and reality of this subject I have seen and if this arises again in the future (which I expect it might) I for one will refer back to this post.
 
I fully agree with you, Jon. Might this also be understood by those who brought up the whole thing in an other Flight Simulator Forum and obvisouly are also regular guests here!

Thanks for spending time and finally having been very clearly. It wasn't a nonsense discussion ...

Bernard
 
Thanks Bernard. No it certainly wasn't a nonsense discussion
 
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