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Having problems with only one model ...

O

old_wombat

Messages
70
Country
australia
Hello Arno. I have been using MCX 1.30 for a while now, and all is going well, except for this one model. I got it from FlightSim.com, the zip file is amundsen.zip, and the problem is very strange. The file opens and displays OK, it seems to convert OK, but when I open the newly converted file, the model has ... well ... sort of "exploded", into two pieces. That is, some of its component pieces are correct, whilst the others have been rotated about an axis. So it's like half the ship is OK, the other half is either vertical, or sometimes upside down. I have tried many, many variations (convert to FS9.FSX, MDL/BGL) and the end result is always the same.

I have tried using MCX 1.40 on this, which is very slow going, because my laptop doesn't support OpenGL properly. It produces the same results / problem. I can't use the latest development release, because that wants me to update .NET, and that I cannot do on this laptop.

I had big plans for this ship. I was going to have a "pretty" blue and white version for touring the Great Barrier Reef with David Attenborough's deep sea submersible, an all-orange one for looking for oil in Antarctica, - and therefore being attacked by Greenpeace vessels - and a Battleship Grey version for the US Navy for recovering a suspected crashed UFO from the depths of the Pacific Ocean (that's classified). To do all this I would need to change some of the fixed (ie, non-textured) colours, and I can't do that if I can't save the model correctly.

Here is a sample screen grab of what I mean. Here it is in partly converted Gray textures.

Cheers.

Steve from Murwillumbah (formerly from Mudgee)
 

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If you simply want to change textures, you can edit those in Photoshop and have the same mapped textures appear differently on the model, much like unique liveries and if you actually need to access the model, you can export it to .3ds. If you first save the textures in .jpg format to the same folder as the .3ds, their mappings will be preserved through the next step, however animations like rotating antenna can't be saved in .3ds format. If you then import the .3ds model to SketchUp (remember to place it right on "the origin"), you can edit the geometry and texture mappings, export to .dae, which MCX will recognize and import. From there you can export to any format supported, geometry preserved.
If you are very, very tricky, you can probably isolate the moving parts from the original model, reorient them if necessary (it will be a simple 90 degree rotation if it is even required); delete these from the exported model, then after you have corrected the geometry issue by going through Sketchup, you can recombine the animations with your edited model.
 
old_wombat said:
Hello Arno. I have been using MCX 1.30 for a while now, and all is going well, except for this one model. I got it from FlightSim.com, the zip file is amundsen.zip, and the problem is very strange. The file opens and displays OK, it seems to convert OK, but when I open the newly converted file, the model has ... well ... sort of "exploded", into two pieces. That is, some of its component pieces are correct, whilst the others have been rotated about an axis. So it's like half the ship is OK, the other half is either vertical, or sometimes upside down. I have tried many, many variations (convert to FS9.FSX, MDL/BGL) and the end result is always the same.

I have tried using MCX 1.40 on this, which is very slow going, because my laptop doesn't support OpenGL properly. It produces the same results / problem. I can't use the latest development release, because that wants me to update .NET, and that I cannot do on this laptop.

I had big plans for this ship. I was going to have a "pretty" blue and white version for touring the Great Barrier Reef with David Attenborough's deep sea submersible, an all-orange one for looking for oil in Antarctica, - and therefore being attacked by Greenpeace vessels - and a Battleship Grey version for the US Navy for recovering a suspected crashed UFO from the depths of the Pacific Ocean (that's classified). To do all this I would need to change some of the fixed (ie, non-textured) colours, and I can't do that if I can't save the model correctly.

Here is a sample screen grab of what I mean. Here it is in partly converted Gray textures.

Cheers.

Steve from Murwillumbah (formerly from Mudgee)
Click to expand...
This problem is due to scaling and coordinate errors in the source file.
 
loaded and exported, just out of curiosity. no problema. are you exporting for Fs9 ? in this case maybe different. anyway I suggest to use de dev. versión of MCX.
If you just want to change textures. not needed to export. just edit the textures in any image editor. not being you want to créate a texture template.
Edit: sorry I forgot the problem with the .NET update.
 
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He wants to change non textured colors, which means he has to use MCX. I believe that some FS9 aircraft/objects will still display incorrectly in MCX at this point (1.3 or 1.4), so there is little he can do.
 
tgibson said:
I believe that some FS9 aircraft/objects will still display incorrectly in MCX at this point (1.3 or 1.4), so there is little he can do.
Click to expand...
Except export to .3ds, import to SketchUp, export to .dae and import to MCX to edit freely, as described in more detail above.
Edit: Actually, I just had the same experience as Bernardo; export, re-imported no problem, so, not sure what the issue is.
 
Ya, WTH Steve? At least I am consistent - for barely even remembering you; does this mean I am going to have to remember to watch out for Steve from something and his Amundsen every 14 months or so?
 
Yes, it is the "same" problem as 14 months ago, but at that time I had not actually used the model in scenery. Now I have. Well I tried to. The moment the Amundsen ship appears, the sim almost freezes - the frame rate drops to about 1.1 frames per second, and the CPU gets so hot that I get a burning smell and have to shutdown. So the bad boy model is unuseable.

But I persisted. Tried the excellent suggestion of identifying and removing the bad part. Well again, I tried to. There are two somethings below the waterline that won't highlight. In Heirarchy Viewer, even if I select ScenGraphNode so the whole ship goes red, those two somethings don't highlight. ANd even if I laboriously select each ModelPart in turn, they never highlight. So I can't remove them. And I'm still down to an unflyable 1.1 fps withg that model.

I placed the ship 200 metres in the air to make sure that the "underwater" part was above water. That made no difference - still 1.5 fps.

As for watching for Steve from somewhere-or-other with his Amundsen every 14 months, well you may have to (or of course choose not to). Almost every day I get confronted with yet another example of how the chemo is messing with my head more than I "think" it does :(.

I'm also very confused by some of the replies (I am easily confused). With great authority, we have one opinion that the model DOES have a problem (scaling and coordinates mentioned). Then we have another opinion, with equal authority, that he exported and re-imported with no problems, suggesting that the model DOESN't have any problems. Now both of those can't be true at the same time.

Still no closer to a solution than 14 months ago... But I will try to stagger down the Sketchup path. If I can get 111MB (bloatware much ????) down the the dongle.

Edit: Well that was a waste of 114MB download : ""Installation of SketchUp requires Windows 7 or later." I'm on Win XP on the laptop and cant move from there even if I wanted to - which I don't.
 
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Steve I'm of the belief that a large portion of your issue arises from your insistence to use WinXP. To help dispel the confusion: the model works as intended for several of us, myself included. I can take the basic .bgl, modify it however I please, export it to whatever format I please and re-import it into MCX with no issues whatsoever. It also works this way for Tejal Bernardo. Paul wrote that the problem is due to scaling and coordinate errors in the source file. Paul did not test the model, nor confirm that he encountered any errors. None of us use Windows XP.
I would say that in order to do this stuff, model editing and what have you, you would have to become relevant in a fairly current software state, it's only fair to the rest of us.
 
My supposition that there are scaling and coordinate errors, well in this case just coordinate, is based on my early learning experience. I had gMax and 3ds Max 7 and running Windows XP. I would build my models in Max 7 but could not compile to FS9 directly. I had to export in 3ds format and load it into gMax to compile a FS9 model. It was then that I noticed that parts of my model would be rotated out of position or distorted in size. Of course the problem was errors in my original Max 7 model. Once I understood what was going on it was a simple fix. And that explains my post above.
 
For reasons beyond the scope of this post, I cannot move off Win XP on my laptop. Thank you everyone for your efforts. I will find and use another boat. Let us draw a veil over this whole sad affair.
 
Ok here's a final idea to try and granted I am not overly confident, but it might work for you. The issue might be one of resources, most models work for your set-up because they do not over tax the system, Amundsen goes wonky because it is too complex. You could try isolating the components you want to work with and see if those alone orient correctly. Then when you are done I'll compile the model. The author did not include provisions about copyright so I wouldn't be violating any directive to run it through the compiler for you. So if you can get all your parts together I'll get you your ship. I'm not setting up any sort of chop shop here, I just want to get Steve down the road with his decent ship model.
 
It is very kind of Rick to offer his help to Steve for this project. :wave:


FYI: Sketchup version-8 (32-bit) is the last version allowed to be used for both freeware and commercial purposes without a license.

The original version-8 package is the 'fastest' working build compared to newer "Make" or 2013 / 2014 / 2015 / 2016 and/or 64-bit versions, and can be downloaded here:

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/google-sketchup-8-0-16846


BTW: AFAIK, that is the last issued and most current updated Sketchup version 8 released:

http://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49608


NOTE: Sketchup version-8 can run on Windows-XP if desired, although some (optional) plugin Ruby scripts may use DLLs that require more recent Windows component functions, and some dialog GUIs may require newer versions of Internet Explorer.


PS: When Google transferred Sketchup to Trimble, some server addresses changed for the Geolocation feature, and a simple fix must be implemented by the end user in order for that to function properly: :alert:

https://help.sketchup.com/en/article/3000180


Hope this helps in case anyone here wishes to use Sketchup version-8 under its intended EULA, and also wishes to do so on Windows-XP. ;)

GaryGB
 
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Wow, you guys are more persistent than I am, thank you for that (my wife thinks you guys are all great for helping me).

Rick: Thank you for your offer, but (1) I would really want "all" of the components of the ship (he says in a whiney voice); and (2) what you suggest, on my laptop, due to its OpenGL issues, would take a couple of hours to do, during which time I would be working "blind" as the display lags so much; and (3) as you say, there is no guarantee of success. So I will decline your generous offer.

Gary: Thank you for that link. I got that Sketchup8, and ... almost total success. I followed the procedure in Rick's first post: Convert all seven textures to jpg, export the original bgl to .3ds, import to sketchup (where it doesn't show up as textured, and how go I get rid of the nice brunette girl "permanently"?), export to .dae (> 13MB !!!), import into MCX.... and it worked fine ! No "exploded" parts. It has lost a bit of detail, but I can live with that. I have made my all-orange version, and it's OK. So now onwards to the other colours.
 
Hi Steve:

Be certain that you set the export path in MCX for texture image file output to the exact same folder as the exported *.3DS file. :pushpin:

Also, be certain that the texture filenames to be exported by MCX are in 8.3 file format (filename no longer than 8 characters, with a 3 character file extension), as IIUC, *.3DS files do not support 32-bit long filenames for internally-mapped textures, nor for the *.3DS filename itself. :alert:


Perhaps others here more familiar with how to achieve successful retention / restoration of mapped textures on a *3DS export from MCX when imported into Sketchup might offer Steve (and other interested readers) a step-by-step workflow for this process ? :teacher:


PS: What is the manufacturer of the laptop computer and the integrated on-board graphics chipset / GPU which it utilizes ? :scratchch


GaryGB
 
Gary, we're still misunderstanding each other slightly. The survival of mapping of textures through the conversions is fine - in fact more than that, it is "perfect". So much so that I have been pleasantly surprised at how well the BMP -> JPG -> BMP conversions have preserved the detail in the images. All that has been "lost" has been the filenames, which hardly matters. Perhaps if I had 8.3 filenames to start with that would not have happened, perhaps it would have - but again, that's not important now.

It is the detail of the parts in the model.mdl file itself that has been eroded. For example, the handrail details have gone. And the searchlight body is not round any more, it's sort of "rounded pentagonal" in cross-section. Sort of. But again, it's not a big deal. You'd have to fly really close to the ship to see that. And I'm not going to fly that close to the ship in an F-14 Tomcat :)


My laptop is a Toshiba, perhaps about ten years old. According to DxDiag, the graphics is/are :

Card name: ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M Series
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: ATI display adapter (0x5A62)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Display Memory: 64.0 MB
 
When you export to 3DS, all polygons are "exploded" - they have no shared vertices with other polygons. Therefore all smoothing is lost. In GMAX you select all vertices, set the Weld Threshold very small (0.005), and Weld all the vertices. Then select all relevant polygons and smooth them (I normally use Auto Smooth). Now things will look round again.

Hope this helps,
 
If anyone is still monitoring this page, perhaps you might appreciate some irony here. Only last week, whilst you were all helping me with this ship, our Government signed a contract, worth nearly $2 billion over 30 years, for ... a new Antarctic ship! Here is the one and only image of it I have been able to find. Maybe I should write to Julie Bishop's office and suggest as name for it? In light of the (now rejected) "Boaty McBoatface" that the British people went for, I was going to go with some Austen Tayshus humour ... "Great, Barry, A Reefer"!


.
New AA.jpg
 
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