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Is there a tutorial on creating airports

jgarnold

jgarnold

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australia
Does anyone know of where I would find a GOOD tutorial either text or video which explains how to create an airport especially the use of exclude polygons and if there is a particular order for adding those polygons?

I have an airport which shows land texture in areas where I have other polygons which should be masking that texture. These texture areas are only a small part of where I have my land polygons.
I have tried adding exclusion rectangles and also tried using polygons with 'tags' such as 'exclude autogen' etc WITHOUT success. Also does it matter if polygons overlap each other slightly?

In desperation I installed a fresh copy of FSX (nothing but FSX installed) to an old PC I have and added my airport and the it also displays these 'rogue' land textures where I have polygons.

Lastly how do I find if a scenery file I may have added for airports nearby could be affecting my airport?
 
Thanks Ray

Not sure if the airport scanner will find what I was looking for as I don't think that I had a duplicate airport. I have a fresh copy of FSX installed with nothing else added only my airport.
It seems to me that it is default FSX scenery but adding exclude polygons doesn't fix it.
Its driving me mad trying to solve what the problem is and that is why I posted this thread hoping for a link to a tutorial which might lead me to the cause.
 
What airport are you trying add? is this a stock one you modified or someones addon scenery? what exactly are you trying to exclude? maybe upload a pic so we can see your problem
when you did a fresh install did you also remove/delete any old folders left behind as well?
out of interest did you originally have ORBX installed at all? if you did did you delete those folders before the fresh install
 
I am trying to create a NEW WATER airport and surrounding area for a place which exists in the real world but no stock FSX airport. It is NEW. Not a modification to either a sto ck FSX airport or someone elses airport. Also the stock FSX scenery in the area is just trees instead of a town and the FSX coordinates for the shoreline is not the same as in the real world.
Here is what the stock FSX area looks like and the same area from Google Earth. Maybe I just should have left the general FSX scenery and added polygons for the township and scenery objects fro the docks but I wanted to have the shoreline look a bit more realistic looking.
Should have I started with an exclude all polygon or rectangle and added water and land polygons on top of the exclude? The runway is a water runway.

I did have some ORBX scenery installed on the old FSX installation which I uninstalled and the new FSX is on a completely different SSD disk.
I did NOT deleted any of the old FSX folders (which are on a different disk). Could they still be interfering?

sec_fsx.jpg
sec_google earth.jpg


Here is a 'satellite' view of my FSX water airport showing land textures in my water polygon which I am trying to remove.

se_problems.jpg
 
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John,
I'll try and get this in the right order as it's been years since I've done this.......
the first poly will be "Exclude General/tag: Water Polys" this will remove the water and give you a land tile instead of water, place a small one in the harbour where you want a new shore line,
if you are unlucky you may need 2 excludes where the tiles join
then you'll need to redraw the water and your new coastline over the land tile where required, use "Water/tag: Ocean perennial" i think setting it to zero altitude
then finally you can add/draw a "Shore line" once you have the water in the right position
if this is not correct and i've missed a step i'm pretty sure someone will correct me so you "can" get it right :)

if you had any folders left over it would have paid to delete them on a fresh install, as i do not know if ORBX modifies any "Stock" files when installing their scenery's, if you have done the fresh install on another drive then it should be ok
 
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Thanks Ray

Looks good. It's going to create a lot of work with using the 'exclude water polys' as it removes a lot of water both further up the bay and also on the other side of the land where the ocean is and I will have to create a much larger water poly for the bay as well as the part of the ocean.
Refer following images of 'before exclude' and 'after exclude'. Oh well it'll give me something to do.

Also I tried adding a 'general exclude water polys' and also a 'general exclude shorelines' to my original airport and it did the same thing (as expected) so I will try the other things you also suggested.

se_before_excl.jpg


se_after_exclude.jpg
 
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Well I started a new airport.
I created an image of the area from Google Earth and added it using ADD IMAGE so that I could follow the shorelines reasonably accurately.
I then added a General Exclude water and General Exclude shorelines, compiled and checked the result. As expected the water and shorelines disappeared for the respective FSX scenery tile.
I then added a water polygon using my Google Earth image for guidance. compiled and checked the result running FSX.
The problem I experienced before is back - land textures jutting into my water area. You can see the edge of where my water polygon is and the texture where the land juts into the water is different from the main land texture. I tried placing a flatten polygon over the area which did not fix it.

BUT I have found what seems to be affecting it. Mesh Complexity and/or Mesh Resolution (in settings for scenery).
I had mine set to 75 and 38m respectively. When I reduced them to 40 and 76m respectively the problem (land of a different texture) disappeared.

I now need to find out what these two (scenery settings) affact and how they can cause problems (or if they should cause problems).
 
Hi John:

To assist would-be helpers to help you better, IIUC, are the threads you refer to ...these ? : :scratchch

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...irport-background-polygon.438434/#post-755702

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/need-guidance-how-to-create-a-water-taxiway.438126/



PS: Also, since you are experiencing issues related to terrain involving both land and water scenery content, even though you have created this airport "new" because it is not in the FS default list of supplied "stock" airports, please understand that someone attempting to help you achieve successful scenery customization will need to know the Geographic coordinates of your project location in order to identify what FS default (and possibly custom) scenery files are to be dealt with.;)

[EDITED]

I just found another one of your prior thread posts that identifies your project location as Sechelt Waterdrome:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sechelt/Porpoise_Bay_Water_Aerodrome

https://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Sechelt/Porpoise_Bay_Water_Aerodrome&params=49_29_N_123_46_W_type:airport_region:CA-BC

9° 29′ 0″ N, 123° 46′ 0″ W

Google Maps / Google Earth / FS SDK TMFViewer "jump" coordinates:

49.483333, -123.766667

[END_EDIT]


I'm traveling right now and cannot participate, but I hope that clarifying the above history and location for this project may prove helpful in a small way. :)

GaryGBii
 
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There should be a pdf file in the Manuals\Tutoriald\ folder "ADEH_T2 - Paths Parking & Aprons_v3.pdf" which will take you through the basics.
 
Thanks Gary

Yes I started those other threads which were questions to help me solve a problem. Unfortunately although I received lots of replies and suggestions my problem wasn't solved.

This thread started as an attempt to find a tutorial which hopefully would have shown me where I may have gone wrong and to create an airport correctly instead of by trial and error.

Referring to my terrain problems was a migration in answer to something someone replied in this thread.

Sorry about not entering geographical co-ordinates but I didn't think it would matter and yes it is Sechelt Water Aerodrome but why would one location on earth be different to another when adding exclude polygons to get rid of stock landscape covering an entire tile and then adding water and land polygons? Anyway it seems that mesh settings (settings>scenery) has an affect as when I changed them my problem went away.
A full tutorial would be great as the manual (which is very very good) only seems to explain what each function of the program is for. Remember a dictionary describes the meaning of every word but doesn't tell you how to construct a sentence.

BTW Sechelt is NOT south east of Sechelt Gibbons it is north west of Sechelt Gibbons as Wikipedia advises - you can't believe everything you read:) Also whilst the aerodrome has been closed, the Sechelt Inlet/Porpoise Bay area is still used daily by private airline operators.

Thanks George for your suggestion. That allowed me to find a web site by ScruffyDuck which has HEAPS of tutorials (Hope other readers get help from this ) see http://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268
Also more at http://www.airportdesigneditor.co.uk/ade_010.htm
Without having read any as I type (I am hoping they will answer all the questions I had) I wished I had know, I wished I had known about them before I created this thread.http://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268
 
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John, be advised that altering land/water boundaries is not simple airport design; that would be taking a patch of land and putting runways there. Because of the way the simulator is coded, moving land in relation to water is tricky, moving water in relation to land requires advanced techniques. Ray hinted at that when he wrote, "I'll try to get this right" and you should take heed. I'm not trying to discourage you, I'd love to see you succeed and will help if I can, but there's not going to be any tutorial because the things you want to do are the kinds of things professionals do.

Also, ADE is probably not able to accomplish this for you. It is a great tool and I would prefer to be wrong, but in my experience - and I am currently, as I write developing an island scenery for P3D - ADE is not capable of creating the required polygons. For my work, I have to use SBuilderX to do the actual earthmoving and then ADE makes it pretty, essentially. It's kind of funny because I'm making an island in the South China Sea so I suppose SBX is my sand dredge and ADE my CCP. I make a small joke.

You would do well to read this post by Rhumbaflappy made many years ago but quintessentially encompassing your situation. Simply replace island with land mass. I advise you find and download SBuilderX by Luis Tirado and read the tutorial about making an island from the help section. The software is of a similar design and complexity to ADE (and price, remember to thank the author) and anyone familiar with one should have no trouble with the other.
 
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Wow thanks Rick, the first piece of information which appears to answer why I am having problems.
Yes I am trying to alter the water inlet/bay and surrounding land.
Maybe I won't bother BUT I did notice that altering the 'mesh' settings fixed the problem I was having so I will stick with those settings (must Google those mesh settings to find out exactly what results one might expect by changing them and if they have a noticeable affect on frame rates).
I totally agree that ADE is a great program and we are so lucky that it is freeware as it must have taken many hours to code.
I have SBuilderX and did see a tutorial on making an island somewhere (probably with SBuilderX) and I think that I remember creating an island once.

Thanks again
 
One of the truisms to remember is that the entire planet is first land, with water added. If you exclude the water, what will be remaining is land class, which could very well be a "water" class. Bear in mind that there are textures for water, the classes, and then there are attributes, like making a plane float. Photo derived scenery overrides much of the class system, but not the attributes. A process for islands is make an exclusion and then make a hole in it, within which is placed the edited land. ADE does not create polygon holes. "Mesh" is terrain elevation data that has been converted into flight sim format and that is it's only role, think of those rainbow satellite images. I control my elevations with polygons, for the most part.
I'm sure you'll get it with a little diligence, you've already tackled the worst part, understanding and now you know exactly what to look for to reach your goal.
 
Thanks Rick.
Regardless of what I said in my replies I am not now trying to create an island as I already have one for my inlet/bay.
I know understand though a little more than I did about land class which was probably zero.
And yes I had forgotten that mesh scenery files are there to create elevation and the downloadable ones are probably just to make the mountains etc more realistic looking (follow the earth contours more closely?).
 
Hi John:

In an effort to further address other questions closely-related to this project in a "central" location, I am replying here in this thread ...to another of your inquiries in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bgl2xml-returns-no-data.438464/#post-756000


As Tom explained in that thread, BGLs compiled by FS SDK BGLComp are a distinct and separate type from BGLs compiled by FS SDK SHP2VEC; these latter BGLs are referred to as 'CVX Vector' scenery files.



To visualize FS Base File info for your project area, see this FS SDK Document:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#Base_File_Information


That reference illustration indicates the FS default "Base Files" for your project area are in:

[FSX SDK install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\



FS default "local" terrain mesh file for your project area is:

[FSX SDK install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\dem0101.bgl



FS default CVX vector files for your project area are in (both):

[FSX SDK install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\cvx1414.bgl

[FSX SDK install path]\Scenery\0101\scenery\cvx1514.bgl


NOTE: When one observes the information displayed on the bottom status bar in TMFViewer, as the cursor is moved over your project area, one sees that scenery area is on the border between (2) separate local scenery area LOD-13 quad tiles.

Thus, depending on the extent of default FS scenery you intend to "exclude and replace", you may need to consider all scenery content provided by those FS default files when creating your own local custom scenery files. :pushpin:


To visualize the above cited FS default and/or custom BGL files pertinent to your project area, you may wish to open them all in FS SDK TMFViewer:

[FSX SDK install path]\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\TmfViewer.exe


TmfViewer can then be configured as follows:


TmfViewer Menu > View > check /un-check ...to enable / disable display of individual BGL files


TmfViewer Menu > View > LOD Grid > LOD-13 ...to enable display of LOD-13 quad grid


TmfViewer Menu > View > QMID Grid > QMID-11 ...to enable display of QMID-11 quad grid


BTW: In TMFViewer, right-click a vector poly-line / polygon for its GUID; correlate this with FS SDK docs:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#TheShp2VecTool

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#VectorAttributes

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526968.aspx


FYI: To view and/or otherwise use above cited FS default "Base Files" for your project area in SBuilderX to create precise, object-specific and/or quad area-wide exclusions and replacement vector scenery content for the local QMID-11 or smaller scenery area(s), you may wish to review the 'somewhat comparable' work-flow explained for excluding a FS default CVX vector object, for example, a airport background / boundary 'vector' polygon ...in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/create-small-slope-on-terrain.438028/#post-752117


Generally-speaking, using CVXExtractor to individually de-compile cvx1414.bgl and cvx1514.bgl, then exporting them as ESRI SHP files, will allow the above cited default FS CVX vector BGL scenery content for your project area to be "Appended" ...and utilized as a reference within SBuilderX over a downloaded satellite aerial imagery background image, along with your own local custom scenery content intended to be compiled for modification of (all) local FS scenery display in your project area. ;)


PS: You may- or may not- still have residual custom scenery files from 3rd party sources being processed by FS, if you have previously had any version of FSAddon Vancouver Plus and/or FTX PNW region or FTX Global, and/or FTX Vector or other add-on 'vector' and/or 'terrain mesh' scenery packages installed; if you do, those may require additional (and more complex) considerations to make your own custom scenery package display properly. :alert:


Hope these ideas might help with the learning process for working with default and custom CVX vector scenery object BGLs. :)

GaryGB
 
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Wow so much information and a big effort to type it in.
Thanks

Yes I now remember that I used SBuilderX to create a 'vector scenery file' after finding out that it was the best way to create an island. And 'LOD' etc is starting to come back into my mind.

The more I delve into things the more I am overwhelmed with FSX in general.

I realise that it is a progression from FS95, FS98 FS2000 etc but still the complexities of how scenery 'works' and the complexities of aircraft amazes me.

It seems IMHO that there was little in nothing left out which allows it to be "as real as it gets" - maybe SP1 and SP2 added some more 'complexity' to the original release. And what an industry it has created (scenery, aircraft and gauge builders, hardware etc etc).

I once paid for an hour in a flight simulator and it consisted of what appeared to be the 'panel'/glare shield, rudder pedals, thrust levers, center console, overhead console etc etc from a real B737 and what 'drove' it? Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX (I noticed that they had to 'boot up' and the FSX splash screen appeared on the monitors). Sure it did not move like those state of the art simulators airlines use which are on hydraulics but it was still very good.

Once again thanks. I have a heap to read.
 
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