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FSXA Photoscenery - how much overlap?

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783
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norway
Two questions:

I use Globalmapper to make my geotiff's. Sometimes the map can get rather (too) big. How do I split the map into several sections? OK, I can export two geotiff's from one map, but how do I get the overlap correct? I do not use SBuilder, but send my tiles to resample.exe directly, as they are big, often like 25000 x 12000 pixels (size reduced so that Photoshop is able to save as PSD).

Which leads to the next question:

What is the minimum overlap I must have for two adjacent photo tiles? Does it matter if the overlap is like 10 meters or so? I ask because I have not yet found a way to split a big map with high precision in Globalmapper.

Cheers,
:stirthepo
 
1. Use the Gridding tab to break down a large source into smaller pieces or just specify the export boundaries yourself.

2. I use .0001 additional area for overlap and leave it to Resample to do the rest.
 
Hello:

Although FSX SDK Resample will internally adapt to the extents of coverage possible with a GeoTiff source file using only a very basic submitted *.INF file, its image "re-sampling" routines are reportedly not as optimal as those available via some 3rd party graphics programs. ;)



You may wish to review these (and other) threads here at FS Developer for some additional info on optimal source sizing and related geographic extent considerations when working with FS SDK Resample: :idea:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9174&highlight=photocalc

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19823&highlight=photocalc

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20869&highlight=photocalc


[EDITED 10-25-2014]

You may also wish to consider using rhumbaflappy's "PhotoCalc" utility:

http://www.ludowise.x10host.com/

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1&id=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1!377

...Then navigate:

> rhumba's SkyDrive Files > rhumbaflappy Ludowise's SkyDrive > FS Addons > FS9 Tools > PhotoCalc > PhotoCalc.zip

rhumbaflappy Ludowise's OneDrive > FS Addons > FS9 Tools > PhotoCalc > PhotoCalc.zip



PS: Additionally, you may wish to pre-visualize what LODs are to be used, and calculate their required geographic extents of coverage on the ground for your photoreal aerial imagery when output from FSX SDK Resample, by initially using Google Earth in "Satellite" imagery mode with rhumbaflappy's "Google Tools" utility package:

http://www.ludowise.x10host.com/

https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1&id=F3950C5BBD2BCFA1!377

...Then navigate:

> rhumba's SkyDrive Files > rhumbaflappy Ludowise's SkyDrive > FS Addons > FSX Tools > GoogleTools > GoogleTools.zip

rhumbaflappy Ludowise's OneDrive > FS Addons > FSX Tools > GoogleTools > GoogleTools.zip



FYI: For a brief explanation of LOD Extents Calculator (aka "LEC") as implemented in rhumbaflappy's Google Tools utility package, see:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20499

[END_EDIT 10-25-2014]



Hope this helps ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Thanks a lot :)

I can get far by just splitting an airport into two tiles, by using the Globalmapper grid as a reference. I would not want to cover bigger areas, because there are also autogen to put in, coastlines to edit, and I live in Norway, which makes such things The Ultimative Nightmare ... so I stick to a runway or two, maybe a couple of cities.

This brings up one more question, do you guys use the geotiffs directly? Me, I always have a lot of editing to do (since I have started using 20cm and 10cm data for realistic aprons), so I save my bmps from a PSD file, after tons of editing. My tiles are often resized, since I need to go down to around 25000 x 12000 pixels, else, Photoshop won't save a PSD...

Is it OK using like 25000 x 12000 pixels for an airport, or should I (when the geotiff is like 70000 x 30000) ... split it into two tiles in order to get things sharper? It depends of course, on the base material, and I start to wonder I do not need to split, because a couple of my airports are very sharp just using a downsized PSD/BMP...

Sorry for all the extra questions, but I have to ask one more; been wondering about this too for a long time:

Do you edit the UTM material before it is reprojected to Geographic/WGS84? I have gotten used to edit the reprojected ones, but here up north they get very stretched, and maybe I want to edit the material before reprojecting. But I'm OK with if I can't ... getting tired of trial & failure ... :whiteflag

I notice SBuilder do not store reprojected pics, they are not stretched. So can I edit the UTM pic, and somehow send it to render.exe anyway? In that case, which metadata do I use, and which pic do I calculate xDim and yDim from?

I did a few trials. Got it right once, but the runway was slightly rotated ...

Cheers,
:stirthepo
 
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What? That's a jumbled posting to follow. Where's Gary to decipher it all for me? :p

I work with GeoTiffs until it's time to "clean them up", then the format ends up as BMPs. During the processing steps the source gets converted to the format that FSX wants (Geographic/WGS84) and a matching TFW file is generated with the GeoTiff. The TFW file gives me what I need to generate an INF file through a little program I wrote. My program needs to be expanded to include blend and water masks, as that's all done by hand editing of the program generated INF file. One of the steps I lovingly refer to as "mind numbing"!

Size of the file is what ever works best for you. Photoshop handles memory a lot better than another editor I use, but I like the other as I'm familiar with it.

For INF file information, when you reproject also include the TFW file and you will have your upper left corner data and cell dimensions.
 
Hi Andrew:

Google Earth / Google Maps, like most imagery tile servers, display maps in "Spherical Web Mercator - EPSG code 3857" which is "close" to UTM, but slightly different than UTM, and therefore is not warped / rotated by being displayed in a WGS84 datum format.

http://alastaira.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/the-google-maps-bing-maps-spherical-mercator-projection/



The imagery download for use as a "background map" in SBuilderX is thus displayed in the same original projection until processed for use with FSX SDK Resample to create custom photo-real land class tiles.


FYI: Refer to a Geo-TIFF's GIS information / Pixel Rows / Columns / Geo-referencing parameters and Projection in Global Mapper via:

Global Mapper Menu > Tools > Control Center > [select GeoTIFF aerial imagery layer of interest] > Metadata button



It is probably better to perform edits on aerial imagery in UTM projection, especially in areas farther North from the equator, as the WGS84 Datum is "warped" more in such locales.


However, ultimately, every source file must be "re-projected" to:

Geographic (Lon-Lat) Projection / WGS84 Datum / Arc Degrees Planar Units

...prior to being submitted to FSX SDK Resample.


CAVEAT: IMHO, before editing a GeoTIFF in a graphics app, it is best to:

1.) Back up the original GeoTIFF image file

2.) Backup the original GeoTIFF Geo-referencing info (aka "Geo-tags") and/or *.TFW "world" file

3.) Do not change the pixel dimensions (aka "Row / Column counts") from that of the original GeoTIFF, as the Geo-referencing and projection of the imagery in that GeoTIFF is inter-related with the original pixel dimensions.


After editing a Geo-TIFF in a graphics app:

1.) Restore the original GeoTIFF Geo-referencing info and/or *.TFW "world" file

2.) "Re-project" the Geo-TIFF(s) to:

Geographic (Lon-Lat) Projection / WGS84 Datum / Arc Degrees Planar Units

...prior to being submitted to FSX SDK Resample.


BTW: If you are slicing and/or merging segments of aerial imagery in GeoTIFF format via a graphics app (thereby changing the pixel dimensions aka "Row / Column counts" from that of the original GeoTIFF), those resulting saved images must be manually Geo-referenced / Geo-rectified when opened in Global Mapper.

NOTE: This extra step may reduce the geographic placement accuracy when output via FSX SDK Resample. :redflag:

IMHO, it may be best to instead, slice and/or merge segments of aerial imagery in Global Mapper while keeping the pixel dimensions of source GeoTIFFs unchanged during any editing.


To Backup and Restore the original GeoTIFF Geo-referencing info (aka "Geo-tags") and/or *.TFW "world" file info:

* Use a GIS Geo-tag / world file utility, such as the one in FWTools, as discussed in this WIKI:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=GeoTIFF_file_creation_with_FwTools


...and in this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354228&highlight=FWTools


IIRC, Lance has previously also linked to a 3rd party freeware GIS utility which can perform some helpful functions when working with GeoTIFFs, but I can't recall where to find that thread. :o

As Lance, Holger, and others have pointed out in other threads, a significant benefit of still creating *.INF files with explicit dimensional parameter values is that such dimensional parameter value info can otherwise be stored visibly in the *.INF file for future reference in creating derived (but sized identically to the original !) raster and/or vector content such as terrain masks etc. which need to be re-rectified after graphical processing.

This might be a preferred workflow ...rather than using a simplified *.INF file which defers to FSX SDK Resample's reading the internal Geo-Tags of the Geo-TIFF file during input processing of source files to identify what extents to use, but not documenting the processing parameters actually used anywhere that they can be later reviewed.


PS: Andrew, could you explain a bit more what you were referring to, when you mentioned "render.exe" ? :confused:


Hope this might help clarify a few things. :)

GaryGB
 
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LCsims, I have a jumbled mind at times :-)

Thank you guys - it does clarify a lot of things for me, and it is good to know I can use whatever resolution that suits me, or max of what Photoshop will swallow.

I do notice when using geotiffs like 25000 x 5000 pixels, it may sometimes get blurred. Maybe the remedy is to make a more square geotiff, meaning, filling in more data top/bottom? Say, more like 25000 x 10000. Then I guess the result will be less blurred, and less zigzag taxilines to see (from a distance).

Thanks to this forum, I learnt how to reproject my base material in the gem called Globalmapper, and then get the Geographic/WGS84 metadata, which I use to calculate xDim and yDim for (ouch) ... resample.exe. It has become second nature now, and I spit out couple of photoreal airports a week.

Regarding GDalwarp, I was about to start with that one, then found TritonRMP Helper. Nice little utility that reproject to WGS84 for you:

http://freegeographytools.com/2009/tritonrmp-helper-upgraded-to-version-2-0

GaryGB,

Opps I said it again...meant to say resample.exe, but the grey matter doesn't always synchronize...

"How do you remember all this stuff? I know! You're using the voice software for a daily diary entry, aren't you?"

I write a diary at work, every day. Electrical engineering stuff, thousand things to remember, would get lost without it ...

And now I will put some more notes into my Scenery Design notepad file :)

Cheers,
:stirthepo
 
How do you remember all this stuff? I know! You're using the voice software for a daily diary entry, aren't you?

Hi Lance:

I do indeed use Dragon NaturallySpeaking in either of several application package formats with several large specialty vocabularies during the course of my week for professional and administrative work.

But I must confess that rather than keeping notes, I tend to store and index nearly all info in my biological memory; between that and the occasional added help of Google multi-word queries, I am usually able to access info I am looking for on a fairly expedient basis. ;)



I am on and off so many different computers during my week that I usually don't have access to, and/or time to load ...Dragon NaturallySpeaking, so I am often typing forum posts with my infamous "hunt-and-peck, 2 or 3 finger" method. :o


I also bookmark, then save web pages to my hard drive(s) in FireFox with ex: FS8, FS9, FSX, SBuilder, SCASM, Sketchup etc. as a hyphenated prefix / keyword for long descriptive file names: :idea:

FireFox Menu > File Save Page as > File name: [descriptive file name].htm > Save as type: [Web page, complete (*.htm, *.html)]


This process often allows info on various topics to be more easily found via:

FireFox Menu > Bookmarks > Show All Bookmarks > Library > Search Bookmarks: [query keyword(s) in file name]


Share the CliffsNotes! :mad:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CliffsNotes

Hmmm... that inspires a bit of cartooning ! :D



GaryGB
 
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A little OT, but here what good 20m data can do. The airport is 20.000 x 10.000 pixels, and for the first time I have thrown away the MS apron :D

tc2apron_zpse8cd7e83.jpg


Cheers,
:stirthepo
 
...it is good to know I can use whatever resolution that suits me, or max of what Photoshop will swallow.

I do notice when using geotiffs like 25000 x 5000 pixels, it may sometimes get blurred. Maybe the remedy is to make a more square geotiff, meaning, filling in more data top/bottom? Say, more like 25000 x 10000. Then I guess the result will be less blurred, and less zigzag taxilines to see (from a distance).

IIUC, you may be forcing FSX SDK Resample to actually resample the imagery via what some have decribed as a interpolation method which is essentially inferior to the methods used by 3rd party graphics apps.

AFAIK, the idea with FS SDK Resample is to avoid (or at least minimize) having it do any interpolation-type resampling, by having one's imagery source data submitted as close to the various FS quad matrix grid LOD tile ground coverage area sizes using ex: the above referenced LEC and Photocalc utilities.


IIUIC, it may optimize the FS SDK resampling output quality and efficiency of custom photoreal land class imagery BGLs to use multiples of LOD-13 quad sized source data required to precisely generate the span of LOD quad areas and resolutions one wishes to use ex: the terrain texture tile coverage which correlates with a *.INF file directive of "LOD=4,12". :idea:


FYI: IIUC, any graphics app doing ex: interpolation-type resampling / resizing of images needs at least 4 times the intended vertical and horizontal pixel dimensions in a source image to render a "quality" output image, as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=210002&postcount=45

In a graphics utility (ex: PhotoShop, PaintShop, PhotoPaint, GIMP etc.), when resampling images one may wish to use Anti-Aliasing / Maintain Aspect Ratio, and specify as a minimum, "Bicubic" Interpolation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicubic_interpolation)


But, preferably "Lanczos" resampling might be used if available:

http://gis.stackexchange.com/questi...os-resampling-useful-for-in-a-spatial-context


Thanks to this forum, I learned how to reproject my base material in the gem called GlobalMapper, and then get the Geographic/WGS84 metadata, which I use to calculate xDim and yDim for (ouch) ... resample.exe. It has become second nature now, and I spit out couple of photoreal airports a week.

Regarding GDalwarp, I was about to start with that one, then found TritonRMP Helper. Nice little utility that reproject to WGS84 for you:

http://freegeographytools.com/2009/tritonrmp-helper-upgraded-to-version-2-0

FYI
: In Global Mapper, one can pre-configure the workspace to automatically display any opened GIS content (ex: aerial imagery) in the format that FSX SDK Resample requires before gridding / exporting GIS content as ex: aerial imagery GeoTIFFs:

Global Mapper Menu > Tools > Configure > Projection Tab, then set as follows:

1.) Projection: Geographic (Lat/Lon)

2.) Datum: WGS84

3.) Planar Units: Arc Degrees

4.) Parameters: Attribute = [Central Longitude] > Value = [0]


Hope this info may further help with the development process ! :)


PS:

A little OT, but here what good 20m data can do. The airport is 20.000 x 10.000 pixels, and for the first time I have thrown away the MS apron :D

Cheers,
:stirthepo

Looking good ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
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Gary,

Let me clarify;

When I said filling in more data, I just mean downloading more jpg/jgw 20cm screen captures, before opening all the data in Globalmapper, reprojecting to Geographic and exporting my geotiff ;)

Just to get a more square picture with more pixels in the Y dimension.

Thx for the tips about resizing in Photoshop. Been wondering about that too.

Cheers,
:stirthepo
 
Info for those that have been following this thread, regarding overlapping:

I just render airport boundarys. But in Norway, often there are a zillion small islands nearby, or rock types the MS landclass can never, never reproduce. So my strategy is to render the airport at high resolution, which is 20cm/pixel, or 20m data if you like, and surrounding areas in separate bgl's, with way lower resolution.

I downloaded and rendered 100m data for the islands and surroundings. Made a blendmask just painting the islands and sorrunding beaches with white.

This 100m data now overlaps the airport 20m data with approx. 50 meters.

The result in FSX is just smashing :D

Cheers,
:stirthepo
 
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