FSX Rusted, can't get it right (solved)

[lordofwings]

I have not done any scenery design in a bit over a year now (FSX) and I am trying to get a new scenery experiment going... But even though I deploy it I see FSX recognizes it but I don't see the scenery terrain as I designed it. It is still in early phases but basically it is four (4) islands in the sea.

• The islands are spread across two (2) QMID 11 squares
• across both QMID 11 polys I created two random polys, one is a "Exclude All Terrain Items" and the other "Exclude All Water Polygons"
• I created both polygons and did "Fill to QMID 11" which covers the area I am designing. No mainland shorelines are covered here. I marked these two polygons "Hydro Default Perennial"
• For each of the two islands that are contained in a single QMID 11 I drew the outline poly and marked it as a HOLE.
• For one of the above islands I drew the same outline as the hole and marked it "Tropical Rain Forest" as well as created a Line around it marked "Shorelines Generic Ocean"
• For each of the two islands that are split across the two QMID 11 (as luck has it), I drew their outlines and then did "Splice to QMID 11" so that each got two polys, one for each QMID. To each half I marked it as a HOLE. One of these is the main island further detailed below.

For the main island where the airstrip goes I did the following:

• Created some streams
• Created some Dirt 1 Lane Undivided Median (supposed to be a trail, not a road). Don't know how to make a hike trail.
• For the airstrip portion I created two mostly rectangular polygons. One marked "AB Flatten MaskClassMap Exclude Autogen" and the other (superimposed mostly) "LC Airfield 1"
• The AB Flatten was given the airport elevation in METERS. This airfield is NOT in default FSX. However, since the mesh has a lower altitude than real life I had to move the altitude of the flatten somewhat lower.

Now the problem is, I deployed the files in my FSX scenery folder, one for the airport and the other is the OBX file generated by SBUilderX 3.x. FSX rescans the scenery because it has been updated. But when I try it out I see observe the following anomalies:

1. Instead of my four (4) designed islands I only see the two default islands that are in stock FSX.
2. There are a bunch of trees obstructing most of the runway as if the flatten had not done anything.

 

[lordofwings]

The SBuilderX project file is here:

https://www.mediafire.com/?b2xaeqbe335kw02

In the meantime I am working on it so I will have to know what was changed

I see that while the default island is shown instead of MY islands, I noticed that the scenery objects I placed (an air balloon and several little island buildings) do appear in the air and in the water (where land should have been).

Now that I recall, I believe the OBX is for objects but I don't see the CVX being generated. When I Select All and do File | Compile I only see checkboxes for Terrain Vector and Objects but only OBX is generated and no further errors are given.

 

[lordofwings]

Oh oh... I will get back on this, I noticed the files where being outputted elsewhere and those seem to work better. Will confirm after the weekend.

 

[GaryGB]

• For each of the two islands that are split across the two QMID 11 (as luck has it), I drew their outlines and then did "Splice (Slice) to QMID 11" so that each got two polys, one for each QMID. To each half I marked it as a HOLE. One of these is the main island further detailed below.

Hi Emilio:

Just a quick correction above on a 'typo' to assist readers with following your work-flow.


To follow up on somewhat related issues we have previously discussed on this project area, the USGS has now made available to the public, a improved 1-Arc Second (30 Meter) version of SRTM elevation data (not an original 3-Arc Second / 90 Meter resolution data set).

That data set is available via: http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/


You may recall we had previously explored the possibility of utilizing the ASTER GDEM data set, which IMHO, despite having been cleaned up somewhat, still needs more work before it is reasonably worthy of use in most areas of the world, so the above SRTM data set is better to use now.

Possibly that info might be helpful in your future work with the terrain in your Panama area scenery project(s).



Also, regarding the ongoing issues of getting ones island terrain to protrude through a super-imposed water layer, when "Holes" are NOT working properly via the SBuilderX context menu system, one may test reversing the "winding direction" for the order of CVX vector line / polygon vertex points (clockwise / counter-clockwise) so alternating layers have differing "winding directions" for CVX vector vertex points.


Additionally, be aware that some CVX vector files utilized in 3rd party add-on scenery from several South American freeware developers, and OrbX FTX Global may have been compiled by SHP2VEC without the -ADDTOCELLS command line switch, and may alter normal behavior and rendering of terrain in default and custom add-on scenery.


CAVEAT: ONLY use this SHP2VEC compile procedure when absolutely necessary with ones own custom scenery files, and only do so very carefully ...with extensive inspection and tesing in nearby areas to avoid bringing CHAOS to the FS world !

IMHO, this compile procedure should NOT be used until all other "SDK-compliant" methods have been properly learned / implemented !


How to perform a "non-SDK-compliant" BGL compilation with SHP2VEC via SBuilderX


1. ) SBuilderX Menu > Edit > Preferences... > ('SbuilderX Preferences' dialog opens)

a.) SBuilderX Preferences dialog > {Background Tab} > click [INI File] button

b.) [INI File] button > SBuilder.ini opened in NotePad > [Shapes] sub-section

c.) SBuilder.ini opened in NotePad > [Shapes] sub-section > set "AddToCells=False"

d.) SBuilder.ini opened in NotePad > File > Save as... ('Save as' dialog opens)

e.) Save as... dialog > File name: SBuilder.ini

f.) Save as... dialog > Save as type: All files (*.*)

g.) Click [Save] button; at 'Confirm Save As' prompt to replace original, click YES to over-write original file

2.) Compile ONLY specifically necessary CVX vector files for use with ex: OrbX FTX Global or Vector area using "AddToCells=False"

3.) Re-set "AddToCells=True" for use with file for areas other than OrbX FTX Regions (unless FTX Global and/or Vector also has a similar issue with altered CVX vector BGL rendering at run time in FS).


PS: At airports, the Airport Reference Point (aka "ARP"), Airport Polygon X (aka "APX") or Airport Background (aka "AB"), RWYs, and flatten beneath the airport objects must all be assigned the same Altitude.


FYI: When needed, ADE will create an additional 'terrain altitude correction BGL' for airports ...which will be output to:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\World\Scenery


That additional 'terrain altitude correction BGL' must also be distributed along with one's airport scenery for proper aircraft and scenery display.


Hope this info may help with your project !

GaryGB

 

[rhumbaflappy]

I see some problems with your workflow.

1st: Make a single exclude to cover the islands area completely and tag it as 'Exclude All Terrain Items'. This gets rid of all the water, shorelines, etc... Make it big enough to cover everything you are going to delete from the default scenery, and make that poly transparent enough to see what you need next. (This exclude also excludes the default Hydro polys).

2nd: Draw a big polygon to cover completely the 2 QMID11 areas... don't slice it. Make it bigger than the QMID11 areas you are working on. Slicing (and trimming) is about the last thing you would do. Make this big blob the Hydro poly.

3rd: Draw all your islands.

4th: Use the Make Line (right-click option) to make your shorelines from the island polys (you might need to 'close' the lines to encircle the islands). Tag these lines appropriately. Shorelines are done.

4th: Now make your island polys as holes in the large, single, Hydro poly.

5th: After your holes are made, then you can slice the hydro poly to QMID11, and trim off the excess that has gone over the QMID11 areas you are making. Now you have Exclude, Hydro polys and shorelines. Go ahead and add trails/roads and flattens+polys for runway.

Edited+++++

I see in the NW corner of your Hydro poly, there is a bit of another island in the default. So to blend your project in, you may want to cut out a bit of that Hydro poly to make sure that land shows. TMF viewer will show you the problem, or you will also see it in the sim when testing. Also, you may need to add landclass so your islands show in their entirety.

I'm attaching a Hydro poly blob covering your project's area, and a poly to account for the default land you'll need to keep in the NW corner.

Dick

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Another note:

CVXExtractor by Patrick Germain is now available. This tool can extract the vector polys and lines of the default CVX files. In your case, you could import this data to SBuilderX and see exactly how to blend in the default Hydro polys. (Just extract the default hydros to keep things simple). This extracted data can be sliced and trimmed as you need, even finer than QMID11 if you want.

Dick

 

[lordofwings]

Hi Emilio:

Just a quick correction above on a 'typo' to assist readers with following your work-flow.


To follow up on somewhat related issues we have previously discussed on this project area, the USGS has now made available to the public, a improved 1-Arc Second (30 Meter) version of SRTM elevation data (not an original 3-Arc Second / 90 Meter resolution data set).

That data set is available via: http://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/

Hope this info may help with your project !

GaryGB

Hi Gary,
Up until now this scenery is just a trial after a long absence, I don't know about its future, depends the quality of the result. Anyway, I was looking at the USGS terms of usage and basically it says (if I understand correctly) that it can never be used in anything commercial. So it has to be free, but then if it is free it also has to have a limited distribution that is NOT PUBLIC?! So it can never be offered in any site where any anonymous user can download it. Very restrictive terms. Or am I missing something?

For that reason I also decided against Photoreal Tiles though I must say good satellite coverage is VERY limited in my country.

 

[rhumbaflappy]

OK.

No where does the USGS restrict 1 arc second DEM products. They only ask for proper recognition:

https://lta.cr.usgs.gov/citation

There are no restrictions on the use of data received from the U.S. Geological Survey's Earth Resources Observation and Science (EROS) Center or NASA's Land Processes Distributed Active Archive Center (LP DAAC), unless expressly identified prior to or at the time of receipt.

Using earthexplorer, I can download 1 arc second data with no restrictions included with the file, or on that website prior to that download.

I also have downloaded via the GLOVIS website, Landsat 8 imagery, that also has no added restrictions on usage.

There are no 'hidden' restrictions for data usage. It's all pretty transparent, as far as the USGS is concerned. Just give them their proper recognition with your distribution... a README.txt file should suffice.

Dick

 

[pinkjr]

Dick, so the order of events as shown above does make a difference? I think I had tried making hydropoly first, then cutting holes and then adding shorelines and it didn't work as I had thought.

 

[JRobinson]

You can still make shorelines out of a poly after you've set it as a hole if that's what you mean. Either way works, just be sure you make shorelines before you slice up the main poly to QMID 11 or you'll have a lot of fiddling ahead of you.

 

[lordofwings]

For one thing elsewhere in this forum it was said that shorelines with waves had to be drawn clockwise. I found out it has to be counter clockwise otherwise they would be waves from inland of the island towards outside.

I had a minor problem with one island making some smaller rectangle full of land but I redraw the island and hole and it is okay now.

I always redraw the landclass poly inside the hole. because if you copy and place then it is difficult to select one or the other, I am afraid Luiz left some useful features out... I also draw the shorelines by hand as well rather than copying and then making as a Line (convert) because I noticed that if you use Make Line then it won't really be a line but a polygon with the outline of the line.

 

[lordofwings]

I have not yet tried with the DEM but the island itself (default) seems to be rather okay in terms of altitude (unless I have something laying there). My only complain is that at the end of the runway the cliffs (yeah! one cliff on each side as the real airstrip!) are rather geometrically incorrect but I guess I can live with that.

@GaryGB and @rhumbaflappy thanks a lot for getting me back on course. Once I am done with it I can send you the scenery if you feel like flying a challenging 400 meter runway sitting atop the highest part of the island with a cliff on both sides. I had to work with default scenery objects because I have never been to that island (my country), it is an exclusive eco resort beyond my means. It was created by the founder of eGroups.com that was later bought by Yahoo to become Yahoo Groups. I think he became a millionaire thanks to that sale (haven't had that luck myself).

Unfortunately back in 2009 or so, he hired a local private pilot to take him, his daughter (child) and a friend of his daughter on a plane ride to the highlands in the mainland. Unfortunately their "sightseeing" destination is near the highest mountains in Panama with lots of low lying clouds and they crashed into a mountain. All but his daughter died in the accident...

 

[JRobinson]

I also draw the shorelines by hand as well rather than copying and then making as a Line (convert) because I noticed that if you use Make Line then it won't really be a line but a polygon with the outline of the line.

What you need to do is "make line" from the poly, then hide polygons, right click the line and choose "Manual check", you'll get a little dialog telling you what to do with the arrow keys, you can hold down the delete button and get rid of the extraneous points left from the polygon one by one in rapid succession. (hint: hide everything else, especially maps, and the screen will redraw much quicker so you can delete them faster) Sometimes you have to "make line" twice or even three times and delete everything from one side on one copy, then delete everything from the other direction on the other.

Here's a QMID 11 cell where you don't want to be redrawing the line manually :

 

[pinkjr]

Do the Svuilder polys need to be QMID11 or should I use the smallest size that fully covers my area? I have an island that spands across two QMID11 cells, and I wont let me slice to QMID11 after removing the shoreline "hole"

 

[JRobinson]

The thing is shp2vec clips almost everything at QMID11 boundaries, what that means is if you exclude and replace in QMID 11 sized chunks there's no way your end user can have an addon combination that breaks your replacement (providing it has priority in the scenery library). You can possibly get away with adjusting just a small part of a QMID 11 cell using the default CVXs, you can open the cvx****.bgl in TMFViewer and see the poly structure, you can tailor your replacement to exclude and replace what you see in TMFViewer but then when the next guy comes along with FTXVector installed the poly structure might be different so your replacement won't work - your exclude isn't in the right spot or your custom hydro poly leaves a little strip of land where it's excluded a poly that was larger than anticipated. Since everything clips at QMID 11 boundaries you know there will be a break in the polys and shorelines there so if you replace everything within the QMID cell there's no way whatever's under it can interfere.

Freeway traffic lines clip at QMID 15 boundaries BTW so if you're ever doing traffic you don't need to do such large areas at a time.

BTW you have to be in polygon mode to slice to QMID 11, it should work if you select that outer poly even with the hole in it. I'd do the shorelines before you slice though because afterwards you'll have 2 polys to "make line" and you'll need to remove part of the line around the perimeter of the poly, if you "make line" from the island poly right now all you need to do is tag it "shoreline" and you're done.

I forgot earlier - if your waves come out on the wrong side of the shoreline just right click the line, choose "set width" (intuitive, no? ) and hit the reverse button.

 

[pinkjr]

I got it to work with QMID 9 level, but will try again today in QMID 11...because there will be end users working within the same area.

Thanks so much!

 

[lordofwings]

OK.

- ASTER Global DEM (GDEM) data are subject to redistribution and citation policies. Before ordering ASTER GDEM data, users must agree to redistribute data products only to individuals within their organizations or projects of intended use, or in response to disasters in support of the GEO Disaster Theme.

That is shown whenever you select an ASTER DEM data set...

Anyway my old account seems to have vanished (even though I downloaded a few days ago), they ask for too much information so off without it.

 

[lordofwings]

Okay guys, here is how it is looking so far (Islas Secas). The departure of this video is from an earlier test project that I had only for myself and needs a lot of improvement.

It is a short (400 meters) landing strip with cliffs on both sides (also in real life) so short field take offs and landings are a must! The default Maule 7-265 and Cessna 172 do the job (C172 is usually doing the job in real life). The De Havilland Twin Otter also does the job with reverse thrust. Have to make sure not to crash into the slope leading to the airfield.

Unfortunately the mesh slopes a quite violently on both ends of the runway and a bit less violently on the side which makes the use of a road vehicle not possible (I wanted it to drive to the resort)

 

[lordofwings]

I tried to follow that workflow on a nearby set of islands that covers 6 QMID 11 blocks and an Exclude All Terrain Items that covers ALL the islands and spans across the 6 blocks, but I noticed two issues:

1. Even though I removed the old BGL for that area and rebuilt the scenery database, I still see a set of scenery objects from the old scenery. I know they where made for that island but since I removed the other (old) BGLs, I have no idea where these phantom objects are coming. I know I don't use them anywhere else. Looked in other scenery folders and the common one but nothing that leads to that.

2. Following that workflow I see on the ocean water the contours of my streams and island coastlines as well as the roads and (new) objects I placed on the new version BUT the islands are covered with water and not with terrain. I even created a terrain poly inside of of them and same result. I made sure to "hole" them, those polys are "of type None" and when I used Set Hole and selected the huge Hydro poly (prior to slicing) the "Select Parent Poly" tooltip disappeared as when it has been "holed". Yet, it seems to have done nothing. This time I used the approach of creating the coastlines with the Make Line option and wonder if that is causing the problem?

Any ideas?