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P3D v4 GP and custom ground lines

Discussion in 'Airport Design Editor' started by Gerald Krutsch, 10 Sep 2017.

  1. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Hello guys,
    I decided to split this thread: http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/terrain-flattening-at-lpma-and-gp.440754/

    into two sepparate ones for more clarity.

    Here is my problem:

    I have opened a small FSX:SE default ARP within ADE (e.g. LRTR) and fixed some of the wrong or missing taxiways using a sattelite img created with SBuilderX. I then added some "custom ground lines" and some "custom ground polygons" etc. My work can be found here: https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxscen&DLID=199206.

    The entire ARP including all the ground lines and the polygons and also the AI show and work flawlessly in FSX:SE!

    Compiling the same project for P3D v4, the ARP is missing some features. All custom ground lines and custom ground polygons are missing. Furthermore, if I open any DEF ARP from P3D v4, add a custom ground line, compile etc. I don't get to see that line.

    Now since I did it right for FSX:SE (because I can see them), I have no idea what's wrong in P3D v4. I only use the stuff within ADE (no sketchup, GMAX, and other voodoo things o_O ).

    Could you pls advise me?

    Thank you from lake Constance,
    Gerald.
     
  2. =rk=

    =rk=

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    These objects require custom, as in non default, textures. Have you included that component in your P3D airport transfer?
     
  3. tgibson

    tgibson

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    Can P3Dv4 display ground polygons compiled for FSX? I.e. in FS2002 format. I don't know that. I do know that there is a new different format that P3D has available, but can it display the old GP's?
     
  4. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    The FSX version of ground polys will not work in PV4. The grounfd polys must be compiled for PV4.

    Don
     
  5. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Hello:

    Although I do not (yet) use P3Dv4, I do scan a number of FS-related forums each week to try and keep up to date on what is happening with existing and new versions of P3D.

    Although presently P3Dv1.4x / 2.x / 3.x continues to support display of SCASM / ASM legacy-format Ground Polygons, the intention of LM was previously made clear in the P3D support forums that their goal in the future was (eventually) to only support the new MDL-based objects which use Z-Bias Material Properties, available only via the latest versions of the P3D 2.x / 3.x / 4.x SDK, and not via the FSX or P3Dv1.4x SDK's. :alert:

    So, the new MDL-based Ground Polygons (aka "G-Polys" / "GP's) as types of 3D objects in P3Dv4 will require that:

    "You do... that 'voodoo'... that only a 3D modeling application enables you to do... so well". :pushpin:


    It also appears that VERY few here at FS Developer have yet to acquire and/or begin posting about ...P3Dv4. ;)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 12 Sep 2017
  6. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Yes!

    That's clear but if you read the entire post you will see that:
    1. I compiled the project (so the AD4 file) and
    2. I also tried a "custom line" in a default V4 ARP

    I did compile them with the latest V4 SDK. No joy!
     
  7. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Gary I did compile the project with the latest V4 SDK but I did not apply "Materials" if that's what you are trying to tell me...
     
  8. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    Since "All" custom GPs are missing and since, presumably, there were no compile errors and, presumably, you included custom GPs in your compile, I have to ask "Have you checked that the "..._GP.bgl" file is in the active scenery folder?

    Don
     
  9. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Hi Don,

    yes! In the Scenery Folder I have 3 files: the ARP.BGL, ARP_CVX.BGL and the ARP_GP.BGL (replace ARP with the project name e.g. "LRTR-Update"). In the Texture folder I have all used Textures (defaults from ADE e.g GP_LINEBASE.BMP).
    Uploaded the AD4 Project file. Custom GP lines are only on the apron, and other GP are on the parking lot and on the apron just in front of the ARP building. I had some custom textures (the same used in the FSX project which I replaced with standard ADE textures to see if they show. They did not. The project file now contains only default ADE textures so don't get mad if you see that fiery red...).

    Gerald
     

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  10. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    Gerald, the problem is that the GPs are being displayed UNDER the aprons as a result of the ARP being higher than the ground elevation, albeit by < 2cm, but enough to bury the GPs. Add a flatten at ARP elevation or increase the GP offsets.

    Don
     
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  11. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Hi again:

    I agree with Don, that Gerald's G-Polys (aka "GP's) were buried underground. :oops:


    I only had time to quickly look at the SCASM / ASM code (de-compiled via BGLAnalyze version 3.1 and ScDIS version 2.3) for the GP's when Gerald originally had sent me a PM about this, and I suggested that it would be a better learning opportunity for all, if this query was instead posted as a public discussion thread in the ADE forum.


    FYI: This is what I see for ICAO LRTR in the AVSIM add-on file set that Gerald had originally linked to in his PM:

    [lrtr-v1_and_lts install path]\LRTR-Update 1-0\Scenery\LRTR-Update 1-0_CVX.bgl

    CVX Flatten
    : 106.069999694824 Meters = 347.9976 Feet

    NOTE: LRTR-Update 1-0_CVX.bgl was de-compiled by Patrick Germain's CVXExtractor: (viewed as BLN file format)

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvxextractor-exporting-vector-data.432918/


    [lrtr-v1_and_lts install path]\LRTR-Update 1-0\Scenery\LRTR-Update 1-0_GP.bgl

    SCASM / ASM G-Polys
    : < IIUC, coded as "Area( C" objects >

    http://www.scasm.de/doc/sca_cmd1.htm#area


    The GP's are also coded with "Relative" type RefPoints, wherein Elevation is "always 0 AGL"

    AFAIK, this altitude may follow either a flatten or a *_ALT airport "stub" terrain altitude adjustment value, if one exists.


    But, perhaps if they had instead been coded as Type-2 RefPoints, an "absolute" Elevation value in Meters may have otherwise been assigned via the "E=" parameter ? :scratchch

    [EDITED]

    However, one might wonder whether this is an equally acceptable alternative to the way that MCX codes G-Polys as Type-7 RefPoints, wherein "the altitude is adjusted to the same level as defined in the Synth Tile block you are standing on. The 'E=' parameter is ignored" ? :idea:

    http://www.scasm.de/doc/sca_cmd1.htm#refp



    Furthermore, I see that the GP's used VTP layers 24, 25, and 26, as well as VTP layer 63.


    IIRC, SCASM / ASM GP objects that are not in a "grouped" 100 Meter-sized object with a single central RefPoint ...should be separated by intervals of 4 VTP layer numbers (ex: assigned VTP layer numbers 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 etc.).



    But, AFAIK, for P3D compatibility, one should only use VTP layers from 16 to 32 so the textured SCASM / ASM Ground Polyon surface 'receives' and displays shadows cast from super-imposed SimObjects.

    [END_EDIT]


    [lrtr-v1_and_lts install path]\LRTR-Update 1-0\Scenery\LRTR-Update 1-0.bgl

    Airport Reference Point (aka "ARP") = 106.070 Meters = 347.9976 Feet


    * Generally speaking, ARP, AB Flatten, and RWY / Taxiway / Apron altitudes must all be identical values AMSL.

    * Generally speaking, G-Polys must either be at the same altitude, or less than 5 cm higher than ARP altitude. :pushpin:


    Hope this helps in troubleshooting this scenario when a MDL-based GP is made for P3Dv4 using a negative Z-Bias. :)

    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 12 Sep 2017
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  12. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Oh darn...could it be that simple????:banghead:
    I will try the "fix" as I get home. IIRC I used for all elements (also GP) the same ELV as the ARP (can't remember entering anything else and also tried to apply an offset to GP in the compile window...). And all of this worked well in the FSX:SE version of the ARP o_O.

    Will report how it went...
    BR,
    Gerald
     
  13. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    You didn't specify an elevation for the GPs. in P3Dv3+, GPs are draw on the surface of the terrain. In FSX, you have a choice: local elevation of ARP. Presumably you chose ARP. It's always safer to add a flatten at ARP elevation.

    Don
     
  14. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Don,

    thank you. I was not aware of that since this is the first time I even own a P3D version.
    I'm still not home...can you tell me where exactly I can specify the GP elevations (I have looked at the first vertex of custom ground line but the ELEV option was greyed out). I also think I might be better of adding a flatten then messing with different ELEV :scratchch.

    Also, I can't realy remember if I ever had to look for the ground elevation in the CVX file. How can I see the ground ELEV?

    Best regards.
     
  15. GaryGB

    GaryGB

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    Not Don here, but AFAIK, you should be able to view and edit all attributes for CVX vector scenery objects, GP's etc. by opening a saved ADE airport *.AD4 project file in ADE via:

    ADE Menu > File > Open Airport > browse / select desired *.AD4 file, click [Open] button.


    You may also de-compile ADE CVX vector BGL data into files output by Patrick Germain's CVXExtractor:

    http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/cvxextractor-exporting-vector-data.432918/


    FYI: ESRI SHP file output is best "Appended" to SBuilderX; BLN file output is best for viewing CVX Lon,Lat,Alt (X,Y,Z) data


    GaryGB
     
    Last edited: 12 Sep 2017
  16. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    Gerald, your flatten should be at ARP elevation. The whole idea is to bring the ground up to that level around the airport.

    You don't specify GP ground elevation. In FSX you specify the elevation reference as either local elevation (where the GP is to be placed, or ARP elevation) In P3D, the reference elevation is always the local elevation (which is why local elevation must always be ARP elevation or higher when the GP is to be on a apron/taxiway/etc.

    Don
     
  17. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Guys, still no joy.

    I already had a shape poly which was set as ARP Background but with the option "Mask Class Map Exclude Autogen". I changed it to "Flatten Exclude AutoGen" and it is set at 106,07m which is the ARP ELV. Nothing shown in P3D after first compile. In the 2nd compile I choose a GP offset of 20mm still nothing. With the 3rd compile I made the offset 30mm and.... nothing.

    My custom scenery folder looks like this:
    LRTR-Update 2-0 (main folder) and underneath I have 2 folders Scenery and textures. In the project compile directory, ADE creates the folder ADE_GP Textures (this is new compared to FSX). I first copied it's content in the texture folder, afterwards did try to put the files and even the entire folder everywhere underneath the main folder. Nothing worked.

    I also mentioned (in the other thread I think), that I call the custom scenery with the Add-On xml thats looks like this:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
    <SimBase.Document Type="AddOnXml" version="4,0" id="add-on">
    <AddOn.Name>LRTR Scenery</AddOn.Name>
    <AddOn.Description>LRTR Scenery</AddOn.Description>
    <AddOn.Component>
    <Category>Scenery</Category>
    <Path>E:\Custom Scenery\LRTR-Update 2-0</Path>
    <Name>LRTR Scenery</Name>
    </AddOn.Component>
    </SimBase.Document>

    It obviously works since P3D always updates the scenery database anytime I overwrite the BGL with a new compiled file. I think I'm going mad :banghead:
     
  18. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    Gerald, as before, I need the relevant (current) files to diagnose. That being said, if adding a flatten or increasing the GP offset didn't resolve the issue, then I suspect the files are not in the right place. Many others are using GPs with PV4 without difficulty.

    For test purposes, instead of messing about with addon.xmls and adding an extra layer of complexity, why not just create a folder in Addon Scenery and enable (as you would have in FSX). Note, however, you must be running PV4 "as Administrator" in order to change the Scenery Library.

    Don
     
  19. Gerald Krutsch

    Gerald Krutsch

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    Hi,

    just tried it:
    - removed the XML entry
    - started p3d which rebuilded the scenery
    - went on another arp
    - looked in the scenery for LRTR not to show (it wasn't there anymore)
    - copied the scenery in P3D scenery folder
    - enabled the scenery browsing to it's location (it's above all other entries)
    - p3d rebuilded scenery cache
    - changed to LRTR ARP (new scenery loaded, no GP)

    Run all sim related stuff as admin.

    Attached also the new AD4 file with the flatten...
     

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  20. gadgets

    gadgets Resource contributor

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    The problem is a texture issue. The apron texture appears to have priority over the GP textures - which is why it appears that the GPs disappear below the apron regardless of offset. You can see this if you set the GP offset to 1m and disable the ADE scenery .bgl. It happens with both .bmp and .dds textures.

    I have no idea what is causing this and have never seen it before.

    Jon, I did not have this problem with an earlier version of ADE i.e., prior to 1.75 RC.

    Don
     

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