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sloping scenery

Messages
179
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unitedkingdom
I have a niggling problem I hope someone can help me with, I didn't really know where to ask this so I am asking here.
I design scenery for farm strips (www.northern-microlights-fsx.co.uk) and as the terrain is anything but flat I have to slope the walls and fences. To do this I use Instant Scenery. Now this is where the funny things happen. If I design an object say a wall or a fence in Gmax then when positioning I use a 3degree slope, when I exit FSX and return the object is still sloping. However if I design the object in Sketchup and apply the same slope it looks great while I am in FSX but after exiting and returning the slope has reverted back to 0! When I open the scenery again in IS it has reverted back to 3 degrees!Does anyone have any idea why it should do this.
 

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506
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unitedstates
IS renders the object external to FSX, so to speak. So it can move the object in ways that FSX does not allow. Unlike FS9, FSX does not render FSX-compiled MDL objects via pitch and bank.
 
Messages
179
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unitedkingdom
So why do objects created with Gmax remain sloping while objects created with Sketchup revert to 0? Thanks. Neil
 
Messages
5,214
Hi,

I have a multitude of GSU objects and I position them by (if necessary) rotating them with MCX. No problems experienced ever.
But banking or pitching an object is IMHO not the correct way to position it on a slope. What you should do is to adapt the model so that it fits the slope.
In the case of, say, a fence, you can rotate it first using MCX and then export it as an mdl. That should not give any problems?
 
Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Hello:

As Lance stated (and AFAIK), FSX no longer allows XML-placed scenery objects to be displayed with pitch or bank ...unlike what was allowed in FS9 or earlier.


Instant Scenery (aka "IS") displays objects via OpenGL independent of the FSX rendering engine when object placement is under the control of IS at the time of placement, or when one manually re-opens and restores a scenery placement BGL to the control and display mechanism which IS uses at run time.

One solution (IMHO, for smaller sized projects) is, as Roby stated, to make one's objects physically sloped with respect to the ground within the MDL prior to XML placement.

Making sure that each fence segment is sloped properly and of the needed length etc. is very cumbersome, especially when the terrain varies at each of multiple airfields; such a task might even be impractical to undertake for larger projects ...using custom objects created / modified manually via MCX.



FYI: Don Grovestine (aka "gadgets") has developed a brilliant FS scenery utility to do this on a semi-automated basis. :idea:

That utility is called "FenceBuilder Pro", and there is a trial version which one might test to see if it may meet ones scenery project development needs.

FenceBuilder is a rather unique utility with a considerable degree of complexity, patience, and practice required for someone to use the "Fence Building Mode", and derive its remarkable and equally unique results.... (yep, initially challenging even for one of its Beta Testers !). ;)


FenceBuilder Pro makes a wealth of features accessible for FS scenery building that might otherwise be difficult or impossible to achieve, if Don Grovestine had not put so much creative and skilled programming into that very special utility. :wizard:



(Gratuitous links to product details and illustrations by an appreciative, non-compensated end user !)


http://silvercloud-store.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29780

http://secure.simmarket.com/fsaddon-fencebuilder-pro.phtml



PUBLISHER HOMEPAGE: http://www.fsaddon.com/

FORUM/FAQ: http://fsaddon.eu/wpfsaddon/?page_id=1055/

FILESIZE: 14MB

DEMO DOWNLOAD: http://online.simmarket.com/1/FenceBuilderPro-demo.exe

Manual: http://online.simmarket.com/fsaddon/FenceBuilderQuick-StartManual.pdf

REQUIREMENTS: FSX, FSX SP2/Accelleration, FS2004, Windows XP, Windows Vista or Windows 7


Hope this simplifies placing fences for the northern-microlights-fsx farm strips... it sounds like a fun project, so please keep us posted on your progress ! :)

GaryGB
 
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Messages
506
Country
unitedstates
So why do objects created with Gmax remain sloping while objects created with Sketchup revert to 0? Thanks. Neil

I dunno, as I don't have the MDL files. FS9 allowed pitch/bank and in one of those quirks of FSX (IIRC), that version of the game will allow pitch/bank on FS9 MDL files used within it. Getting FSX MDL files to pitch/bank was not one of the things that got finalized.

So the obvious question is how was the Gmax file compiled, via the FS9 SDK or FSX SDK? I'm guessing that the Sketchup file was compiled by MCX and the FSX SDKS???
 
Messages
1,510
Country
unitedstates
Drawcall batching breaks pitch and bank in placements. Pitch & bank still works fine for models that are not batched. Sketchup models pass through MCX which batches models by default if they contain no LODs or animations. Gmax doesn't batch models under any circumstances. IS2 breaks batching while it's running, allowing you to see the effects of pitch & bank temporarily, after you close & restart the sim the batching returns and your models stand up straight again. You can add an empty LOD to your sketchup models in MCX to prevent them from being batched therefore allowing pitch & bank in their placements. Of course you give up the benefits of drawcall batching when you do that.

Jim
 
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
Hi Jim:

Excellent info... many thanks for clarifying that one can still use pitch and bank with FSX MDLs (...subject to certain special considerations) ! :D


[EDITED]

As for the "fence objects" created by FenceBuilder Pro (aka "FBP") in fence-creation 'Segments' mode, they also are not subject to the same limitations on pitch and bank as other MDL-based 3D scenery objects, even though IIUC, they are also compiled and placed via XML.


AFAIK, those FBP custom fence objects are NOT "Extrusion" type objects, and are yet another option for FS Developers to use when 'off-the-level' placement is desired for an object. ;)


[END_EDIT]

Hope this helps ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
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Messages
1,510
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unitedstates
FBP custom fence objects are "Extrusion" type objects

What a concept, I did not know that. Thanks, I haven't upgraded from the FS9 version yet and oddly enough I just happen to be in need of a fence ATM. :)

Jim
 
Messages
7,450
Country
us-illinois
Hi Jim:

Hope FBP works OK for your project ! :)


BTW: FBP does several other sophisticated things rather well, too; IIRC, Bill Womack created numerous orchard rows using FBP's "jitter" option for MDL-based scenery library XML object placement ...which randomized multiple lines of tree objects by type, size, heading, etc. in his Starks Twin Oaks package. ;)


PS: I'm looking forward to seeing more 'teaser' pix of your McCall Idaho project sometime ! :cool:

GaryGB
 
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Messages
179
Country
unitedkingdom
Jim Robinson appears to have the answer, using mcx and creating an empty lod seems on first inspection to have solved the problem all objects remain sloping after re-entering fsx. Thanks Jim I think you will have pleased quite a few people.
 

hcornea

Resource contributor
Messages
2,388
Country
australia
I don't think FBP makes "Extrusion" objects (eg like extrusion bridges)

If you look at the file it generates, it will likely contain a large series of custom models (each with their own GUID, generated by FBP) and the xml code to place them. The models take into account the form of the land on which they are placed.

At least, it worked this way the last time I looked.

This is in fact VERY clever, as it enables the objects to be custom formed, and still take advantage of drawcall-batching, an absolute must with heaps of fence-segments.
Large numbers of objects with (even empty) animation blocks, will be somewhat of a performance drag.

Don Grovestine ('gadgets') would have the definitive answer about FBP, as he made the damn thing.
 
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Messages
7,450
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us-illinois
Hi Ian:

After looking back through some older threads about FBP, I am now reminded that you are correct about FenceBuilder Pro using standard FS modelling techniques; and instead, it is FSX which uses Extrusion methods for default fences ...both of which Don explained here: :duck:

http://forums.fsaddon.eu/viewtopic.php?p=27454&highlight=


My apologies for the lapse in properly remembering that detail from nearly 3 years ago; I have amended my post above: :eek:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=626522&postcount=8


Regardless of internal technique, FBP offers a convenient way to make and place fence segment objects which are immediately aligned adjacent to each other, and with the ground surface of the underlying terrain mesh after it compiles and automatically enters one's fence project into the FS Scenery Library.



BTW: Interestingly, FBPs fences also seem less problematic for purposes of rendering with less display anomalies than default extrusion fences ...as discussed in the linked thread above, and this thread as well: :idea:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?p=127384#post127384


Hope this helps ! :)



PS:

Don Grovestine ('gadgets') would have the definitive answer about FBP, as he made the damn thing.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=626769&postcount=12

Was there a problem you had with FBP that you wanted to make us aware of ? :confused:

GaryGB
 
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