MSFS20 Airport fixed elevation plz help!

[Aboud]

hello, I was trying to edit the altitude(elevation) of the airport ground but it doesn't want to change, even when I change priority in the polygon properties, also when I tried the same polygon to the ground next to the airport it worked but in the airport area it doesn't change at all. ((airport: HECA, Cairo airport))

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

According to the MSFS default ICAO: HECA airport XML source code posted by Dick in reply to your original inquiry ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mall-app-to-help-you-draft.450344/post-907703

...the Altitude for HECA is 104.698 Meters AMSL (at the center position on the RWY 05C-23C axis).


According to wikipedia, the real world declared Altitude for HECA is 116 Meters AMSL (near the Geographic center of the <new ?> airport):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_International_Airport


IIUC, you want to re-assign Altitude for your replacement HECA airport flatten area ...by raising it 11.302 Meters up to 116.0 Meters.

Is this correct ?

GaryGB

 

[Aboud]

ok I tried to do that but its not take any effect, the problem that there is something that prevents terraforming in the airport area, even when I tried to do the terraforming for the runway it didn't change at all, when I compared the other airports that I made I didn't saw anything differ in their xml s, so I don't know what is the thing that makes the airport at a fixed altitude and not responding to any terraforming.

 

[=rk=]

ok I tried to do that but its not take any effect, the problem that there is something that prevents terraforming in the airport area

I apologize for stepping in with a simplistic observation of something you probably already well understand, but this suggests that a copy of the airport, or at least the currently depressed airport elevation adjustment, already resides in your Community folder. Can you confirm whether this is, or is not the case?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Aboud:

Do you have a copy of FSX or P3D SDK installed on your FS development computer?

If not, please install (the free) P3Dv5 SDK ...so TMFViewer can be used to visualize MSFS' default HECA CVX polygon.

https://www.prepar3d.com/support/sdk/


Also, please install Patrick Germain's (free) CvxExtractor utility:

CVXExtractor - Exporting vector data.

Hi folks CVXExtractor is a command-line application that allows you to export the vector data of a CVX BGL file into one of the following formats: - XML (Plain XML) - KML or KMZ - ESRI Shapes - BLN - OSM (Open StreetMap XML) Also note that original lines or polygons may be split if they cross...

www.fsdeveloper.com

Additionally, please install (the free) Google Earth Desktop Edition:

Earth Versions – Google Earth

www.google.com

GaryGB

 

[Aboud]

I apologize for stepping in with a simplistic observation of something you probably already well understand, but this suggests that a copy of the airport, or at least the currently depressed airport elevation adjustment, already resides in your Community folder. Can you confirm whether this is, or is not the case?

if u mean community folder that addons is placed in it, so no there are nothing that related to cairo airport in my community folder.

 

[Aboud]

Hi Aboud:

Do you have a copy of FSX or P3D SDK installed on your FS development computer?

If not, please install P3Dv5 SDK on your computer (...so that you have TMFViewer available to visualize the HECA flatten polygon).

https://www.prepar3d.com/support/sdk/


Also, please install Patrick Germain's CvxExtractor utility:

CVXExtractor - Exporting vector data.

Hi folks CVXExtractor is a command-line application that allows you to export the vector data of a CVX BGL file into one of the following formats: - XML (Plain XML) - KML or KMZ - ESRI Shapes - BLN - OSM (Open StreetMap XML) Also note that original lines or polygons may be split if they cross...

www.fsdeveloper.com

Additionally, please install Google Earth Desktop Edition:

Earth Versions – Google Earth

www.google.com

GaryGB

Thank u gary for helping, ok i will install these things now, also take a look at this photo. (the area that is flat in the photo this is it that I cant do any terraforming)

 

[GaryGB]

Indeed, a "Isoline" view can show the airport "flatten" area surrounded by the base terrain, and also shows a sloped airport polygon.

The utilities I cited above can help visualize- and decide how to modify- the MSFS default airport boundary area Polygon(s).


I will be out traveling for a few hours this afternoon, but I shall check back on this thread again this evening.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Aboud:

I have posted some feedback to Dick as the preparer of the extracted XML for the HECA MSFS default airport here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mall-app-to-help-you-draft.450344/post-907798


AFAIK, a special procedure was required to prepare XML from a de-compiled MSFS HECA, due to Asobo's new "Localization" methods.


The FS Developer Community is still attempting to better understand Asobo's methods for airport flattens and Localization of airports.


Sorry, but this may take a little longer to sort out than anticipated.

I may have overlooked a ADE Alpha build 'bug' involving toggling 2-Way Editing that is making ADE's HECA MSFS Project malfunction.


Tomorrow, I shall try another method for deriving a HECA Project via Arno's ModelConverterX rather than via ADE (or Airport2Project).

Then I shall post some info on how to use the (3) applications I had you download / install for troubleshooting the HECA airport flatten.

GaryGB

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Aboud.
Why do you want to change the altitude? And what altitude do you want?

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Here's a HECA project attached as a zip file. I cleaned up the XML code for the airport a bit... the compiler isn't perfect. I deleted the airport flatten, so you shouldn't get the odd cliffs surrounding the airport. Hope this works for you.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Aboud.
Why do you want to change the altitude? And what altitude do you want?

Hi again:

According to the MSFS default ICAO: HECA airport XML source code posted by Dick in reply to your original inquiry ...here:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...mall-app-to-help-you-draft.450344/post-907703

...the Altitude for HECA is 104.698 Meters AMSL (at the center position on the RWY 05C-23C axis).


According to wikipedia, the real world declared Altitude for HECA is 116 Meters AMSL (near the Geographic center of the <new ?> airport):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_International_Airport


IIUC, you want to re-assign Altitude for your replacement HECA airport flatten area ...by raising it 11.302 Meters up to 116.0 Meters.

Is this correct ?

GaryGB

As we await Aboud's reply, I'll say "Thanks for the update on HECA, Dick".


[EDITED]

FYI: This has been an issue for others at HECA (is this a Premium Deluxe airport ?); not sure where some get their altitudes, but see this:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/cairo-intl-heca-airport-altitude-off-by-200ft-ish/489763/4

[END_EDIT]


Assuming we were to use 116 Meters AMSL as the IRL Altitude for this airport, here's the math on how out-of-touch MSFS' 3D world is :

116.000 IRL - 104.698 MSFS = 11.302 Meters short = 37.07994 Feet below IRL Altitude in the scenery code.

But... that is not what actually renders at run time in MSFS, as illustrated in the OP's original thread on this topic:

Welcome to MSFS run time HECA, now 'inconveniently' rendered at 207 Feet AMSL = 63.0936 Meters AMSL, thus:

116.000 IRL - 63.0936 MSFS = 52.9064 Meters short = 173.5769 Feet below IRL Altitude when the scenery is rendered.


So, 116.000 Meters is 380.5763 Feet IRL; AFAIK, MSFS rendering this location at 207 Feet is just not acceptable for a MS product.


I have not looked at the SRTM or ASTER DEM data for this area yet, but I'll bet it is no longer "off" like Madagascar was @ FSX-RTM.


Thus far, the code-assigned altitude for the scenery Polygon terraforming will not update the MSFS rendering engine.


OK, so not as bad as Madagascar in FSX:

FMMI elevation problems

Hello everybody Does anyone know how to flatten terrain around FMMI airport on native P3Dv4.4 Thank you

www.fsdeveloper.com

...but who would take a Flight Simulator seriously if it was off by that much ?


Even a (1) Foot mis-calculation during touchdown can cause a hard landing and resulting damage for any aircraft IRL.


IMHO, a bigger issue is how Asobo modeled terrain in the entire Nile delta region; the OP will have to do more than fix the airport.

I like the MSFS Giza and pyramids 3D models; but overall, this world region appears to be a number of large blended flat tiles, rather than 3D models fitted to the true curve of the Earth's local Geoid (hello... FS9 ?).

If Aboud wanted to make MSFS' scenery "As Real As It Gets" for his home area of Egypt, he would be in for a lot of additional work.


IMHO, this is a serious compromise of quality, and suggests MSFS scenery may have been rushed to market via "outsourcing".


I believe it is best to first "Localize" MSFS for a 3D world Geoid, rather than for content management, distribution bandwidth, or DRM.


PS: Oh, and did I mention we reportedly will not have the ability to edit Approach code as an ongoing feature of ADE for MSFS 2020 ?

GaryGB

 

[rhumbaflappy]

I have no idea what's going on with your MSFS Gary. When I load the HECA project I attached into the DevMode, there are no "invalid child" errors. Everything looks fine. I can save and build the project just fine. It appears to duplicate the default HECA. There are no plateaus or cliffs.

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks for that feedback, Dick.


MSFS Premium Deluxe here from MS-Store (thus, AFAIK, not a STEAM-ing heap of files with insidious security 'do-wop' / misc. mischief).


Looks like I need to consider a reinstall (after a backup of certain custom content files to be tested carefully to see if they cause anomalies).

And I'll try this again with an otherwise totally empty MSFS_Packages\Community sub-folder


PS: I just read someone fixed a terrain rendering anomaly by deleting the MSFS "Rolling Cache" rather than by doing a "Clean All" > "Build".

Is this likely to be redundant, or something most of the community has overlooked as a cause of rendering issues due to 'VFS persistence' ?


BTW: I do not use a Manual Cache here, but I do elsewhere in an ongoing scenery project area; should we consider rebuilding that too ?

GaryGB

 

[Aboud]

hello, I want to hugely thank u guys for helping and thanks dick for ur huge efforts that u made to solve this problem, I tested the latest file u sent and the problem is still active.

:notice in the photo, the area that I marked did not take any effect of the terraforming so I'm sure there is something that prevents the airport area of taking any effect in terraforming.

 

[Aboud]

Here's a HECA project attached as a zip file. I cleaned up the XML code for the airport a bit... the compiler isn't perfect. I deleted the airport flatten, so you shouldn't get the odd cliffs surrounding the airport. Hope this works for you

hey dick, have u tried terraforming is working or no?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Aboud:

I also still have the same dilemma with the latter "cleaned XML" version of the HECA project attached by Dick immediately above:

I can change the assigned Altitude in the parameter fields, but I do not see a change to a new Altitude in the scenery rendered at run time.


Pending further reply and/or testing of this scenario at HECA by Dick, I may test- and suggest- some other options tomorrow.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Dick:

Subsequent to some testing on my MSFS Premium Deluxe install, I have confirmed that HECA is indeed a "Premium" airport.

Apparently it is distributed by MS in a *.fsarchive file format rather than a *.BGL file format.


It seems the OP and me are thus far unable to force changes to HECA airport altitude via either ARP edits or terra-forming Polygon edits.

I am wondering if you may have found such "Premium" airports "lock" the scenery area to prevent changes to both files and rendering ?

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/premium-vs-default-airports-in-ade.454359/post-897109

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/premium-vs-default-airports-in-ade.454359/post-897146


I have not yet found a satisfactory work-around, as since release of SU10, Content.xml is now deprecated, so AFAIK, this is too:

https://support.orbxdirect.com/hc/e...w-to-disable-or-remove-Asobo-default-airports


If I physically make a ZIP backup of the MSFS default HECA airport and delete the original, MSFS downloads / re-installs it.


It seems likely one may place a custom version of HECA airport into the "Official" sub-folder chain to 'fool' MSFS into not replacing it.

But what is not clear at this point is what name or 'pixie dust' needs to be present in the HECA sub-folder chain to stop MSFS' updates.


Do you have any insight into this scenario, and is there a work-around that you have seen anywhere we could try to implement ?

GaryGB

 

[rhumbaflappy]

I do believe premium airports are locked. I think you can uninstall them in-sim (Content Manager?). I only have the standard MSFS.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Dick:

I could not find Premium airports listed in Content Manager; the granularity of search results / lists ...only shows MSFS Deluxe to toggle.


But I may have found the work-around:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MicrosoftFlightSim/comments/idm7dk

ZIP the layout.json and manifest.json files into backup, then delete the originals in:

[MSFS-2020_Packages install path]\Official\OneStore\asobo-airport-heca-cairo\ ...sub-folder


Now if I start a flight at HECA, the A/C is at the altitude assigned by a custom airport BGL (in a Project or in a \Community sub-folder).

This looks promising.


Hmmm... MSFS started up faster after doing the *.JSON mod cited above.

One might wonder whether it may prove useful to toggle a dummy scenery Package's JSONs via batch file ...just before MSFS starts ?


< ...and the JSONs go rolling along... >

Sung to the tune of "The Caissons Go Rolling Along" ?

GaryGB