Image Tool vs DXT BMP

[smithte]

Hi all,

I am converting my ground aerial images to dxt1 and have noticed a noticeable difference in quality between Image Tool and DXT Bmp. DXT BMP produces a much better result as can be seen below with DXT BMP been on the left..

However the problem is that I use a batch tool with image tool at the moment that converts all my files to dxt1 at the click of a button but I can't seem to find such a tool for DXT BMP. Does anyone know of any such batch file?

Thanks

Terry

 

[JRobinson]

Hi Terry, are you using the FSX version of imagetool or the older one from the FS9 gamepack? I've always been a die-hard DXTBmp proponent, but recently I did some side by side comparisons with DXT3 between the three (FS9 Itool, FSX Itool, and DXTBmp) and in my mind the FSX version of Imagetool was the hands down winner which is not what I was expecting.

Prior to this observation I used a tool called tga2bmp.exe which is also available from Martin's site and uses the same mwgraphics .dlls package to process the imagery. It can batch process, the downside was you had to start with a .tga. At that time I was resizing the textures as well as converting them so in that case I used nconvert.exe to batch them all to 50%. Outputting them as .tga was as easy as anything else using nconvert. After resizing out to .tga I used tga2bmp to put them back to DXT3 which produced the same end-result as DXTBmp.

I don't use DXTBmp much anymore. I'm using Ian's (hcornea's) 'magic shortcuts' now. Just make a shortcut in your project .psd folder to the FSX Imagetool, then do "Properties" on the shortcut and add the switches you want to the "target" field. When finished just gather up a handful of .psds and drop them on the shortcut to output .bmps. Here's an example that outputs DXT3 with mips:

"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\ImageTool.exe" -brief -DXT3 -nobeep -e bmp

This one makes 32bit with mips:
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\ImageTool.exe" -brief -32 -nobeep -e bmp

For FSX, this one will do DXT5 DDS:
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\SDK\Environment Kit\Terrain SDK\ImageTool.exe" -nowarning -brief -dds -dxt5

Jim

 

[mmann]

I am glad that you brought this subject up Terry! I was recently disappointed in the texture loss involving an aircraft decal that I noticed when going from a bmp to a DXT3 using FSX Image Tool. I tried the same bmp to DXT3 conversion just now with DXTBmp and I saw a definite improvement in the decal detail!

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[GHD]

However the problem is that I use a batch tool with image tool at the moment that converts all my files to dxt1 at the click of a button but I can't seem to find such a tool for DXT BMP. Does anyone know of any such batch file?

Have you tried Martin Wright's Convim?

 

[smithte]

Thanks for the replies lads, I think it is an important issue that is often overlooked by developers and can really bring down the night lighting. I have found this convimx (as pointed out above) and find it to be the best solution, Quality is as good as DXTBMP (in my opinion) and it allows you to batch modify the files so they do not have to be done one by one.

One problem I found though it that it gets rid of your alpha channel and so I had to manually convert the outside tiles of my satellite imagery in DXTBMP

 

[smithte]

Hi Terry, are you using the FSX version of imagetool or the older one from the FS9 gamepack?

Hi Jim,

I never knew there was a difference and I can tell you now that THERE IS. I just batch converted all my ground files with the fsx imagetool and the quality difference between it and the fs9 version is staggering. I think this is a very important thing for developers to know, I always assumed both versions where the same

Cheers

Terry

 

[mmann]

I think it is probably best to try a high detail bmp conversion with both FSX Image Tool (I don't have the FS9 version) and DXTBmp. In the one case where I was unsatisfied with the results Image Tool provided; using DXTBmp instead resulted in a noticeably better conversion. I should probably try using the NVIDIA Plug-in for Adobe Photoshop as well, but I always have such problems with that one.

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[n4gix]

Hands down I get the absolute best results going straight from my master PSD file to DDS/DXT1 or DXT5 via the nVidia plugin.

 

[mmann]

Well Bill, I persisted and managed to get a successful DDS/DXT1 conversion with the NVIDIA Plug-in and the results are the best, as you stated. I did notice (besides the fact that it is more complicated to use) that it was the slowest by far in converting; but given the better results I would say the extra time is well spent!

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[n4gix]

I did notice (besides the fact that it is more complicated to use) that it was the slowest by far in converting; but given the better results I would say the extra time is well spent!

Very, very occasionally I'll encounter a situation where the plugin whines about "too many channels to export."

The few times that has happened, I simply flattened the PSD, exported via nVidia, then "undid the flatten." Problem solved!

 

[smithte]

Excellent,

I must give this plugin a go and compare the results. Does the tool create mipmaps or just convert to DXT1 (or whatever)? Oh and also does it retain the aplha channel?

 

[wideloadwhitford]

Hi Jim,

I never knew there was a difference and I can tell you now that THERE IS. I just batch converted all my ground files with the fsx imagetool and the quality difference between it and the fs9 version is staggering. I think this is a very important thing for developers to know, I always assumed both versions where the same

Cheers

Terry

I agree with you. I have been using DXT3 wit mips and the quality of the night textures are noticeable with imagetool. I just switched to DXTBmp and it retains the quality more.

 

[n4gix]

Excellent,

I must give this plugin a go and compare the results. Does the tool create mipmaps or just convert to DXT1 (or whatever)? Oh and also does it retain the aplha channel?

Yes it will create mips and you can even specify how many mip levels you want. It will also convert to about eighteen different types of DDS formats. The only two of interest for FSX being DDS/DXT1 w/1bit Alpha, and DDS/DXT5 (8bit grayscale Alpha)

It can also convert to 32 bit files (8:8:8,8)...

 

[Flying Officer Jevans]

Of course, the NVidia plugin doesn't help those of us using GIMP only. There is a dds exporter available for GIMP which I've occasionally used, but I usually convert afterwards using either Imagetool or DXTBmp. I've never done any direct quality comparisons though, it's interesting to see the difference in quality. I never thought about that...

 

[mmann]

It would be interesting to know if FSX can read one conversion faster than another. Judging from the fact that they all generate a file of the same size, there is probably no speed advantage to a DDS created in one program compared to another.

I mention this because I find when I end a flight and it takes too long to return to the FSX main screen or if I select an aircraft and it takes too long to return to the main screen; it is often caused by a CAB file that is over compressed. If I decompress and then compress the CAB file with the FSX SDK tool; although the CAB file is a little larger, ending a flight takes me back to the FSX main screen without the long delay.

Regards, Mike Mann

 

[n4gix]

The major differences between each of the programs is the compression algorithim used...

 

[arno]

Interesting thread. I usually use the FSX ImageTool to convert my PSD files to DDS, but it might be worth some experimentation. Also in ModelConverterX I am relying on ImageTool to do DDS conversions.