• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

VOR and ILS Problem

C

canuck21a

Messages
67
Country
canada
I am trying the program to see if I can add an ILS and a VOR to a simple airstrip in Africa: HSGF

Previously I was able to change the runway from dirt to concrete and it showed up so I was happy for the time.

I downloaded the most recent version and decided to add an ILS and a VOR.

I first tried the ILS and I have to admit that I am not sure where to place the graphical markers but decided to put it at the end of the approach runway for now. I left the frequency as default and then compiled the xml.

I reloaded FSX sitting on the runway and tuned to 108.0 on NAV1. Nothing happened. I would have expected to get something on the radio.

I decided to go further and add a VOR. I found how to see the nav items and clicked on the VOR icon. I then clicked on the screen near the runway and saw a yellowish spot and a VOR form on the left. I added some info and changed the freq to other than 108. I used the Save As option. I closed the pgm and opened again. The yellow spot was not there and the VOR details was gone.
I opened the xml file and there was no indication of a VOR being added.

Composite Image of interface with VOR added..I think.

fsxpla.jpg




I have included the xml as it appears at present.

1. Should I expect to get a live ILS when tuning from the runway?
2. What did I do to not have the VOR show up?
3. Also wondering about the fact that the runway identifiers as seen from
FSX are 18 and 360 instead of 5 and 23.
4. The NDB option did not seem to work. Is it supposed to?


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" standalone="no"?>
<FSData xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" version="9.0" xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
<Airport airportTestRadius="4000.0M" alt="579.73M" city="Gedaref" country="Sudan" ident="HSGF" lat="14.13646566666667" lon="35.31692416666667" name="Gedaref" trafficScalar="0.7">
<Runway alt="579.72998046875M" designator="NONE" heading="50.0" lat="14.13647981362912" length="999.74M" lon="35.31694292353959" number="00" patternAltitude="1000.0F" primaryLanding="TRUE" primaryMarkingBias="0.0M" primaryPattern="LEFT" primaryTakeoff="TRUE" secondaryLanding="TRUE" secondaryMarkingBias="0.0M" secondaryPattern="LEFT" secondaryTakeoff="TRUE" surface="CONCRETE" width="45.11M">
<Markings alternateFixedDistance="FALSE" alternatePrecision="FALSE" alternateThreshold="FALSE" alternateTouchdown="FALSE" dashes="TRUE" edgePavement="TRUE" edges="TRUE" fixedDistance="TRUE" ident="TRUE" leadingZeroIdent="FALSE" noThresholdEndArrows="FALSE" precision="TRUE" primaryClosed="FALSE" primaryStol="FALSE" secondaryClosed="FALSE" secondaryStol="FALSE" singleEnd="FALSE" threshold="TRUE" touchdown="TRUE"/>
<Lights center="NONE" centerRed="FALSE" edge="NONE"/>
<Ils alt="579.73M" backCourse="FALSE" end="PRIMARY" frequency="108.0" heading="234.0" ident="ISGF" lat="14.13940910356266" lon="35.32051718265291" magvar="0.0">
<GlideSlope alt="579.73M" lat="14.13940970405844" lon="35.32052892678242" pitch="3.0" range="27.0N"/>
<Dme alt="579.73" lat="14.13941594876475" lon="35.32053835956442" range="27.0"/>
</Ils>
</Runway>
<Start alt="579.73M" designator="NONE" heading="50.0" lat="14.13393978709778" lon="35.31384645552718" number="5" type="RUNWAY"/>
<Start alt="579.73M" designator="NONE" heading="230.0" lat="14.13900523663973" lon="35.32005834957019" number="23" type="RUNWAY"/>
<Tower alt="16.46M" lat="14.13610287095623" lon="35.31726299725083"/>
</Airport>
</FSData>
 
Last edited:
Wow - a long post there! :)

So here are some answers:

1) I'm not sure why the ILS would not show up - I'll have to do some experimenting to see, and then get back to you.

2) We had forgotten to implement the code to save the VOR to the xml file, which is why it was not showing up again once you saved then reloaded the airport. This has been fixed for the next release.

3) This is also odd that the runway numbers are different. I suspect that this may be linked to #1 above.

4) The NDB feature has not yet been implemented. We are hoping to have it for the next release.

More to come after some experimenting...


-Russell
 
1. Should I expect to get a live ILS when tuning from the runway?
3. Also wondering about the fact that the runway identifiers as seen from
FSX are 18 and 360 instead of 5 and 23.
Click to expand...


Your ILS in the XML has no

Name
Range
Width

You runway number is 00 which is the Base End so that becomes 18 36

number="00"

that must say "05" or "5"

End result is you no longer have a runway 5/23 and a ILS that is not associated to anything.

If after you add a ILS it is owned by the Runway. Only the radio in the User plane will see a LOC/GP

The runway is still a VFR runway and ATC will not recognize it has a ILS runway until you write the proper Approach code.
 
jvile said:
Your ILS in the XML has no

Name
Range
Width
Click to expand...

According to the SDK documentation these are optional parameters. So I would think that would not affect whether or not the ILS worked for the runway. I haven't had time to check this in detail, so this is just first thoughts.
 
Russell

Yes those 3 are optional and are not needed for the compiler or a ILS to showup.

I think you are using Java language and reading the XML instead of the bgl.

I confused FSXP with ADE. ADE requires those 3 options to be listed before the bgl will open.

Sorry if I mislead someone.
 
Thanks so much for your replies. I will try the runway number change a stay tuned for the results of the ILS test.
 
Some ILS Success

Hi,
I wanted to share my experience so that others who, like me, may not not be well versed in the intricacies of how all things work might
save themselves some misery.

After some struggles I wondered if the airplane sitting on the runway may not be a good vantage for testing and ILS beacon. :o

One thing that I had noticed is that even though I had "Saved As" another filename the compiler kept creating the bgl without the suffix that I had used.
Maybe it is designed to use only the first 4 letters? Anyway I saved everything once again as the four letter version xml that I started with.

I also changed the runway number from 00 to 5.

I then removed the ILS that I had messed with earlier and put one in at Runway 5 and placed the end of the arrow line just inside the touchdown area. When I clicked on the Glideslope option a triangle appeared offset from the ILS arrow and I left it alone. Interestingly the runway number showed immediately as 5. I also enabled the DME option.

A messy screenshot of what was on the pgm screen....

fsxplf.jpg


Left of the localizer...

fsxplb.jpg


Right of the localizer...

fsxplc.jpg


Lined up but low...

fsxple.jpg


Where the ILS signal is dropped slewing froward at the same altitude...

fsxpld.jpg



The xml that worked...

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" standalone="no"?>
<FSData xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" version="9.0" xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
<Airport airportTestRadius="4000.0M" alt="579.73M" city="Gedaref" country="Sudan" ident="HSGF" lat="14.13646566666667" lon="35.31692416666667" name="Gedaref" trafficScalar="0.7">
<Runway alt="579.72998046875M" designator="NONE" heading="50.0" lat="14.13647981362912" length="999.74M" lon="35.31694292353959" number="05" patternAltitude="1000.0F" primaryLanding="TRUE" primaryMarkingBias="0.0M" primaryPattern="LEFT" primaryTakeoff="TRUE" secondaryLanding="TRUE" secondaryMarkingBias="0.0M" secondaryPattern="LEFT" secondaryTakeoff="TRUE" surface="CONCRETE" width="45.11M">
<Markings alternateFixedDistance="FALSE" alternatePrecision="FALSE" alternateThreshold="FALSE" alternateTouchdown="FALSE" dashes="TRUE" edgePavement="TRUE" edges="TRUE" fixedDistance="TRUE" ident="TRUE" leadingZeroIdent="FALSE" noThresholdEndArrows="FALSE" precision="TRUE" primaryClosed="FALSE" primaryStol="FALSE" secondaryClosed="FALSE" secondaryStol="FALSE" singleEnd="FALSE" threshold="TRUE" touchdown="TRUE"/>
<Lights center="NONE" centerRed="FALSE" edge="NONE"/>
<Ils alt="579.73M" backCourse="TRUE" end="PRIMARY" frequency="108.0" heading="50.0" ident="ISGFA" lat="14.13383026386444" lon="35.3137052761171" magvar="0.0">
<GlideSlope alt="579.73M" lat="14.13483026386444" lon="35.3147052761171" pitch="3.0" range="27.0N"/>
<Dme alt="579.73" lat="14.13383026386444" lon="35.3137052761171" range="27.0"/>
</Ils>
</Runway>
<Start alt="579.73M" designator="NONE" heading="50.0" lat="14.13393978709778" lon="35.31384645552718" number="5" type="RUNWAY"/>
<Start alt="579.73M" designator="NONE" heading="230.0" lat="14.13900523663973" lon="35.32005834957019" number="23" type="RUNWAY"/>
<Tower alt="16.46M" lat="14.13610287095623" lon="35.31726299725083"/>
</Airport>
</FSData>
 
That is interesting. Perhaps the ILS beam needs some distance in order to work properly, as certainly seems to be the case with what you have found. Or maybe it needs a slightly higher altitude than the airport to work directly from it's starting lat/lon point?

Great work though!
 
I have attached a typical ILS as seen in AFCAD.

In AFCAD there is a parameter under ILS/Localizer called Beam Width (deg).

Looking through the XML I cant see this parameter ???

I have attached a typical ILS as seen in AFCAD.
There are variations on this but i think this is typical of an ILS.

Need more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_Landing_System


Thales current ILS model 420 meets ICAO Cat I/II/III requirements.

LLZ is 2.5 to 6 degrees adjustable
GP is 2 to 4 degrees adjustable

.
 
Last edited:
Tasmanet said:
In AFCAD there is a parameter under ILS/Localizer called Beam Width (deg).

Looking through the XML I cant see this parameter ???

I have attached a typical ILS as seen in AFCAD.
There are variations on this but i think this is typical of an ILS.

Need more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_Landing_System


Thales current ILS model 420 meets ICAO Cat I/II/III requirements.

LLZ is 2.5 to 6 degrees adjustable
GP is 2 to 4 degrees adjustable

.
Click to expand...

There is a parameter called 'width' that does this. It can be modified in the ILS properties display. I think it is saved into the xml as well. I'll check to make sure though.
 
rf360m said:
There is a parameter called 'width' that does this. It can be modified in the ILS properties display. I think it is saved into the xml as well. I'll check to make sure though.
Click to expand...

I checked and the width attribute is being written to the xml, so you should be able to see it.

-Russell
 
canuck21a said:
<Ils alt="579.73M" backCourse="TRUE" end="PRIMARY" frequency="108.0" heading="50.0" ident="ISGFA" lat="14.13383026386444" lon="35.3137052761171" magvar="0.0">
<GlideSlope alt="579.73M" lat="14.13483026386444" lon="35.3147052761171" pitch="3.0" range="27.0N"/>
<Dme alt="579.73" lat="14.13383026386444" lon="35.3137052761171" range="27.0"/>
</Ils>
Click to expand...

Hi Russell

I meant this one
The (range="27.0N" width="5.0") are missing of the ILS

Also in the DME the N is missing off range

Might explain why there is trouble finding the ILS ???

Steve
 
Last edited:
N = Nautical and is understood if it is missing.

There is no Range= that you can adjust. Regardless of what you use, 27.0N is the only value FS9/FSX understands. This applies to the ILS Localizer activated CDI distance and the DME. GP is less then 27.0N

Width (optional) Localizer beam width in degrees.

If the tag is not listed then FS defaults to 5 degrees. There are many type tags that have a default value if they are not listed in the XML. I am a firm believer if MS listed the TAG then we should also list it even though it is not needed for the compiler.

If anyone ever gets serious about writing new ILS and Approach code then you have to interpret the approach chart and use the values correctly. A correct value (when it must be changed) is always what the approach chart will show for beam width.

Many ILS beams in FS9/FSX are not a default 5 degrees width and are also offset so if a Utility flushes out that data it changes the copy out code. That can cause GPS recevier data not to display correctly.
 
Last edited:
Tasmanet said:
Hi Russell

I meant this one
The (range="27.0N" width="5.0") are missing of the ILS

Also in the DME the N is missing off range

Might explain why there is trouble finding the ILS ???

Steve
Click to expand...


27.0N for range and 5.0 for width are the defaults so FSX Planner is not writting them out.

Also, according to the FSX SDK the range attribute is ignored for the DME, so I doubt that has anything to do with the ILS not being found.

-Russell
 
I could not agree with you more on this.

jvile said:
I am a firm believer if MS listed the TAG then we should also list it even though it is not needed for the compiler.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top