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Is the Dream Really Dead?

n4gix

n4gix

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Is the Dream Really Dead?

Well, is it? Why would MS be advertising for this position if it were?

My informed opinion is that MS has simply decided to "clean the slate" and rebuild a team centered on MS's long-term goals...

Note the bolded text below to put at rest any supposition that it will be an "XBox360" title... :lol:

http://members.microsoft.com/careers/searc...;SortOrder=Desc

Job Title: Art Management
Job Category: Game Design
Product: Games
Date Posted: 01/30/2009


"Join the team responsible for building the most fun and rewarding flying experiences available on Games for Windows Live. Does working on a small, innovative team that delivers the most immersive flight experiences available today on the PC intrigue you? Our technology makes available entire continents - potentially the entire planet - for a detailed and dynamic 3D experience. We are looking for a Project Art Lead who can define, refine, and extend the visual elements while balancing the need for fun and approachability for a broad set of users."
 
Note also it states Games for Windows Live. Wasn't the General Manager laid off at the same time as ACES?
 
It's all quite unclear at the moment. Why would they first get rid of the whole old team and then hire a new one? To me it sounds more logical to keep part of the old team if you want to continue in this field.

Starting completely from scratch could mean that backwards compatibility is completely lost, that would given even more noise from the community than the introduction of FSX gave.

But now I start speculating, let's wait for more news. At least something is going on.
 
arno said:
To me it sounds more logical to keep part of the old team if you want to continue in this field.

Starting completely from scratch could mean that backwards compatibility is completely lost, that would given even more noise from the community than the introduction of FSX gave.

But now I start speculating, let's wait for more news. At least something is going on.
Click to expand...

Yes, "something" is going on. That's good. It means that those weren't simply empty words from that lady quoted in various fora about MS's commitment to "a flying game."

OTOH, parse what the job description actually states more carefully, particularly the last sentence...

"...define, refine, and extend the visual elements while balancing the need for fun and approachability for a broad set of users."

...this should make it clear that they aren't totally "starting completely from scratch" with regards to the existing code. What they are starting from scratch is the team." Keep in mind that all former ACES members have first dibs at applying for jobs on the new team...

I believe wholeheartedly that the major reason for the shakeup is a direct result of MS's being on the receiving end of increasing user frustrations.

FSX (and to a large degree FS9) have become so complex and convoluted that it nearly demands that an end user have an advanced degree in computer tweaking...

...and they are still unsatisfied with the results.
 
Tim Gregson aka beatle was one of them I think.

I for one am not in "the sky is falling" category in this whole thing. Some of the big forums are full of kludge right now about XBox360 and how add-ons won't sell, etc.
 
I am not so sure how a 3rd party community is going to fit into Windows LIVE, at the moment content must be certified (and therefore controlled) by Microsoft and (I could be wrong here) that process is currently for complete titles, not add-ons. Certifying 30 or more freeware releases a day sounds like a challenge.

One of the heralded features of LIVE was that it was cross platform and PC players have had their in-game controller resolution and speed handicapped in order to bring them down to the level of the less able Xbox controllers.

Sorry to be a scare monger but I am struggling to be optimistic on this one. I dearly hope I am proven wrong and we can move forward without the baggage of legacy code problems.

And with ESP dangling in purgatory it is hard to recommend it as a commercial solution so many of us are being pressured into using alternative platforms right now this minute. Once the investment in learning a platform and developing for it have been made, will we want to return to a "flying game" on LIVE.

This is wreckless speculation on my part and I really do hope I am wrong.
 
It could be that MS feel much of the negativity from the user community was not due to their product at all (which I'm sure they think was perfect), but from the third party developers and users complaining how performance and behaviour suffered in conjunction with legacy add-ons. It could be that MS is looking to free themselves from those problems by stripping out expandability altogether.

When you consider that FS has become an unusually open platform for Microsoft and their love of all things closed, DRM,subscription, etc. it wouldn't surprise me if in whatever they do with it from here, they essentially lock out the mod community and seek instead to introduce certified add-ons that they can completely control.

Si
 
It won't be "your father's" flight sim (read: no longer the "thinking man's"). It'll be a "flying game" capitalizing on Flight Simulator's good name. And "Live" is a loose branding for various approaches to web/internet-oriented applications and "experiences."

The sky isn't falling, it fell on 01/22/2009.

But, hey, I hope I'm wrong. It is encouraging to see the ad and to see some of the old guard immediately re-incorporated into making the new "flying game." Maybe they'll include a for-pay "hardcore" mode for the adults?
 
Whatever the answer is, whether it's Live or gone for good, I'm pretty sure our days of just running down to Wal-Mart to pick up a new copy of FS are over. Personally, I'm betting on FS for XBox Live and no freeware at all with the big payware developers being the only people to supply add-ons. Do I sound like Eeyore yet?

Kevin
 
Simon853 said:
It could be that MS feel much of the negativity from the user community was not due to their product at all (which I'm sure they think was perfect), but from the third party developers and users complaining how performance and behaviour suffered in conjunction with legacy add-ons. It could be that MS is looking to free themselves from those problems by stripping out expandability altogether.

When you consider that FS has become an unusually open platform for Microsoft and their love of all things closed, DRM,subscription, etc. it wouldn't surprise me if in whatever they do with it from here, they essentially lock out the mod community and seek instead to introduce certified add-ons that they can completely control.

Si
Click to expand...
I entirely agree with you. MS has always preferred to be on their own.......By starting from scratch they can assure that...........
 
I think we may be overlooking something as simple as organizational culture. I recall that some muckymuck had assumed control/leadership of the games division and perhaps did not "understand" the ACES (planes and trains and ESP) bit. Furthermore, said muckymuck might have cut his or her teeth in the console area and can't get behind any "legacy" phenomena like that which ACES was responsible for.

It's all speculation and hard times and recessions are times for some to play their agenda earlier (meaning, as a PC title, MSFS' days were numbered, at least as an COTS offering). That they have vigorously insisted on retaining the IP rights tells me that they'll re-introduce the concept on their terms. If it goes to a closed platform, I'll start over with someone else (XPlane, FlightGear, whatever).

However, you might consider that they might do what they've done with XNA and do a "Creator's club" thing where MS controls the addon development environment and controls the addon sales and delivery vector. This might be good as some unsavory 3rd Party publishers and development shops will evaporate. I think the XNA model might be it as they actually charge freeware developers a flat yearly fee just to deploy their games.

I can accept this model if no realism and features are sacrificed. If it becomes an arcadish "flying game," then I am out.
 
I don't see why Microsoft doesnt make it available for Xbox360...

What also would be nice, because I know that Microsoft would never make a version for PS3, is if some other company comes and creates a PS3 Flight Sim...I would buy it...
 
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