FSXA A few Animation question

[MEPaquette]

Hi again
I have manage to set up my animation in Gmax for lowering and raising my life boat, minus the cables.
My problem is assigning an animation tag in the animation manager under FS Tools.
If I assign it to "lever-mixture" I can control the speed at which it goes down, and everything looks OK, except for the first 20 frames where my booms are moving but my life boat is suppose to be idol. Even though I went thru every frame from 1 to 20 and set up my boat in exactly the same position, in FSX it "jiggles", which is not visible in Gmax. But this I can live with'
I tried assigning it to "lever_landing_gear", but I found that it goes too fast.
I have also tried to "Re-Scale Time" in the time configuration and set it to 200 , but then my other animations that I have are all messed up.
My questions are:
1) Am I limited to the animation list shown"
2) Some of the items in the list do not correspond to a "command" in the FSX list of commands. How would I activate those animation when in FSX?
3) is there another say to change the speed of a particular animation without affecting all the other animations for my boat?

Michel

 

[Milton_Shupe]

Two animations that are time controlled in the aircraft.cfg that may work are 1) spoiler, and 2) wing fold. Maybe you could use a combination of the two, one for the hoist then one for lowering the boat. Animate the first from 0-50 and the second from 50-100. Both have speed of deployment controlled in teh aircraft.cfg.

 

[MEPaquette]

Milton
Thank you for your response.
First, I went looking for the options in the animator manager in Gmax, and all I found were "l_spoiler_key" and "r_spoiler_key", which I assume is for left and right spoiler. I did not find anything for "wing fold". There is only "l_wing_flex" and "r_wing_flex", but I am sure that is not for wing fold.

Next, I found the settings for the spoiler extension time, but I also found that the flaps also had extension time. But the flaps extension time does not apply to animation but only to the sound duration.

So, I used the "l_spoiler_key" and fixed up aircraft.cfg for 60 seconds extension time. It works beautifully, it took a whole minute to bring down my like boat. changed it to 30 seconds, much better.

Then there is still the problem of the dinghy "jiggling" from frames 0 to 20 when it's suppose to be standing still. So I experimented with using left poiller key for the whole boom assembly,minus the dinghy, from frames 0 to 20, then the right spoiler for the whole assembly from frames 20 to 100. It did not work. Animation was all messed up. I wander if it might have something to do with the dinghy being liked to the "hook pulley".

I have experimented in the past with "linking" the dinghy at frame 20 when the hook pulley got to the like boat, but that did not work, unless I was doing it wrong. So the question I should ask at this point is: can I add a link in mid animation, and how would I apply it in the "animation manager"

I would of like to attached a video clip of the animation, but it seems I cant upload and .avi file.

Michel E Paquette

 

[delivery guy]

What you really need is to create custom LVars or custom animation to your ModelDef file. Then you can have exactly the animation you need for each part. By using custom LVars you can create a 2D panel or 3D panel in the interior model that will be for all animations you create. Using default animation will work but then your limited to using the joystick rather than a mouse with nice decals showing you what is for what. But you would have some learning to do before you could do this.

Flaps make a good animation tag since you can control how many time you want animation and how long it takes. Try that one next!

If you want some custom LVars explain in detail what the animation needs to do! But i have a feeling the flaps will be the solution!

 

[lionheart]

Remember to zero out your flaps drag or it will slow the boat down, but then if you have a life boat in the water, it would slow you down.

I agree with DG. You need to now start learning to use custom LVar's. That is custom animations. They are easier then you think, but you need to learn how to write one, how it is put into the animation master file.

 

[Milton_Shupe]

Milton
Thank you for your response.
First, I went looking for the options in the animator manager in Gmax, and all I found were "l_spoiler_key" and "r_spoiler_key", which I assume is for left and right spoiler. I did not find anything for "wing fold". There is only "l_wing_flex" and "r_wing_flex", but I am sure that is not for wing fold.

Next, I found the settings for the spoiler extension time, but I also found that the flaps also had extension time. But the flaps extension time does not apply to animation but only to the sound duration.

So, I used the "l_spoiler_key" and fixed up aircraft.cfg for 60 seconds extension time. It works beautifully, it took a whole minute to bring down my like boat. changed it to 30 seconds, much better.

Then there is still the problem of the dinghy "jiggling" from frames 0 to 20 when it's suppose to be standing still. So I experimented with using left poiller key for the whole boom assembly,minus the dinghy, from frames 0 to 20, then the right spoiler for the whole assembly from frames 20 to 100. It did not work. Animation was all messed up. I wander if it might have something to do with the dinghy being liked to the "hook pulley".

I have experimented in the past with "linking" the dinghy at frame 20 when the hook pulley got to the like boat, but that did not work, unless I was doing it wrong. So the question I should ask at this point is: can I add a link in mid animation, and how would I apply it in the "animation manager"

I would of like to attached a video clip of the animation, but it seems I cant upload and .avi file.

Michel E Paquette

Michel,

Sorry I am not in FSX but I see no reason why this should not work. You just need to get the hierarchies right and use the animation keys you tried.
Use the spoilers to move the dinghy out over the water in frame 0-20 or 50. If the boat is a child, it should follow along.
Then from frame 50 to 100, lower the boat using flap keys.
You can control flap deployment/retraction times in the Flaps section of the aircraft.cfg.

Try zipping the avi file, then attach it.

 

[Milton_Shupe]

Michel,

I invested 45 mins to proof the concept in FS9. I built a boat, a hoist and pulley and rope and attached a box.

I established the hierarchy, named appropriately, then animated.
I set up the test in FS9 with water boat (from my Mallard), added teh spoilers and changed the flaps to agree with use of the flap key animations.

Attached are screen shots of how I set it up and what it looked like in action in FS9.
Hopefully you can find similar existing functions in FSX to keep it simple.

 

[Milton_Shupe]

Here is the gmax source if that will help.

 

[MEPaquette]

Milton
I tried converting to .MOV and zipping it, but it is still too large (7.34mb)
I will be reviewing what you sent me see if I can applie it
As for my video, I will have to try to shorten the video and see.
Do you know what is the maximum file size I should be going with?

Michel

 

[MEPaquette]

Hey everyone
I manage to get 3 short clip to show the progression on lowering the dinghy.
Milton, You did a pretty good job for 45 min. But you will notice that in my step 1, the dinghy should not be linked to the hoist.
This is where I am having problems.
As for using "flap_key" I tried setting extension time to 60 and the animation would jump from position 1 to 2 to 3 and then to 4. It was not a gradual extension. But I just tested the baron 58 and flaps don't jump. I wonder what is different?
I will be testing out using 1 command key to do step 1, then the next key to do steps 2 and 3.
Let you know tomorrow.
DG and Lionheart are talking about LVars further up. Is there a tutorial somewere for this?

Michel

 

[Milton_Shupe]

Michel, not sure why it would be jumping. In my example, the only reason I used 3 flaps was because I was using 3 lengths of rope telescopically to lower the box. If you are using animated rope, you should be able to use just one with 2 flaps entries in the cfg; one at 0 and the second at 100%. If you noticed my gmax setup, I use 20 frames for the hoist swing out and 80 for the lowering. You can set the time to deploy as you wish.

What animation controller are you using for this? Linear?

Also, why can't you keep the dinghy linked to the hoist, always connected and ready? That would solve the jiggling problem and you would not have to animate that separately.

 

[Milton_Shupe]

Michel, the work you have done so far is very impressive and realistic looking. Great job! Love the video.

 

[MEPaquette]

Milton
On the first issue, I still have not resolve the issue of the COM Error I get when I apply a "Skin Modifier to my rope. I posted my problem in another post in this forum and I have also started a post in the "Gmax-3ds max" forum specifically with this question to try to resolve that problems, since I got to believe the problem is with Gmax and not my model. No answers yet.
For my animation, I initially set up a frame at every 5, to have the motion I was looking for. Otherwise, "interpolated movement" were to much "straight lines" from 1 turning point to the other. Then from 0 to frame 20, where the boat should not be moving while the boom is moved into hook up position, I went to going to every frame and made sure the boat was at the same resting position. When I run the animation in Gmax, it's perfect. But in FSX the dinghy moves. Go figure?????
What exactly do you mean by 'linear" I am rotating the link from boom to mast, and rotating the boom up and down. So I =guess it's not linear.
Unless you are talking about which button I am pressing, then I am using the "l_spoiler" from the animation manager.

For the last question, I want to be as realistic as I can, which means the dinghy is not hooked up and the boom is tied down to the deck.

To top it all, I would also like to animate lowering the boom down to the deck to past under low bridges, but that will be another bridge to crass.
It started looking in the LVars, and I know I will need to read up a lot for this. From what I can see, this is done under the "MAXScript" and it using C++. Is the script basically a macro that is directing the model to activate a certain animation when a certain button is pressed?

Thank you for your last reply. It is encouraging. I have been putting many hours in this project. A whole lot more that what I should have.

Now I need to go baby sit my grandson. Later

Michel

 

[hairyspin]

Linear animations are required for FSX and are set in Gmax as the default animation controllers; FSX gives unpredictable, jerky animations otherwise. Then we forget about them. Here's a handy post on the subject.

 

[MEPaquette]

Thank you for the info Tom
I went thru all my animated parts and changed it, and my dinghy still jiggles. So I am going to my main file, make the changes to linear on both, and try reanimating again from the start and see what happens. I might even try to thro in a cable now that I have my error problem fixed.

Michel

 

[MEPaquette]

For everybody that has been following this post
I have here a summery of a bunch of test I did the other day trying to incorporate some of the ideas given in this post.
To start, here is my hierarchy for all the piece in my animation.

Note the following: The “Boom_Br_Link is a small link that joins the boom assembly to the mast. The mast end is connected with vertical pin to handle the swing and the boom end has a horizontal pin to handle the up and down rotation of the boom assembly. These are the main component of my test animation, other that the boat lift assembly which is under the boom that is to remain vertical at all times since it is just hanging under the boom.
The animation setup for all test are as follows
At time frame 25 – rotate boom up to 58 degrees
At time frame 50 – swing boom to 38 degrees (this id the position to pick up the dingy for final animation)
At time frame 75 – swing boom to 18degrees form center (this is to allow room to swing the dinghy out to clear the mast guy wire)
At time frame 100 – rotate boom down to 30 degree (this is getting ready to swing boom out and drop the boat
After this setup was done came assigning a FSX animation key. This is where I found out the difference between the animations results depending on the key used.
Video 04 is using “lever_flaps
Video 04X is using “l_flap_key”
Video 05X is using “l_spoiler_key”
You will notice that “lever_flaps” it jumps from one position to the next
With “l_flap_key” starting position is not where its suppose to be. I am not sure If I messed up somewere of if that is just the way it is.
Using ‘l_spoiler_key” gave me the results I was looking for. But there is one more thing to note. Once I go thru the initial setup at 25, 50, 75 and 100, I need to go back thru them to “fix” them up, since I am animating 2 diferent items.
When I go to 25, I just rotate the boom without swinging the link. At 50 I just swing the link without changing the boom. So when gmax animates it, from 0 to 25 it raising the boom but at the same time. fFrom 0 to 50, it swings the boom and so on for the balance. Therefore I get what is on video 06. it ends up that when the boom has swing to 38 degrees, its on its way down between the 25 to 75 time frame. That is on video 6

Next, I was wandering about having 2 different animations for the whole assembly. First animation for lowering and raising the dinghy, and second animation for dropping the mast to clear low bridges.

Using advice given, I animated the above steps from time frame 0 to 60, then at 61 reset boom to starting position and from 61 to 100 was dropping the boom.
Then in animation manager, applied “l_spoiler_key” from 0 to 60, then “lever_flaps” from 61 to 100
I am very happy with the results I get. See video 08.
Now that I finally have my cable animation sorted out (just got it sorted before this post), the only thing left is the jiggling of the dinghy for the first pat of the animation.

Michel

 

[MEPaquette]

I thought I had found the solution for my dinghy, but its not woulking quite right.
I sound the section in Gmax about "link constraint". Applied it o my animation and it works perfectly n Gmax. But in FSX, all the happens is from frame 16 when link constrain is applied, dinghy rotates in place.
Does anybody have any insight in this? Some post I have seen on "Link Constraint" say something about some stuff from Gmax is not supported in FSX. Is this one of them?

Michel

 

[hairyspin]

Constrained animations have to be collapsed to keyframes for FS, which doesn't support constrained animations at all. Collapsing constraints and also see this from Paul Domingue

 

[MEPaquette]

Tom
A few questions on the procedure to collapse constraint.
In my case where I want the dinghy to follow the hook pulley, would I use the pulley as the parent to the dinghy?
And because my motion is not a simple rotation, should I use the Link constraint instead od the Look At constraint?

Michel

 

[MEPaquette]

I have experimented with different way. If I use "look at constraint" and collapse it, all my dinghy does is turn on the spot. Using link constraint, when I collapse it, even thou scale option is not checked, my trajectory seems to get scaled up.
Since I am assuming that "collapsing" a constrain is merely taking the position and orientation numbers of the object that would normally be linked to another abject and applying those numbers to the object in question as a separate key frame animation for FSX, this is what I did with my dinghy.
In Gmax, I applied the link constraint, than I recorded the x, y, and z coordinates at key points, and applied to my dinghy as a separate unlinked animation. as for the orientation , I adjusted to ensure the dinghy cleared the guy wire on it's way out.
This works perfectly. there are just a couple of little "hiccups" not by the dinghy, but by the "hook" which is permanently linked to the boom.
I have made a short video clip (87 seconds long) lowering and raising the dinghy. The problem is that even converting the AVI file (7.28GB) to an .MOV file(10.7MB), then compressing to a Zip file (9.87 MB), the file ids too big to attaché to this forum. If anybody is interested, please send me a PM and we can work out a way to get it to you.

Michel