AI Traffic in Multiplayer

[bmatt59]

I have run into an interesting issue. It seems that AI aircraft can be generated by other players in a multiplayer session. Then, they are re-broadcasted to all other players in the sesion, which can become a real problem. My question, is there any tool out there that will remove them? I have tried google unsuccessfully. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Bud

 

[Geoff_D]

I have run into an interesting issue. It seems that AI aircraft can be generated by other players in a multiplayer session. Then, they are re-broadcasted to all other players in the sesion, which can become a real problem. My question, is there any tool out there that will remove them? I have tried google unsuccessfully. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Bud

FSX "Traffic Tools" is the only thing I have founnd that will do this.

It is my understanding, that a user running Simconnect, can only allows that user to remove AI traffic created by that user.

However, Traffic Tools uses some internal method to delete AI traffic, and can remove any generated AI.

It therefore does not seem to be programatiocally possible to remove the ASI traffic generated by other MP users.

( If someone knows a way, please share !! )

Geoff_D

 

[Pete Dowson]

FSX "Traffic Tools" is the only thing I have founnd that will do this.

And the Traffic Zapper in FSUIPC (but of course needing a registered copy), or a program using the facility to delete AI traffic via the offsets.

It is my understanding, that a user running Simconnect, can only allows that user to remove AI traffic created by that user.

Yes, correct -- despite my arguments with MS in early days FSX.

However, Traffic Tools uses some internal method to delete AI traffic, and can remove any generated AI.

Yes, it calls the same routine as FSUIPC.

However, this won't remove the aircraft from the server which is distributing / injecting these aircraft (some presumably representing other users?), so won't they just get re-injected? I thought the question was more oriented towards removing unwanted users or their added AI?

It therefore does not seem to be programatiocally possible to remove the ASI traffic generated by other MP users.

( If someone knows a way, please share !! )

I'm pretty sure I've seen someone actually post the programming details here a few weeks ago. Or was it on the AVSIM SimConnect Forum?

Regards

Pete

 

[bmatt59]

FSX "Traffic Tools" is the only thing I have founnd that will do this.

It is my understanding, that a user running Simconnect, can only allows that user to remove AI traffic created by that user.

However, Traffic Tools uses some internal method to delete AI traffic, and can remove any generated AI.

It therefore does not seem to be programatiocally possible to remove the ASI traffic generated by other MP users.

( If someone knows a way, please share !! )

Geoff_D

Geoff_D, I have searched google and am still unable to find "FSX Traffic Tools". Would you be so kind as to provide a direct link to a download site.

Pete Dowson, after reading through the FSUIPC literature, I got the impression that one had to be flying and heading in a bearing within certain parameters (as to intercept the AI aircraft), to "zap" an AI aircraft. This unfortunatly wont work, because the "host" computer is in Tower mode, not flying. Also, to answer your question, yes I would love to be able to get rid of users that are being disruptive in the session and who are trying to inject AI traffic, but I have been unsuccessful in that direction as well.

I have been trying some network "sniffers" to try and catch the packet that issues the kick command, but that is far out of my league.

Bud

 

[Manuel Ambulo]

Well, yes during multiplayer any client (not only the host) if the AI traffic is being generated then they will indeed be broadcasted to others players in the network, that is (in my opinnion) a bug, because even if the clients that generated the AI traffics, leave the session the AI traffic generated WILL REMAIN IN THE SESSION...THEY WONT BE DELETED!...that is for me a bug, of the multiplayer system.

For AI removal or deletion, checkout this:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11480

I posted that function very time ago in another thread, its very hard to get these functions from the FSX DLLs. I just could get this one and anothers two, but that's it. The only person i know that had found like 98% (or 100%) of all of them is Pete Dowson (author of FSUIPC), and all of them are available from FSUIPC.

That function is for those that want to remove the AI aircrafts from their programs (modules). It deletes the AI generated from FS or any other SimConnect client (even if your are in multiplayer mode). But i want to clarify that it will ONLY delete AI aircrafts not multiplayer aircrafts (as far as i know, of course im not totally sure, but from my experiments i was only able to delete the AI aircrafts from multiplayer). I want to also say that it will only delete those AI aircrafts RESIDING IN YOUR SIM, that means, if the AI aircraft was generated (during multiplayer) by other player's sim, you will only get to delete it from your sim, not from others players sim (as far as i know...). Also, FSUIPC can do it for you, which in my opinnion, is a very easy and convenient way to do it.

In conclusion, so in others words, there are three ways, by making your module call the function posted in that thread, use FSUIPC (which also does it) or use Traffic Tools.

Best Regards,

Manuel Ambulo


NOTE: Sorry by my english...

 

[Pete Dowson]

Geoff_D, I have searched google and am still unable to find "FSX Traffic Tools". Would you be so kind as to provide a direct link to a download site.

Traffic Tools is a DLL provided in the FS SDK -- you need the one which is related to your FSX update status, i.e. original release, SP1 or Accel/SP2.

Pete Dowson, after reading through the FSUIPC literature, I got the impression that one had to be flying and heading in a bearing within certain parameters (as to intercept the AI aircraft), to "zap" an AI aircraft.

Yes, but that's just the user assignable control. It uses the facility in the API interface (via FSUIPC offsets) to Zap any AI aircraft given an ID. See the FSUIPC SDK, offset 2900.

Regards

Pete

 

[StickBender]

AI Removal/Glider tow planes

Hello all,

It is possible to add AI planes and remove them via the traffic tools in multi player. I do this often. Without meaning to hijack the thread I want to ask if anyone has any idea how to remove the Tow Planes? Perhaps another thread would be better for this but I felt it adds an educational dimension to this topic. These little M5's have been known to reach 300,000 feet in the mindless flight mode. Our group enjoys having glider cross country events. And after a while there are so many of them in the session the server pretty much retires to the horseshoe pits.

I realize the routines used for the tow planes are separate from the rest, but is there a way, perhaps through simconnect, to remove them when needed?

Thanks all, appreciate the conversations here..

Randy

 

[bmatt59]

Hello all,

It is possible to add AI planes and remove them via the traffic tools in multi player. I do this often. Without meaning to hijack the thread I want to ask if anyone has any idea how to remove the Tow Planes? Perhaps another thread would be better for this but I felt it adds an educational dimension to this topic. These little M5's have been known to reach 300,000 feet in the mindless flight mode. Our group enjoys having glider cross country events. And after a while there are so many of them in the session the server pretty much retires to the horseshoe pits.

I realize the routines used for the tow planes are separate from the rest, but is there a way, perhaps through simconnect, to remove them when needed?

Thanks all, appreciate the conversations here..

Randy

Randy,

I installed the traffictoolbox.dll and have removed tow planes via that interface.

I assume you are referring to the E-527's. If so, Traffic Tools does a great job of getting rid of them. Just open the map, select one of them and hit the delete key next to your num-pad. Although this will still leave a copy in the clients PC, so they will need to refresh, meaning end-flight and re-join the session.

Bud

 

[StickBender]

Yes, this seems to remove them from the list (map) in the sdk tool. However,they stay present in the session. Any thoughts? Problem is, during a race the clients can not restart. I hope to find a way to remove them via software/simconnect/or Pete's wonderful tool.

 

[bmatt59]

Yes, this seems to remove them from the list (map) in the sdk tool. However,they stay present in the session. Any thoughts? Problem is, during a race the clients can not restart. I hope to find a way to remove them via software/simconnect/or Pete's wonderful tool.

Yes, this removes them from the server, so anyone that joins after that time will not see them. But now they have been distributed to all players and generated within their own PC's. The only way for them to get rid of them now is to re-join, or use Traffic Tools themselves to delete them from their own sessions.

In other words, you have deleted them from the server, thus ending the re-distribution of data to the clients, but still leaving a "ghost" on the clients side. This ghost will continue to do whatever the last update from the server told it. Meaning if it was climbing on a 360 heading, it will do that forever, because it is no longer receiving updates. This is why you see Maules at FL3000.

Bud

 

[Geoff_D]

Yes, this removes them from the server, so anyone that joins after that time will not see them. But now they have been distributed to all players and generated within their own PC's. The only way for them to get rid of them now is to re-join, or use Traffic Tools themselves to delete them from their own sessions.

In other words, you have deleted them from the server, thus ending the re-distribution of data to the clients, but still leaving a "ghost" on the clients side. This ghost will continue to do whatever the last update from the server told it. Meaning if it was climbing on a 360 heading, it will do that forever, because it is no longer receiving updates. This is why you see Maules at FL3000.

Bud

So, maybe what is needed is a 3rd Party "ADDON" simconnect application, that a MP player can run on his FSX system, which will automatically remove those Ghosts ?

Problem #1: Identifying the Ghosts.
Problem #2: Removing them.

A better solution might be to stop the FSX Host sending out those initial Ghost Packets, that generate the Ghosts on the clients machines. A more complex solution, but one that has many advantages, as it only need be run on the HOST machine, and therefore does not require all Players to install a "Ghost Filter".

-----------

The IDEAL solution is for ACES to address this MP issue in FS11.

Geoff_D

 

[bmatt59]

So, maybe what is needed is a 3rd Party "ADDON" simconnect application, that a MP player can run on his FSX system, which will automatically remove those Ghosts ?

Problem #1: Identifying the Ghosts.
Problem #2: Removing them.

A better solution might be to stop the FSX Host sending out those initial Ghost Packets, that generate the Ghosts on the clients machines. A more complex solution, but one that has many advantages, as it only need be run on the HOST machine, and therefore does not require all Players to install a "Ghost Filter".

-----------

The IDEAL solution is for ACES to address this MP issue in FS11.

Geoff_D

Now wouldn't that be nice.

If someone were to take on the project though, maybe you could distinguish them simply by the EC-527 callsign. I have yet to see any other callsign for them. This is also the only way of identifying them, right? Do muultiplayer airccraft have different designations or ID's then AI generated aircraft? I wouldn't think so as they are all AI generated aircraft really.

Another thing, if this 3rd party app were able to "zap" the ghost aircraft almost immediately after creation, would the FSX server even be able to get the packets distributed, before it was removed? How often does FSX send out data packet updates for each aircraft?

I would be willing to pay for something like this, as well as a kick / ban tool.

Bud

 

[Pete Dowson]

If someone were to take on the project though, maybe you could distinguish them simply by the EC-527 callsign. I have yet to see any other callsign for them. This is also the only way of identifying them, right? Do muultiplayer airccraft have different designations or ID's then AI generated aircraft? I wouldn't think so as they are all AI generated aircraft really.

Another thing, if this 3rd party app were able to "zap" the ghost aircraft almost immediately after creation, would the FSX server even be able to get the packets distributed, before it was removed? How often does FSX send out data packet updates for each aircraft?

I would be willing to pay for something like this, as well as a kick / ban tool.

I could add it as an option to FSUIPC4 (is it FSX only?), which therefore wouldn't cost more than the normal registration fee, but I think I need to know more.

Is it that you need any aircraft with callsign "EC-527" deleted as soon as detected (which doesn't sound right)? Or only those over a certain altitude? Or possibly all those except the one nearest to your aircraft? Or what?

If it is going to be automatic the conditions need to be identified pretty exactly to avoid deleting aircraft you really want to be present after all.

This would only be for the user's PC of course. I've no idea about dealing with multiplayer hosts.

Regards

Pete

 

[Geoff_D]

I could add it as an option to FSUIPC4 (is it FSX only?), which therefore wouldn't cost more than the normal registration fee, but I think I need to know more.

Is it that you need any aircraft with callsign "EC-527" deleted as soon as detected (which doesn't sound right)? Or only those over a certain altitude? Or possibly all those except the one nearest to your aircraft? Or what?

If it is going to be automatic the conditions need to be identified pretty exactly to avoid deleting aircraft you really want to be present after all.

This would only be for the user's PC of course. I've no idea about dealing with multiplayer hosts.

Regards

Pete

(1) It's really a little more complex than just immediately removing aircarft with the EC-527 callsign, You do NOT wnat to do that, because if you do, you will ZAP any Tow plane before it can launch your glider.

So for Tow plane examples, its a plane with a callsign EC-527, whose ID has been in the session for more than "n" minutes.


(2) I do not believe will not be able to Zap the AI before the server has told everyone about it, and then once the AI is in a players session, Zapping it on the server does NOT remove it from the player's session (like a normal MP player).

Geoff_D

 

[Pete Dowson]

(1) It's really a little more complex than just immediately removing aircarft with the EC-527 callsign, You do NOT wnat to do that, because if you do, you will ZAP any Tow plane before it can launch your glider.

I know. That's why I asked for the other criteria needed <G>

So for Tow plane examples, its a plane with a callsign EC-527, whose ID has been in the session for more than "n" minutes.

But suppose you are a learner and take longer than most before disconnecting? Maybe it should also be related to how far away the nearest non-tow plane is? Or how long it has been disconnected ... though I doubt there's a way to find out if it is disconnected, is there?

(2) I do not believe will not be able to Zap the AI before the server has told everyone about it, and then once the AI is in a players session, Zapping it on the server does NOT remove it from the player's session (like a normal MP player).

I thought that was why we were talking about the option to do it on the user's PC? I'm confused now.

If it isn't possible, I'll not do it. If it is easy, I'll do it. If it is hard, I need more info, then I'd think about it. ;-)

Pete

 

[Geoff_D]

I know. That's why I asked for the other criteria needed <G>



But suppose you are a learner and take longer than most before disconnecting? Maybe it should also be related to how far away the nearest non-tow plane is? Or how long it has been disconnected ... though I doubt there's a way to find out if it is disconnected, is there?



I thought that was why we were talking about the option to do it on the user's PC? I'm confused now.

If it isn't possible, I'll not do it. If it is easy, I'll do it. If it is hard, I need more info, then I'd think about it. ;-)

Pete

Pete, how about this --

Look at every AI plane's ID, and match them up with the plane's ID associated with with Player's Usernames.
Any plane ID that is not associated with a Username is an injected AI.

ZAP them all, except ones that are within 1/2 mile of a glider. ( ie still potentially towing a glider).

Make this whole process in FSUIPC an "option"

If you are feeling VERY GEBEROUS this Christams, make it an option in the non-registered section of FSUIPC

Geoff_D

 

[Pete Dowson]

Look at every AI plane's ID, and match them up with the plane's ID associated with with Player's Usernames.
Any plane ID that is not associated with a Username is an injected AI.

Can one get hold of player's usernames and plan's IDs through SimConnect? I'll have to have a look. This is not something I'm familiar with.

ZAP them all, except ones that are within 1/2 mile of a glider. ( ie still potentially towing a glider).

So the call sign all the Tow Planes have is not useful? Obviously I get that now.

If you are feeling VERY GEBEROUS this Christams, make it an option in the non-registered section of FSUIPC

Sorry. With less and less new commercial developments using FSUIPC (as expected with SimConnect development), I have to maximise the worth of an FSUIPC registration.

Regards

Pete

 

[bmatt59]

Pete, how about this --

Look at every AI plane's ID, and match them up with the plane's ID associated with with Player's Usernames.
Any plane ID that is not associated with a Username is an injected AI.

ZAP them all, except ones that are within 1/2 mile of a glider. ( ie still potentially towing a glider).

Make this whole process in FSUIPC an "option"

If you are feeling VERY GEBEROUS this Christams, make it an option in the non-registered section of FSUIPC

Geoff_D

Why allow any AI into the server at all? Even if they are within a 1/2 mile of the users aircraft, does everybody in the session need to see them?

Why not just zap them all, the second they are created? This saves time and keeps out a lot of difficult programming. Even if you zap a player's Glider - Tow plane immediately after it is injected, HE will still have HIS copy on HIS system. Deleting it from the server, as we all know, does not delete it from the clients PC. This sounds like a lot simpler of a fix to me ...

Pete, out of curiosity have you decided to try to program something like this?

Bud

 

[Pete Dowson]

Why allow any AI into the server at all? Even if they are within a 1/2 mile of the users aircraft, does everybody in the session need to see them?

Is all this about the Server, only, NOT the user? I'm totally confused in that case.

Why not just zap them all, the second they are created?

Doesn't that stop all users's aircraft being seen by all other user's? Or are you saying you can distinguish stuff you don't want from stuff you do?

This saves time and keeps out a lot of difficult programming. Even if you zap a player's Glider - Tow plane immediately after it is injected, HE will still have HIS copy on HIS system. Deleting it from the server, as we all know, does not delete it from the clients PC. This sounds like a lot simpler of a fix to me ...

Ah, so you don't mean ALL AI, only something which can somehow positively be identified as a tow plane?

Pete, out of curiosity have you decided to try to program something like this?

No. i realise I have no idea what is required still. I simply offered to look at providing an option to automatically delete aircraft with a given call sign.

Note that anyone could write a utility program to do this through FSUIPC in any case. In fact, I'm pretty sure it could be done now as a Lua plug-in for FSUIPC. The plug-in would need to scan the AI/TCAS tables in FSUIPC to find those AI with the requisite callsign, then use the deletion facilities directly.

Regards

Pete

 

[bmatt59]

Is all this about the Server, only, NOT the user? I'm totally confused in that case.



Doesn't that stop all users's aircraft being seen by all other user's? Or are you saying you can distinguish stuff you don't want from stuff you do?



Ah, so you don't mean ALL AI, only something which can somehow positively be identified as a tow plane?



No. i realise I have no idea what is required still. I simply offered to look at providing an option to automatically delete aircraft with a given call sign.

Note that anyone could write a utility program to do this through FSUIPC in any case. In fact, I'm pretty sure it could be done now as a Lua plug-in for FSUIPC. The plug-in would need to scan the AI/TCAS tables in FSUIPC to find those AI with the requisite callsign, then use the deletion facilities directly.

Regards

Pete

Yes, the idea is to have it running only on the server. It is very hard to get every member to download a 3rd party application.

What I am referring to when I say "delete them all" is the AI injected aircraft. Of course we don't want to zap any of the players in the game, that would be pointless.

Geoff_D stated in his above post, that you could compare AI against those that were created by a multilayer client. If this can be done, once an injected AI is discovered by the application, it would remove it from the server, whether it is near a player or not. (IF injected AI, then delete ELSE keep). Even though, I would be perfectly contempt with an option to delete anything with callsign EC-527.

Bud