• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

All Developers Please Read...

n4gix

n4gix

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Guys, it pains me to even have to write this message, but it simply must be done...

...without pointing any fingers or naming anyone in particular, and assuming in advance simple innocence...

Using anyone's artwork without explicit permission is simply wrong.

When designing something, it is perfectly acceptable to use any source you can find for sample textures or ideas, but before releasing your work you simply must replace anything "borrowed" with your own artwork. To do otherwise is legally, ethically and morally wrong...

Over the past few months I've noticed portions of copyrighted artwork belonging to Bobby Hayes, Eaglesoft's artist, being used in several freeware releases. Eaglesoft Development Group pays Bobby every month for the use of his artwork and to be perfectly blunt he's not at all pleased at this situation.

None of us at Eaglesoft want to "name and shame" anyone, but recently Ron had to name Alex Guedes as an offender and requested several websites to remove his release(s) from their file libraries, all because he refused to make the request himself, nor has he responded to any attempts at private contact via PM's or emails.

Please, this must stop.

Anyone else who's done this who quickly and quietly "updates" any releases already made will be forgiven...

I must also add that anyone who has done this and does not take corrective action will no longer be on my Christmas Card list, nor will they receive any further assistance from me either via the forums, PM's or email.
 
Hi Bill.

I'm sticking and locking this thread. You are 100% right and I'll leave the post stuck for a month or so.

Please, everyone, respect your fellow developers and use your own content, unless you have permission from the originator.

DDick
 
Thanks, Dick. As I said, it truly distresses me to even have to write something like this, but perhaps it's a good thing to mention, especially for the "new developers..."

...given that the last few instances have been by "new developers."

That alone is enough to warrant the "presumption of simple innocence."
 
Interesting, my simple answer is that people need to request permission before using any imagesm even just for referance.

Like myself, before I start developing, any images I find i collect and contact the author, if i receive no reply then I delete the image

It is something in which i'd hate to have to go through myself, users stealing files, hence why I always ask first!

As above, read and signed.
 
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Fully agree with this.

Just thinking, maybe we can also add some content to the Wiki later that explains this part of addon development.
 
Is it so hard to ask for permission ?
Of course it isn't ! I already did it ;)
Is it so hard to give a permission ?
Of course not ! I already gave.
May be it's hard to be just an honest man...
Signed too.
 
Anyone who has been into countless hours of hard work on his model/scenery intuitively knows what stealing someone elses work means. What has to be said, must be said, Bill. I fully support your plea.

arno said:
Just thinking, maybe we can also add some content to the Wiki later that explains this part of addon development.
Click to expand...

Definitely. Some guidelines about licensing/copyright in FS-world in the wiki would be great.

Matt. 22:21
 
Just for the record, at least one person has explained to me via email just how this came to pass in his case, and it was indeed "simple innocence."

He has been forgiven, and I will even help this person replace the offending pixels with some that will become uniquely his... ;)

I'll wait a bit longer to see if any of the others will man up... ;)
 
I'm glad that you have managed to resolve yet another incident Bill.

I hope more honest people come forward to using your teams artwork.
 
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Well put Bill. I couldnt agree more.

I myself have been questioned on a couple of things I used in textures. My fuel cap for instance, which someone thought I lifted. I had found it at a Ducatti website. (Its actually for a motorcycle but looks very aircraft looking). Even 'flat black' (matte finish) was claimed by someone. I always make my own flat black textures. Easy enough to do. Why would I want to take anothers work for my own when it takes moments to make one...

Caranedo are very protective on their textures useages, even for repainting. I found out that you are not allowed to modify their interior textures and upload as repaints. (I had created 2 repaints of interiors for their Cessna 182 RG).

If people are going to get into this field and make things for the public, be it payware or freeware, they need to realise 'real quick' about stealing and what it will do to them and their credibility. To be blackballed by this community would be rough as its a very small community and everyone knows everyone.



Bill
 
Decency is the key to a great modeller! I hope you get this issue straighten out Bill, and I see that this hasn't lowered your will to help out others with your vast knowledge, that is very much appreciated!

Jose.
 
When I created my NKL project for FS9, I asked permission from several authors to use their objects/textures.. Most quickly gave permission. Only a couple didn't, but then, they never replied at all to several attempts at contact. Thus, I used their textures, with full credit and note in the read me that I would remove if they wished it. That will cover your butt.

However, I find that in my new FSX version of NKL, I am using TONS of 3rd party objects. I got most of them from a package that contains 1000's of objects from 100's of seperate packages. The problem here is that I have NO WAY to know who to contact about the objects. In this case, I will contact anyone I can find information for, but will use the standard: if you see an object that you have created in my project, and you wish it to be removed, please contact me and it will be removed instantly and updated.

I think every effort should be made to get permission, but designers come and go and there must be a reasonable limit to what a scenery creator must go through to get permission before an item can be determined free public domain. Personally, and I am sure I am in the minority here, anything I create can be used by anyone for any reason at any time. I don't even care if you make money on it. But that is me.

- Greg
 
I agree with you Greg.
I run into the same problem, only, I have not published anything yet and am still hesitant to do so because of this.
 
Hi all.

If you cannot get a response from a developer to use his work... you do NOT have his permission. He is not required to reply to you. You need express permission, regardless of the credit you give him. Otherwise you are asking for trouble.

Most developers include a readme file with their work that spells out their conditions of use. But, developers are not required to do this either. Most countries recognize artistic or intellectual property rights.

And ethically, you need to get permission... your attempts at contact, no matter how how hard you try, are not a license to violate the originator's right of refusal. If you cannot contact, then no permission is given.

Dick
 
Well, Dick, I would say that is an interpretation. I interpret it differently. Again, maybe it's because I allow anything I create to be used by anyone for any reason... But, there is nothing in US law, and I would find hard to believe in most countries laws, that states I MUST have written permission to use something created and released to the community in my works. Actually, quite the opposite, anything (according to US law) released into public domain is usable by the public domain as long as credit is given to the original author/creator, and is not used for profit if it was obtained for free as public domain property.

I know that law very well as I used to create software for pay. I had to learn what I was in for if we released it as a free version. Most people that create software THINK they know the laws...they really don't. But, this would apply to anything released for public use for free with the prior knowledge that the 'thing' WILL be used by people for their own projects.

This refers specifically to script code and such. But would be just as applicable to textures and objects that are put online on free use file sites for anyone to download. You create a chair in gmax, put it online for people to download and use in their projects, you have already given permission for that person to use it. That is how the law is worded. May not be what you want to hear, or other designers, but again, I actually have dealt with this particular law and know it well.

Bottom line..and a judge will say this as well: If you don't want it spread around, don't make it available to other people.

On a personal note: Why would anyone create anything and NOT want to see it everywhere!!!!???? Just my thoughts.. I make it, I would LOVE to see it in your projects, Jon's projects, Jim's projects, Mike's projects...etc...

- Greg
 
Hi,

Why don't we all move to China, they don't care that much about patent rights and such.
But all jokes aside, does it make a difference if it is payware or freeware?
And what about these copyright texts themselves?
Suppose I am in a gay mood and make a pink triangle.dds and upload it for those that want to add a personal touch to their FS experience, adding the text that it cannot be used without my explicit permission and putting an obsolete E-mail address underneath. Nobody else in his right mind would have thought of this, but suppose I do. Would that mean in theory that I could sue those users that 'stole' my artwork/creation if they would use it in FS? If that is the case than nobody would be able to make a pink triangle anymore for FS without me givng permission or even being paid for it.
15% of us (so they say) would feel discriminated for sure:).
The above makes no sense of course, but where is the limit of what can and can not:confused:.
 
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