FSX An old issue is back "coplanar overlapping polygons"

[chewbee]

Hello again,

I am still working on transferring my scene from FS9 to FSX, working on the Gmax part.

The scene is Grimaud HGRI helistation (was available for download on large servers).

Everything is Ok is FS9, the problem I have is that :
The pads on which the heli can stay are circles, three of them are connected by a rectangular poly of asphalt, the first is connected to the hangar by a black piece of road.

Of course the pads are on top the two other pieces a under them (less polys, easier to texture, ... )

Pads are squares in polys (2) mapped with transparency to achieve the circle without polys

In FS9 the way I solve it was naming the materials with the zbias prefix, therefore the material names are in the FS9 version:

• zbias_1_terre
• zbias_2_apron
• zbias_2_taxi
• zbias_3_pad4 (a material for each pad with the same Z rank)

In FSX this seems to has changed (i kept the name just in case
but THEY ARE FLICKERING like hell.

When I started 3D modeling we were calling this issue "coplanar overlapping polygons"

Can you please tell me how we address this issue in FSX materials ? elsewhere ?

Many thanks in advance for tip/clue/help

Best regards

GH Portefait

 

[arno]

Hi,

In FSX there is no zbias option anymore, so you can try to raise the polygons a few centimetres to prevent the flickering. Else you will have to redesign the object to only need one polygon and texture.

 

[chewbee]

Hi,

In FSX there is no zbias option anymore, so you can try to raise the polygons a few centimetres to prevent the flickering. Else you will have to redesign the object to only need one polygon and texture.

Erf !!

Thanks for the answer, but this is a HUGE functional regression between FSX and FS9 !!

While expecting a different answer I kept on looking on my side, I removed the overlapping parts just to see if the pads themselves will flicker against ground ?

In fact, now only one is flickering (pad N°1 which is the one below which the the polys were finishing.
The other are ok, so I applied the material of an other pad to the first ... still flickering ...

The pad are just a plane generating its one mapping coords, made off two triangle (1*1 seg) .

What about the Z stuff from the FSX material special parameters (the help file is not very informative )

Many thanks for your help, posting and going back for a solution

Regards

GHP

 

[arno]

Hi,

I have searched for this before, but I have come to the conclusion there is no option to do zbias. In my ModelConverterX tool I have also implemented it as a small distance bias when converting objects that use a zbias.

If your polygons are on the ground, then the best solution is to make them proper ground polygons using the FS2002 gamepack (this was also the prefered way in FS2004 already).

 

[chewbee]

Hi,

I have searched for this before, but I have come to the conclusion there is no option to do zbias. In my ModelConverterX tool I have also implemented it as a small distance bias when converting objects that use a zbias.

If your polygons are on the ground, then the best solution is to make them proper ground polygons using the FS2002 gamepack (this was also the prefered way in FS2004 already).

Thanks again Arno for your answers

To make sure I have shadows properly casted I guess the ground polys is the only option, however since I read your answer I start looking for an easy tutorial to build those ground polys.

It seems that I need FS2002 gamepack which I do not have, can you point me to a nice tutorial to do what I am looking for ?

I looking around and found stuff but now I am kind of dizzy trying to find my way out of this.

I still wonder why it is so complicated to do scenery properly !!

Many thanks again

best regards

GH Portefait

 

[arno]

Hi,

Have a look at this tutorial, that should help.

I agree with you it is more complex than would be required. That is one of the reasons I have started on a new tool for ground polygons.

 

[chewbee]

Hi,

Have a look at this tutorial, that should help.

I agree with you it is more complex than would be required. That is one of the reasons I have started on a new tool for ground polygons.

Thanks again and again

I found it because this web site is well built

I am struggling with this for few hours now ...
I found the exe digging the net for 2002
I tried configuring Gmax to work with this improvised 2002 gamepack but
when it come to export from Gmax, Gmax fail in founding makemdl.exe.. (I followed all the guidelines I found mostly on FSdevelopper.com like

Installing_the_FS_2002_Gmax-SDK
ASM_tweaking
Tuto ground Poly
Ground poly tweaking

Using FS2004 gamepack and modelcommander I did a .X but failed to convert it to BGL even using BGLC_9.exe
This is kindof annoying of course ...

I Keep on working .. Geez this is not a walk in the park !! it is even tougher than with FS9 ...

Best regards

GH Portefait

 

[arno]

Hi,

If you capture the FS2004 X file, you need to first run that one through the FS2002 MakeMDL to get your ASM files. You can not directly compile the X file with BGLComp.

 

[chewbee]

Hi,

If you capture the FS2004 X file, you need to first run that one through the FS2002 MakeMDL to get your ASM files. You can not directly compile the X file with BGLComp.

Yes I did that and I got asm file that looked like the tuto now (not the case before )

So I tweak them to remove shadow call change the texture name etc ...
and compile them to a BGL (BGLC_9) ...
but this resulting BGL does not load in modelconverterX it says "not a supported BGL // no object in the file

Damm Thanks again* ..... for your help

I just ran FSX and .. it shows but ....

I have it the same file the pads and the taxiways not flickering but overlapped (poor display I guess I have to export two .x file and do to different layers tweaking ....

I keep on looking and thanks again for your help

Not to mention that I cannot get the 2002 gamepack to work !!

Best regards

GH Portefait

 

[arno]

Hi,

Indeed ModelConverterX can not read these BGL files, since they do not contain library objects (maybe later I can add support for them).

If you have polygons on top of each other, you will indeed want to put them on different layers. This would require to ASM files tweaked with different layers. It is possible to put them in one BGL file in the end if you want that. The tutorial about the ground polygon tweaking shows this "complex" example at the end.

If you are running the FS2002 gamepack together with the FS2004 and/or FSX gamepacks, check out the details in the FS2004 gamepack on how to install the FS2002 gamepack properly. The instructions that came with FS2002 are not correct.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Hey GH,

I had just recently added the FS2002 gamepack as well. Couple of tips that worked for me as I had the same issue of MakeMDL.

1. Make sure you have put in the correct path for MakeMDL in Gmax. (plugins folder under the 2002 gamepack directory).
2. Export your model and give it a name with no spaces. For example
"Test Model' should be something like 'Test_Model' or 'TestModel'. (This was my issue).
3. Try to see if you can export the entire model and then try to just do an 'Export Selected' to see if working either way.

Hope that helps,

Clutch

 

[chewbee]

Ok !!

First of all many thanks to Arno and Clutch for their help ...

Finally, the result is here ... way tougher than is FS9 ... but it displays Ok no flickering, shadows, and good contact !

I kept for the moment two separate X files, so this is 4 asm to tweak and two BGL at the end but it works perfectly like the zbias toggle was in the past

But I need two scenes with different sets of materials and different processes to deliver not to mention the tweaking of the ASM files ...

Regarding the configuration of the FS2002 gamepack I just used the document "Installing the FS2004 GMax SDK over the FS2002 GMax SDK.rtf" provided ...
To me I followed it to the letter (like we say in french) but I am on this since 9 am and had quit at 3AM the night before so ...
I may have missed something lol

Will look further

thanks for you help

GH Portefait

 

[chewbee]

Hey GH,

I had just recently added the FS2002 gamepack as well. Couple of tips that worked for me as I had the same issue of MakeMDL.

1. Make sure you have put in the correct path for MakeMDL in Gmax. (plugins folder under the 2002 gamepack directory).
2. Export your model and give it a name with no spaces. For example
"Test Model' should be something like 'Test_Model' or 'TestModel'. (This was my issue).
3. Try to see if you can export the entire model and then try to just do an 'Export Selected' to see if working either way.

Hope that helps,

Clutch

Hello,

I will try to explain what I did

Here is the dialog error :

Even if I name the export "fubar" it fails with the same dialog ... in selected or full and also with a new scene with just a brand new created sphere in it ....

Install is as follows :
in C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002\plugins
I have FSModelExp.dle, makemdl.cfg, makemdl.exe (2202 SDK version in the titlebar)

in C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
plugin.ini contains :

[Directories]
Standard Gmax plug-ins=StdPlugs\
Additional Gmax plug-ins=plugins\
FS2002=gamepacks\FS2002\plugins\
[Help]

and gmax.ini contains :

[Directories]
Fonts=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
Scenes=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
Import=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
Export=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
Help=C:\gmax\Help
Expressions=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
Sounds=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
PlugCFG=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
Heidi Drivers=C:\gmax\Drivers
AutoBackup=C:\gmax\autoback
Materials=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002\texture
GmaxStart=C:\gmax\Scenes
Scripts=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002\scripts
Startup Scripts=C:\gmax\Scripts\Startup
[BitmapDirs]
Dir1=gamepacks\FS2002\textures
[XReferenceDirs]
Dir1=scenes
[Performance]
DeferredPluginLoading=0
UnitType=5
UnitScale=1.000000
AutoUnitConvert=0
TransformGizmoRestoreAxis=0
SFMask=1
Degrade=0
RealTimePlayback=1
PlayActiveOnly=1
USDefaultUnit=0
UnitDispType=1
UnitDispMetricType=2
UnitDispUSType=5
UnitDispUSFraction=3
UnitDispCustomName=FL
UnitDispCustomValue=660.000000
UnitDispCustomUnit=5
DisplayMissingDllMsg=0
[Utility Sets]
ModifierSetName0=
ModSetEntry0=1010183319 1606892208 307388827 306186243 1924876789 -1482568881 1470835552 1493529333 1855492501 1576747447 1698601430 1759998750 -1479269395 1692309753 -1923732607 0 1163371204 1600820 761473067 1521299528 929757223 190734547 81152088 382825757
ModifierSetName1=Gmax default
ModSetEntry1=307388827 306186243 1924876789 -1482568881 1470835552 1493529333 1855492501 1576747447 1698601430 1759998750 -1479269395 1692309753 -1923732607 0 1163371204 1600820 761473067 1521299528 929757223 190734547 81152088 382825757
CurrentModSet=0
[PlugInKeys]
Enabled=1
[CommandPanel]
Columns=1
RollupBreakThreshold=50
[Modstack]
Visible=0
ModStackHeight=128
ShowAllIcons=0
ShowAllSets=1
[WindowState]
GFXType=Direct3D
GFXRenderer=SZB7.hdi
GFXDevice=GDI7.hdi
Size=800 600
Place=92 87
Maximized=1
[CustomMenus]
FileName=C:\gmax\UI\MaxMenus.mnu
[Material Editor]
AmbientColor=0.000000 0.000000 0.000000
[ObjectSnapSettings]
DisplaySnapMarkers=1
SnapMarkerSize=15
SnapMarkerColor=0.000000 1.000000 1.000000
UseAxisConstraints=0
SnapToFrozen=0
[62f565d6,110a1f97]
ObjectSnapPluginState=1 0
[24960fd5,343a4913]
ObjectSnapPluginState=0 0
[1f120de7,30bc716f]
ObjectSnapPluginState=0 0
[52256183,106b5fda]
ObjectSnapPluginState=0 0 0 0 0 0
[MAXHistoryList]
Count=2
History_00=D:\Users\gh\FS\creation\HGRI_FSX
History_01=C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
[FileList]
File1=D:\Users\gh\FS\creation\HGRI_FSX\HGRI_full.gmax
File2=D:\Users\gh\FS\creation\HGRI_FSX\HGRI_ObjectsZero2002.gmax

Shortcut target is :

%GMAXLOC%Gmax.exe -i gamepacks\FS2002\Gmax.ini -p gamepacks\FS2002\plugin.ini

staring from :

%GMAXLOC%

and

GMAXLOC=C:\gmax\

I really can not find what I am doing wrong ?? !! If somebody as a clue from the provided element please fell free to share it with me

Thanks in advance and best regards

GH Portefait

 

[arno]

Hi,

Is there a log file created in the folder you tried to export to? That might contain some more information about the error.

 

[chewbee]

Hi,

Is there a log file created in the folder you tried to export to? That might contain some more information about the error.

No there is not

In fact It seems that the problems is a failure in finding MDLmake from the dle plugin so the gui never appears no way to set up the options except maybe with a file ...

But it really seems that FSModelExp.dle cannot find !! the makemdl exe

Thanks for you help !

Best regards
GH Portefait

 

[Clutch Cargo]

I suspect it could be something with your model causing it not to compile. As a test start a new project and just create a simple box. If it exports ok then it is not the MakeMDL path but indeed something with the model.

Clutch

 

[chewbee]

Hi,

does not workes with a sphere in a new project but I can test a box

Many thanks

GH Portefait

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Ok, so it appears to truly be the path. My paths are different than yours for the plugins.ini I have the FULL path written out.

Yours:

in C:\gmax\gamepacks\FS2002
plugin.ini contains :
Code:

[Directories]
Standard Gmax plug-ins=StdPlugs\
Additional Gmax plug-ins=plugins\
FS2002=gamepacks\FS2002\plugins\
[Help]



Mine:
[Directories]
Standard gmax plug-ins=C:\Flightsim Design Programs\Gmax\StdPlugs
Additional gmax plug-ins=C:\Flightsim Design Programs\Gmax\PlugIns
FS2002=C:\Flightsim Design Programs\Gmax\gamepacks\FS2002\plugins\
[Help]

Try typing in the full path starting with the Drive letter.

Clutch

 

[n4gix]

My gmax.ini and plugin.ini are pretty much identical to what you've posted.

Right-click on your MakeMDL.exe file and check the Properties/Details tab. You should see:

Product version 8.00.020403.01

 

[chewbee]

Hello,

Yes this what I have as a version number (also in the title bar as it work as a standalone

I really have to solve this as I have the same problem in FS2004 gamepack now which means I cannot output a .x anymore ....

many thanks to all for your help

Best regards

GH Portefait