• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Animation export to glTF?

Should ModelConverterX export animations to the glTF format?

  • No

    Votes: 5 5.7%
  • Yes, but only for well known developers

    Votes: 9 10.2%
  • Yes, but only for animations made in ModelConverterX

    Votes: 1 1.1%
  • Yes, but only when the developer has the modeldef.xml sources of all animations

    Votes: 13 14.8%
  • Yes, but I have another idea to prevent piracy (please post below)

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Yes, for everybody

    Votes: 56 63.6%

  • Total voters
    88
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arno

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Hi,

This is only about animations. You can convert non-aninated objects now already.

The gmax format can not be read unfortunately, as its not documented somewhere.
 
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germany
OK, thx Arno, for your reply. I once took a look into one of my *.gmax files with a text editor and discovered all my named parts, along with a lot of and mostly gaga code.

Still don't know, what I should think about your effort to prevent piracy, if I see all those hopeless experiments to convert models for use with MSFS in forums. Hopeless, because few things work; animations sometimes, lightnings and lights seldom, cockpits nearly never, engines ... Mostly there is no option to get anything to work properly in the end at all, without the original design files.

I don't think that I can judge fairly who should have a license and who not
There would be the option for a developer to send you the original design file/s, you would check them and decide whether to grant a license or not. License would be limited to the project in question or generally.

Did not try your glTF export function, since I still did not start with my scenery projects, and need to figure out, whether it works for me; but though, thank you for offering this feature with MCX!
 
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japan
Adding a function to export animation to FS2020 without any limitation means .
Anyone can make it easy to make Models to FS2020.

As a model creator , this is a perfect NO.
Making a model takes years , research , make and check many times and build up.

Giving everyone a way to do convert to FS2020 will end up , flood of unpermitted converted models.

And that will be back as a claim to the original model builder . (Already seen)
Example (This doesn't work , that has a problem it flys terrible. ... and those makes motivation to make lower)

This kind of function should be ONLY given to a person who got the permission from the original author.
Not to all.

And one more

Is doing a poll like this fair ?
Think number who makes and number who just mods .
Which is much more .
I feel it's quite clear that people mods are much more.
 
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Why not just ask if the user wants to export animations to glTF (with the usual intellectual property warnings)? Then if the answer is is yes, a concise summary of the project/user details would be emailed to a mailbox that would be monitored. If an overabundance of payware models were being modded in this fashion, the option could be removed from MCX for all users. Sort of like a survey approach. This is how CTD issues are tracked with many tools, so it should be easy to implement.

Or include the option in a payware "pro" plugin DLL. Then Arno would have a complete list of the users who are exporting animations.
 

arno

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Hi,

I don't think removing such a feature would work, once it's released. People would just use the old version that has it.

I have thought about logging all exports, but that would give me the responsibility to monitor them and act on it if needed. Not sure if that should be my role. Also storing all kind of data would need to meet all privacy rules and once again not sure I want to go that way.
 
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I was just trying to help with concepts as I'm not a commercial developer. The "old version" approach would require that MCX have a limit on each version's lifetime, after which the feature would automatically disable. I agree that this is a lot of work for not much gain.

Another possibility is adding a dummy invisible animation that is a "signature" that the animations were exported with MCX. Someone could delete it with MCX but it would come right back when exported.

No matter what you do a clever pirate will figure a way around the logic.
 
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unitedkingdom
If there are other thoughts on how to balance this, I am happy to consider them. As I do also understand that restricting animation export when loading from MDL files will restrict many of you.
Perhaps there would be no objections to pre fs9 MDLs being convertible and retaining animations?
 

arno

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Perhaps there would be no objections to pre fs9 MDLs being convertible and retaining animations?

That's an interesting thought, would be good to hear how other developers think about this.
 
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england
That would be fine for the initial conversion, but what if you needed to go back and re-edit the animations or materials? How would mcx know it was originally an fs9 model?
 

arno

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The idea is to only lock animation export when you come from MDL. So if you have done the intiial conversion and saved as glTF, you could always import that again. Since the glTF format is open, I do not plan to block animation export there (once somebody would publish a product in glTF it is open by definition).
 

Lagaffe

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Hi,

I don't understand exactly.
My situation: I have a lot of models made under GMax with MDLs (3 Cessna, 2 Menestrel HN-433 and HN-700, one NC-858S, one AlphaJet).
My actual problem is to port all these stuffs under Blender and also remake all animations in order to compile to glTF.
If I understand, I am bloked, the only solution is to transfert all my stuff (Gmax => Obj WaveFront) under Blender to make again all animations.

Does I launch all thses transformations or does I wait ?
 
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unitedkingdom
My situation: I have a lot of models made under GMax with MDLs (3 Cessna, 2 Menestrel HN-433 and HN-700, one NC-858S, one AlphaJet).
My actual problem is to port all these stuffs under Blender and also remake all animations in order to compile to glTF.
Hypothetically, how much would be lost if these were exported from GMax as fs8 MDLs?
 

Lagaffe

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First, I think you speak of FS9 (FS2004) MDLs

Second, the main difference between FSX and FS2004 was that on FSX it was possible to create smaller objects without the compiler doing any concatenation between two nearby vertex. So if you take a aircraft with a great number of polygones and small objects you export using FS9 MDLs don't succeed.
My C150K_Ext_Bush.MDL ... 5456 Ko under FSX can't be exported to FS9 in this stade. I obtain an error and I lost all produced files.

Using the ULE2 method of LionHearth ( I have developped with a friend of mine another method based on BAT scripting: http://www.pilote-virtuel.com/viewtopic.php?pid=770959 - to by pass the limitation to 65536 polygons) it is possible to multiply the model by a 32 factor and succeed in the export to FS9 MDL (this method allows to enlarge the space between two vertex too close so that the compilation does not make concatenation) :stirthepo
But in the end you will have another problem when you have to reduce to the initial size without breaking all the animations :banghead:.

As you see, you can lost too much time for a poor result. In theses conditions, I prefer to port directly my models under Blender : it is more secure.
 
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Hello:

I agree with the consensus of the FS Community as a whole, that a converter is needed for porting legacy format MDLs to MSFS-2020 glTF format with animations.

While we might all welcome new content created for MSFS-2020 in native format, IMHO, such a MDL converter is needed ASAP to facilitate popularity of MSFS-2020.


I believe it would be a overwhelming and legally risky task for Arno to be a record keeper- and/or gate keeper- for any FS developer's option to export animations via MCX.

This factor must also be considered with an objective assessment of the extensive time and effort it took Arno to add options for comprehensive animation I/O via MCX.

Years ago, it was our consensus as a Community that Arno might best focus on attending to his young family, and we wished him well as we planned to be patient.


AFAIK, most of us also genuinely wish MS and Asobo well with MSFS-2020.

At this time however, one might wonder whether the launch of MSFS-2020 may be in jeopardy, if FS Developers and other end users begin to lose tolerance for MSFS-2020 ongoing issues with functionality, and lack of a comprehensive, well-documented SDK.

One might wonder if patience is wearing dangerously thin, as posts by FS Developers / other MSFS-2020 end users report MSFS to be unpredictable and unreliable.


I believe most FS Developers and other MSFS-2020 end users want their chosen favorite airport / aircraft model / livery / flight physics "As Real As It Gets" ...NOW.


IMHO, for the FS Community to continue supporting MSFS-2020, it must not be limited by restrictions in functionality- or delay in availability- of a MDL converter.


While I believe we all wish Arno continued success in his endeavors with MCX and his other FS utilities, if he is not yet ready / willing / able to abide by the wishes of the FS Development Community expressed in the survey above, the FS Development Community may opt to move past limitations imposed on the current / future builds of MCX, by releasing other 3rd party MDL to glTF converters ...that read / export both legacy format and newer skin-and-bone type animations for use in a MSFS-2020 compatible format.


BTW: I found Lagaffe's forum thread linked above quite interesting; here's a Google Translated version:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.pilote-virtuel.com/viewtopic.php?pid=770959&prev=search&pto=aue

GaryGB
 
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rhumbaflappy

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I had voted Yes for everybody.

On thinking further, I now believe MCX should not export animations to glTF. Almost 99% of animated models will be FSX aircraft. If the original developers of these aircraft wish to provide them for MSFS, they can most probably convert their max files to the new sim (although with some difficulty). If animation of these models were to be freely obtained, then hackers will push FSX models onto the community and there will be a mess of partially working airplanes (in fact it's already happening). The original developers will be robbed of the ability to convert these airplanes themselves, and lose the potential income they might make.

Arno is right that there is a potential for an ethical crisis. It is easily avoided by not providing animation export.
 
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Hi Dick:

If the original developers of FSX aircraft "convert their aircraft to the new sim", that would be a good thing.

I would be concerned that process may take more time than MSFS-2020 has to "straighten up and fly right" before it loses more of its end users.


IMHO, original developers will be "robbed of the ability to convert these airplanes themselves, and lose the potential income they might make", if they repeatedly have to contend with "a mess of partially working" Flight Simulator features.

AFAIK, if / when original developers convert these airplanes themselves, there will be no need for 'a mess of partially working airplanes', as MSFS end users ultimately want aircraft that work properly, and would likely avail themselves of the 'official' version of the aircraft as a legitimate purchase / download.


Perhaps if MSFS-2020 provided a comprehensive, well-documented SDK, and flight dynamics allowing aircraft to "straighten up and fly right" ...it may eliminate the perceived need for "hackers" ...to 'hack' in an attempt to achieve a FS experience that is "As Real As It Gets".


Of course, many original developers of FSX aircraft by now have either retired- or otherwise left- the MS-FS Community ...with no forwarding e-mail address.

This may make a case for a fully-automated aircraft converter for pre-MSFS-2020 / abandon-ware aircraft to be used ONLY on one's own computer.


BTW: Microsoft previously made available an actual software utility for conversion of aircraft from prior FS versions to the (then) current version of FS.


But maybe we will see more progress with an existing project that requires an original legacy aircraft as input, with a fully converted MSFS aircraft as output ? :scratchch

GaryGB
 
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