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FS2004 AutoPilot Bank Limiter

Messages
206
Country
unitedkingdom
Hi folks,

I know there are variables for the max AP bank and they can be changed in FSX. Is there any way to do it in FS9 using XML and the in-built AP? I have seen this feature on some aircraft but suspect that they also have a fully custom AP.
I would want to have the ability to change the max bank between 15-30 with 5 degree increments in normal AP flight and then also the autoflight system would override this setting in certain circumstances...

Thanks for any info.

Cheers,
Geoff
 
Hi, what you want is perfectly possible.

Take a look at this:


Code:
<Macro Name="DegreesToAdd">
	(L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 0 == (* AUTO Bank by default *)
	if{ (A:Airspeed True, knots) s0 200 &lt;= 30 * 
		  l0 200 &gt; l0 250 &lt;= * l0 200 - 50 / 10 * 15 + near * +
		  l0 250 &gt; 15 * +
		}
	els{ 30 25 15 10 5 0 6 (L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) case }
</Macro>


Code:
<Element Name="Heading Sel Status">
   	<Select>
   		<Value>
		(L:AP Heading Sel, bool)
  		if{ (A:Autopilot heading lock dir, degrees) (A:Plane Heading Degrees Gyro, degrees) near - dnor s1 180 &lt;= 
                if{ l1 } els{ l1 360 - } (>L:AP Heading Diff, degrees)
                (L:AP Heading Diff, degrees) 0 &gt; 
   		if{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (A:Plane Heading Degrees Gyro, degrees) near @DegreesToAdd + dnor s0 - dnor 180 &lt;= 
                if{ l1 } els{ l1 360 - } 0 &gt;
	        if{ l0 (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
		els{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
		}
   		(L:AP Heading Diff, degrees) 0 &lt; 
   		if{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (A:Plane Heading Degrees Gyro, degrees) near @DegreesToAdd - dnor s0 - dnor180 &lt;= 
                if{ l1 } els{ l1 360 - } 0 &lt;
		if{ l0 (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
		els{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
		 }
		 }   		
              </Value>
   	</Select>
</Element>

This is an extract of my 757 autopilot written may years ago, and for FS2004.
I pasted a raw copy, don't expect that I will remember what it does in detail; basically the key is to deal with bank limit through an incremen/decrement of the heading during a turn.

Hope this helps

Tom
 
Thanks for the reply. That's a very clever method of doing it, although I suppose it only works for HDG hold and not NAV or APP etc...

Unfortunately, since I an unable to code a decent FMS and ND myself, I am using the ISG1 gauges => they control navigation by playing the HDG var, so any method that also relies on changing that will not be compatible.

Cheers,
Geoff
 
... although I suppose it only works for HDG hold and not NAV or APP etc...

Yes, as it should be. Bank limit only applies to HDG modes; in NAV and APP it is automatically controlled by the autopilot with no input from the crew available.

Unfortunately, since I an unable to code a decent FMS and ND myself, I am using the ISG1 gauges => they control navigation by playing the HDG var, so any method that also relies on changing that will not be compatible.

Cheers,
Geoff

I guess with a bit of effort you could find a way to override the HDG commanded by that gauges.

Tom
 
Nice info but incomplete, where are the gauge drawing , <Mouse>, etc. info?
 
GR8, thanks for the reanimation;)

TOM, thanks for the code!!
And can your B757 panel found in the www??

Edi
 
For EduHir, I do not understand your english of: "Thanks for the reanimation" and "And can your B757 panel found in the www??" I do not know if you are trying to be helpful or mocking. I personally gleaned the autopilot.xml from the B737800.cab from FSX and isolated the bank limit code but I was not able to get it to work (with some modifications to apply to FS9). I then made or copied appropriate bmp's and added the gauge to my aircraft (Cessna 172 for testing). Here is the xml code I gleaned:

<Gauge Name="BALimitFSX" Version="1.0">
<!-- Background light -->
<Element>
<Visible>(L:DimBrt,bool) !</Visible>
<Element>
<Select>
<Image Name="BALimitFSX.bmp" Bright="No" ImageSizes="205,78,0,0"/>
</Select>
</Element>
</Element>
<Element>
<Visible>(L:DimBrt,bool)</Visible>
<Element>
<Select>
<Image Name="BALimitFSX.bmp" Bright="Yes" ImageSizes="205,78,0,0"/>
</Select>
</Element>
</Element>

<Element id="Bank Angle Knob">
<FloatPosition>266.322,47.405</FloatPosition>
<Image id="Image" Name="autopilot_knob_ap_bank_angle.bmp">
<Transparent>True</Transparent>
<Axis>12,12</Axis>
</Image>
<Rotation id="Rotation">
<PointsTo>EAST</PointsTo>
<Expression id="Expression">
<Minimum>10.000</Minimum>
<Maximum>30.000</Maximum>
<Script>(A:AUTOPILOT MAX BANK,degrees)</Script>
</Expression>
<NonlinearityTable id="NonlinearityTable">
<NonlinearityEntry id="NonlinearityEntry">
<ExpressionResult>10.000</ExpressionResult>
<FloatPosition>259.000,60.000</FloatPosition>
</NonlinearityEntry>
<NonlinearityEntry id="NonlinearityEntry">
<ExpressionResult>30.000</ExpressionResult>
<FloatPosition>258.000,34.000</FloatPosition>
</NonlinearityEntry>
</NonlinearityTable>
</Rotation>
</Element>


</MouseArea>


<MouseArea id="Bank Angle Concentric Knob - Decrement">
<FloatPosition>254.000,39.000</FloatPosition>
<Size>5,18</Size>
<CursorType>DownArrow</CursorType>
<MouseClick id="MouseClick">
<KeyEvent>AP_MAX_BANK_DEC</KeyEvent>
</MouseClick>
<Tooltip id="Tooltip">
<DefaultId>TOOLTIPTEXT_B737_AUTOPILOT_BANK_LIMIT</DefaultId>
</Tooltip>
</MouseArea>
<MouseArea id="Bank Angle Concentric Knob - Increment">
<FloatPosition>275.000,39.000</FloatPosition>
<Size>5,18</Size>
<CursorType>UpArrow</CursorType>
<MouseClick id="MouseClick">
<KeyEvent>AP_MAX_BANK_INC</KeyEvent>
</MouseClick>
<Tooltip id="Tooltip">
<DefaultId>TOOLTIPTEXT_B737_AUTOPILOT_BANK_LIMIT</DefaultId>
</Tooltip>
</MouseArea>
</Gauge>

... any help to make it work for FS9 would be greatly appreciated.
 
Gr8guitar,

I guess Edi's comment about "reanimation" means you actually bumped an old thread, which he found interesting indeed. No mocking at all for sure.

Regarding your plea for help, sorry but I believe (A:AUTOPILOT MAX BANK,degrees) does not exists in FS9. Precisely because of this is that I had to write the piece of code posted in my previous message.
Anyway, you can use that code as an example on the way to go. Unfortunately that snippet is bundled into a big and complex gauge that wouldn't be of any use to post as is, with <Mouse>, <Update> and the rest of its content.

@Edi : Nope, I've never put my panel in www; actually I don't have it complete now, lost some gauges in one of my PC crashes, long time ago :oops:

Tom
 
Okay, thank you for your response. I have Level D 767, and Captain Sim 757 (for FS9), both have the bank limit gauge but both also are written in C++ and using the .gau extension. I have not been able to see the code other than to open it and see the files. It would be nice to have the bank limit gauge for other aircraft for FS9 but not a big deal. Again, thank you for your time and information.
 
What about table 1203 in the airfile *autopilot limits
it has in mine
Bank limit TAS 1=40
Bank limit TAS 2=35
*TAS1=200
*TAS2=140
Which is wrong looking at it because my AP is limited to 25deg at 140
Which I presume is how it works as there's no help text
 
Those numbers are (or should be) valid only when bank limit is commanded by autopilot NAV or APP modes. Aircraft like the 757,737,767, etc have a switch to manually set the bank limit to a value between 15 and 30(40) when in HDG (heading) mode only, as I stated in one of my former messages.

I have Level D 767, and Captain Sim 757 (for FS9), both have the bank limit gauge but both also are written in C++ and using the .gau extension.

Yes, and those aircraft may use a routine similar to the one I posted above.

Tom
 
Hello, I must admit, I really don't know anything about xml. 1) Where could a person go to learn, in particular to learn for FS? I searched the Internet, found nothing that I understood that goes to the extent of the following: what do they mean? enum, (* AUTO Bank by default) * isn't '*' used as a multiplier? , s0, l0, near, and case.

<Macro Name="DegreesToAdd">
(L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 0 == (* AUTO Bank by default *)
if{ (A:Airspeed True, knots) s0 200 &lt;= 30 *
l0 200 &gt; l0 250 &lt;= * l0 200 - 50 / 10 * 15 + near * +
l0 250 &gt; 15 * +
}
els{ 30 25 15 10 5 0 6 (L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) case }
</Macro>
Thanks.
 
Yes, thank you. I have already gone there. That is where I at least learned to assign keys to xml's, ie:
<Keys>
<On Key="74"> do stuff </On>
</Keys> but as I stated above, there are particulars that I don't understand. I think I may be confused on syntax as was as some parameters, enum, s0, l0, etc. that I mentioned above. I got the ==, &lt, &gt...
okay, figured out the s0 and l0 is explained above the key info. they are stored info within the SAME line of code. Well, I came across this website (Don't know how long it'll be up as it is Microsoft on FS), very helpful to learn the logic: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526953.aspx. Well, many weeks have passed and I'm still working on a bank limiter gauge. I must admit to taguilo (a very smart person), I still don't know how your info. is helpful to xml novices like me. It doesn't explain/show how to tie graphics and mouse clicks to the make the gauge work. In addition, a bank limiter gauge should have nothing to do with airspeed unless the airspeed is being used in the calculation, along with bank angle to control the rate of turn. Assuming a constant bank angle, then the formula would be: (2 pi * (A:Airspeed True, knots) * 5280 * 1.15 * 3600 / (L:BankLimit, Degrees) pi * 180 * tg 32.2 * 60 *) (>A: DELTA HEADING RATE, Degrees). And that's assuming a 1 g at 32.2. One could use (vs1-vs2)/t for actual g. But again, that's not needed if one wants to maintain a constant bank angle. It seems to me that only given bank info. and control of airlerons/rudder would be needed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello. I wrote down the above code to see if it worked (code below) but it did not seem to respond to hold bank. What am I missing? The animations work okay but no ability to actually hold the bank at a fixed angle with a heading change. Thanks.

<Gauge Name="BALimiter" Version="1.0">
<Image Name="BALimitGrey.bmp" Luminous="Yes" ImageSizes="114,52"/>

<Macro Name="DegreesToAdd">(* AUTO Bank by default *)
(L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 0 ==
if{ (A:Airspeed True, knots) s0 200 &lt;= 30 *
l0 200 &gt; l0 250 &lt;= * l0 200 - 50 / 10 * 15 + near * +
l0 250 &gt; 15 * +
}
els{ 30 25 15 10 5 0 6 (L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) case }
</Macro>

<Element Name="Heading Sel Status">
<Select>
<Value>
(L:AP Heading Sel, bool)
if{ (A:Autopilot heading lock dir, degrees) (A:Plane Heading Degrees Gyro, degrees) near - dnor s1 180 &lt;=
if{ l1 } els{ l1 360 - } (>L:AP Heading Diff, degrees)
(L:AP Heading Diff, degrees) 0 &gt;
if{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (A:Plane Heading Degrees Gyro, degrees) near @DegreesToAdd + dnor s0 - dnor 180 &lt;=
if{ l1 } els{ l1 360 - } 0 &gt;
if{ l0 (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
els{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
}
(L:AP Heading Diff, degrees) 0 &lt;
if{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (A:Plane Heading Degrees Gyro, degrees) near @DegreesToAdd - dnor s0 - dnor180 &lt;=
if{ l1 } els{ l1 360 - } 0 &lt;
if{ l0 (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
els{ (L:AP Heading, degrees) (>K:HEADING_BUG_SET) }
}
}
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>

<Element>
<Position X="55" Y="29"/>
<Image Name="BASel-0.bmp">
<Axis X="26" Y="26"/>
</Image>
<Rotate>
<Value>(L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum)</Value>
<Nonlinearity>
<Item Value="0" Degrees="0"/>
<Item Value="1" Degrees="30"/>
<Item Value="2" Degrees="60"/>
<Item Value="3" Degrees="90"/>
<Item Value="4" Degrees="120"/>
<Item Value="5" Degrees="150"/>
</Nonlinearity>
</Rotate>
</Element>

<Mouse>

<Area Left="0" Top="0" Width="30" Height="52">
<Tooltip>Dec Max Items</Tooltip>
<Cursor Type="DownArrow"/>
<Click Repeat="Yes">
(L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 1 &lt; if{ 0 (&gt;L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) } els{ (L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 1 - (&gt;L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) }</Click>
</Area>

<Area Left="85" Top="0" Width="30" Height="52">
<Tooltip>Inc Max Items</Tooltip>
<Cursor Type="UpArrow"/>
<Click Repeat="Yes">
(L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 5 &gt; if{ 6 (&gt;L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) } els{ (L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) 1 + (&gt;L:AP Bank Limit Position,enum) }</Click>
</Area>
</Mouse>
</Gauge>
 

Attachments

  • Bank Angle Limiter.JPG
    Bank Angle Limiter.JPG
    224.9 KB · Views: 705
In FS9 it's much simpler than you imagine. Go to the aircraft.cfg file and look-up [autopilot]. In there you should see
max_bank=20.000000
Then in the autopilot gauge you can adjust that value if needed. For example the VC10 autopilot has a manual turn knob that allows the pilot to turn the a/c by using the AP control system.
The AP gauge is very large and complex but these snippets mught give you an idea.

Code:
         <Axis X="33.5" Y="33"/>
      </Image>
      <Rotate>
         <Value Minimum="-30" Maximum="30">(L:AP MAN TURN 2,number)</Value>
         <Nonlinearity>
            <Item Value="30" X="-30" Y="25"/>
            <Item Value="2" X="-15" Y="-35"/>
        <Item Value="0" X="0" Y="-35"/>
            <Item Value="-2" X="15" Y="-35"/>
        <Item Value="-30" X="30" Y="25"/>
         </Nonlinearity>
         <Delay DegreesPerSecond="120"/>
      </Rotate>
   </Element>
This just displays and controls the movement of the bmp for the knob.


Code:
//--------------------- MAN TURN - ADJUST TURN RIGHT IF BANK IS GREATER THAN SET VALUE -------------
   <Element>
    <Select>
      <Value>(L:AP Var1,number) 2 == d (A:Attitude indicator bank degrees,degrees) (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) &gt; r &amp;&amp; if{ (A:Attitude indicator bank degrees,degrees) (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) - abs 6 min -700 * d 400 (A:AIRSPEED INDICATED,knots) / r * (&gt;K:AXIS_AILERONS_SET) }</Value>
    </Select>
   </Element>
//--------------------- MAN TURN - ADJUST TURN LEFT IF BANK IS LESS THAN SET VALUE ------------------
   <Element>
    <Select>
      <Value>(L:AP Var1,number) 2 == d (A:Attitude indicator bank degrees,degrees) (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) &lt; r &amp;&amp; if{ (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) (A:Attitude indicator bank degrees,degrees) - abs 6 min 700 * d 400 (A:AIRSPEED INDICATED,knots) / r * (&gt;K:AXIS_AILERONS_SET) }</Value>
    </Select>
   </Element>
This locks out the bank angle

Code:
//---------------------------------- MAN TURN LEFT ---------------------------------
      <Area Top="69" Left="158" Width="36" Height="70">
           <Tooltip>Manual Turn %((L:AP MAN TURN 2,number))%!d!</Tooltip>
         <Cursor Type="Hand"/>
         <Click>(L:AP Var1,number) 2 == d (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) 30 &lt; r &amp;&amp; if{ (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) 2 + (&gt;L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) }</Click>
      </Area>
//---------------------------------- MAN TURN RIGHT -----------------------------------
      <Area Top="69" Left="193" Width="36" Height="70">
           <Tooltip>Manual Turn %((L:AP MAN TURN 2,number))%!d!</Tooltip>
         <Cursor Type="Hand"/>
         <Click>(L:AP Var1,number) 2 == d (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) -30 &gt; r &amp;&amp; if{ (L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) 2 - (&gt;L:AP MAN TURN 2,number) }</Click>
And these are the mouse controls.

You will find that most APs will have a bank limit built in in real life. This does not appear to have been implemented in xpl for example where all APs will bank to 30deg regardless.
 
"flythemskies",

Tom's post in #2 is perfectly feasible and should work. I had a very similar set of code for a FS9 737.
A few notes for his example. All the logic is done in the background. IE outside of any stock autopilot variable / commands, but uses them. Therefore you must use background L:Vars for human intervention.

1) All AP heading commands & vars: the autopilot heading window, bugs & the autopilot heading knob(s) must use the var --> (L:AP Heading, degrees)
2) He used background L:Vars for nearly everything, including the HDG Hold function. Without activating his L:Var none of the code will work.
3) In the aircraft.cfg [Autopilot] section, adjust "max_bank=" so it is at 30 or greater.

Adding the following code snippets should get Tom's example working,
XML:
<Update>
<!-- Keep stock HDG hold function aligned with Tom's bank angle code -->
(L:AP Heading Sel, bool) (A:AUTOPILOT HEADING LOCK, bool) != if{ (A:AUTOPILOT HEADING LOCK, bool) (>L:AP Heading Sel, bool) }

<!-- Update heading hold var. from a saved flight or other, so when aircraft is 1st loaded it updates to current. -->
(G:Var1) 0 == if{ (A:Autopilot heading lock dir, degrees) (>L:AP Heading, degrees) 1 (>G:Var1) }
</Update>

<!-- (PSUEDO) Display Heading BUG code -->
<Value>(L:AP Heading, degrees) dgrd (A:Plane heading degrees gyro,radians) -</Value>

<!-- (PSUEDO) Heading DISPLAY code (as digital string) -->
<String>%((L:AP Heading, degrees))%!03d!%&#176;%</String>

<Mouse>
<Area Name="HEADING ADJUST KNOB" Left="XX" Top="YY" Width="XX" Height="YY">
<Tooltip>Adjust AP Heading Direction</Tooltip>
<Cursor Type="DownArrow"/>
<Click Repeat="Yes">(L:AP Heading, degrees) -- dnor (>L:AP Heading, degrees)</Click>
</Area>

<Area Name="HEADING ADJUST KNOB" Left="XX" Top="YY" Width="XX" Height="YY">
<Tooltip>Adjust AP Heading Direction</Tooltip>
<Cursor Type="UpArrow"/>
<Click Repeat="Yes">(L:AP Heading, degrees) ++ dnor (>L:AP Heading, degrees)</Click>
</Area>
</Mouse>
 
Last edited:
Tom and Roman

That's really cool !

I enjoy doing IFR procedures , and strictly speaking the turn has to be , a Standard Rate turn or Rate 1 turn , this requires a turn rate of 3 degrees per second .
I have 5 Bank angles in the aircraft cfg and a toggle selector gauge in the panel , it's based on the default 737 .
Each bank angle value is set to provide an approximation of a Rate 1 turn for each of 5 different airspeeds , it works to a degree , the fly in the ointment is the
sluggish nature of the autopilot where it reduces the bank angle in the final stages of the turn , thus taking forever to assume the desired heading .
Holding patterns end up looking in a sad shape , and it just doesn't work at all for procedure turns , and trying to do various search patterns is a nightmare .

For manual turns I have the following code in my PFD instrument , so it's easy to hold exactly 3 degrees per second ,
Code:
      <!--Turn Degrees per Second-->
      <Element>
      <Visible>(L:Turn mode,enum) 1 ==</Visible>     
      <Element>
          <Position X="30" Y="151"/>
            <FormattedText X="70" Y="24" Font="Tahoma" FontSize="10" LineSpacing="12" Adjust="Left" Color="#FFCC00" Bright="Yes">
              <Font FontSize="9"/>           
              <Color Value="#A1A9A6"/>           
              <String>%((A:Plane Bank Degrees, degrees) 57.3 / cos (A:DELTA HEADING RATE, degrees per second) r / abs )%!3.2f!%  %((A:Plane Bank Degrees, degrees) 57.3 / cos (A:DELTA HEADING RATE, degrees per second) r /  0 &lt; if{ '&lt;' } els{ '>' } )%!s!%
                      \n%\{fnt1}%\{clr2}%TURN  \{dplo= } / s%</String>
            </FormattedText>
       </Element>
       </Element>

With the previously mentioned procedures it should be possible to force and maintain a Bank angle to achieve a 3 degrees per second turn rate throughout the turn to the new heading .
That's fantastic .

Cheers
Karol
 
If anyone is interested in a simple Digital , Bank limit gauge ,
It's very small and its appearance could be improved .

Following ,
1 . Xml instrument , does not require any bitmaps .
Code:
<Gauge Name="Bank Angle Variable Switch" Version="1.0">
//By Karol Chlebowski @ 2017 **
                   <Size X="35" Y="44"/>
      <Element Name="BANK RECTANGLE">   
          <Position X="0" Y="0"/>
            <Rectangle Width="35" Height="44" FillColor="#121212" Bright="Yes"/>           
      </Element>
      <Element>
          <Position X="6" Y="2"/>
             <Text X="39" Y="12" Bright="Yes" Length="4" Font="Tahoma" FontSize="10" Color="#349F34" Adjust="Left" VerticalAdjust="Center" Multiline="No" Fixed="No">
                <String>%Bank%</String>
             </Text>
      </Element>
      <Element>
          <Position X="8" Y="16"/>
             <Text X="27" Y="12" Bright="Yes" Length="4" Font="Tahoma" FontSize="10" Color="#349F34" Adjust="Left" VerticalAdjust="Center" Multiline="No" Fixed="No">
                <String>%((A:AUTOPILOT MAX BANK,degrees))%!02d!</String>
             </Text>
      </Element>
     <Element>
          <Position X="2" Y="30"/>
             <Text X="33" Y="12" Bright="Yes" Length="9" Font="Tahoma" FontSize="8" Color="#A1A9A6" Adjust="Left" VerticalAdjust="Center" Multiline="No" Fixed="No">
                <String>%DEC   INC%</String>
             </Text>
      </Element>     

  <Mouse>
     <Area Left="1" Width="14" Top="26" Height="17"> 
      <Tooltip>DECREASE_BANK_LIMIT</Tooltip>
      <Cursor Type="DownArrow"/>
      <Click Event="AP_MAX_BANK_DEC"/>
      </Area>
      <Area Left="16" Width="14" Top="26" Height="17"> 
      <Tooltip>INCREASE_BANK_LIMIT</Tooltip>
      <Cursor Type="UpArrow"/>
      <Click Event="AP_MAX_BANK_INC"/>
      </Area>     
   </Mouse>
</Gauge>
2 . example of aircraft cfg entry , these 5 bank angle values can be changed to suit any aircraft type .
Code:
aircraft.cfg

[AUTOPILOT]
MAX_BANK=60,48,41,36,25

Cheers
Karol
 
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