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Background images

G

Gorchi

Messages
152
Problems with loading background images

Hi!

I am having a lot of problems with background images. I tried KLGA airport with image and it showed up in the airport. Nice feature. I saved the airport in XML and then I checked XML - no data about background image was saved, not even as comment :confused:
Before that I was trying to import my background image of LJLJ; it is actually quite big, approx 5x5km, corners should be around
N46.242195375364176, E14.423160552978516, N46.20656692212202, E14.491825103759764. But no success! I pressed the add image to airport, the button was pressed then nothing... Is the image to large, is there something about famous decimal comma instead decimal point, maybe to far on the east?

Btw Russell, I would be grateful if at least objects could have some comments in the XML file like name of the object. Maybe if it is possible to parse XML file for comments so if once there will be a listing of all objects, I would know them by name not by GUID. After all we are humans, not computers :) Maybe FSXP could tag such comments like
<!-- FSXPObjName="My nice object name --!>
Just an idea though.

Best regards,
 
Last edited:
Gorchi said:
Hi!

I am having a lot of problems with background images. I tried KLGA airport with image and it showed up in the airport. Nice feature. I saved the airport in XML and then I checked XML - no data about background image was saved, not even as comment :confused:
Click to expand...

The image data is not saved in the airport xml file. The airport xml file contains only that data that FSX understands. Putting it in as a comments could be possible, but that would get messy I think.

The image data is saved in a separate xml file located in your user application data directory, which on XP is C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\zBlueSoftware\FSXPlanner.

Before that I was trying to import my background image of LJLJ; it is actually quite big, approx 5x5km, corners should be around
N46.242195375364176, E14.423160552978516, N46.20656692212202, E14.491825103759764. But no success! I pressed the add image to airport, the button was pressed then nothing... Is the image to large, is there something about famous decimal comma instead decimal point, maybe to far on the east?
Click to expand...

How big is the image in pixels? How big is in it KB? After you pressed the add image button did anything happen, or did the app freeze? If it froze it could be that the image you were trying to import is too large.

Btw Russell, I would be grateful if at least objects could have some comments in the XML file like name of the object. Maybe if it is possible to parse XML file for comments so if once there will be a listing of all objects, I would know them by name not by GUID. After all we are humans, not computers :) Maybe FSXP could tag such comments like
<!-- FSXPObjName="My nice object name --!>
Just an idea though.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. I think there may be an option for a 'nice' name in the xml for these items. I'll have to check to make sure though.

Do you mean only for those items that have GUIDs, such as towers, jetways, scenery, etc, or for all items?

-Russell
 
rf360m said:
The image data is not saved in the airport xml file. The airport xml file contains only that data that FSX understands. Putting it in as a comments could be possible, but that would get messy I think.
Click to expand...
I don't think so but I would include a link to the file as a comment so it won't mess up with BGLCOMP.

rf360m said:
The image data is saved in a separate xml file located in your user application data directory, which on XP is C:\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\zBlueSoftware\FSXPlanner.
Click to expand...
Argh, I really do hate this folder!!! It is so deeply burried somewhere in the system and since I have Total Commander allready opened in the same folder as source of my project, I would expect it there. Also I do backup project folders and don't mess with those Documents&Settings folder...

rf360m said:
How big is the image in pixels? How big is in it KB? After you pressed the add image button did anything happen, or did the app freeze? If it froze it could be that the image you were trying to import is too large.
Click to expand...
In pixels it is approx 6500x6500 pix, 12MB JPG file. I guess this is too much :) Anyway, background image consumes a lot of processor power in Java or at least in FSXP as I see. With KLGA, event with the option Show background images turned off, the performance was bad :(

rf360m said:
Interesting idea. I think there may be an option for a 'nice' name in the xml for these items. I'll have to check to make sure though.

Do you mean only for those items that have GUIDs, such as towers, jetways, scenery, etc, or for all items?
Click to expand...
For a start I would prefer only:
- my own objects like terminals, hangars etc, that I have created in gmax/FSDS
- maybe apron lights
- and some other similar objects that do not have a name (like taxiways, runways, parkings) so I can distingusih which object should I click and correct.

Many thanks and best regards,
 
Gorchi said:
I don't think so but I would include a link to the file as a comment so it won't mess up with BGLCOMP.


Argh, I really do hate this folder!!! It is so deeply burried somewhere in the system and since I have Total Commander allready opened in the same folder as source of my project, I would expect it there. Also I do backup project folders and don't mess with those Documents&Settings folder...
Click to expand...

we'll look at the posibilities of using comments to save the image information.

In pixels it is approx 6500x6500 pix, 12MB JPG file. I guess this is too much :) Anyway, background image consumes a lot of processor power in Java or at least in FSXP as I see. With KLGA, event with the option Show background images turned off, the performance was bad :(
Click to expand...

12MB, that is very big! What dpi is the image? The biggest image I have used is 1Mb and that was 3200x2400, so your 6500x6500 image shouldn't be more than 4MB-6MB. Still that's a very large image. I'd suggest either scaling it down, or splitting it into multiple images.

The performance of KGLA for me with images turned off is the same as if I didn't have any images loaded at all. Out of curiosity what are your computer specs? I am testing on a P4 @ 3.2Ghz with 2 gigs of ram, which I would consider an average computer now.

For a start I would prefer only:
- my own objects like terminals, hangars etc, that I have created in gmax/FSDS
- maybe apron lights
- and some other similar objects that do not have a name (like taxiways, runways, parkings) so I can distingusih which object should I click and correct.
Click to expand...

We could do terminal, hangers, other custom scenery objects.

I'm not sure how you would label an apron edge light.

We could include a comment for the taxiway name.

-Russell
 
Hi Rusell!

Yes, this is is the image from orthophoto image of larger area around LJLJ; the TIFF itself has 70+ MB, LZW coded. I extracted the necessary part and saved it in JPG. Haven't downgraded DPI yet but definitely I'll do it, otherwise I'll split the image into few parts :)

Regarding my comp. It is Athlon XP 3200 64, 1GB Kingston RAM, Windows XP Pro, 2x HDD (120 GB + 200GB), GeForce 6600GT. I plan to change around christmas but is quite nice for FS2004 (16 FPS around EDDM from GA2 with moderate traffic), flying in FS X SP1 around the default airports is no problem with 18+ FPS.

Best regards,
 
ugo1 said:
I want link a Jvile's post about background image

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38141&postcount=16

so all people are aware what mean change an airport location

Ugo
Click to expand...

So I believe this is it. It seems by Jim's post we should not mess with runways headings and airport position change.:confused:

However let me tell you about my only experience with images: I tried to set SVBC which is a medium commercial/GA airport with a small amount of traffic.

The resulting graphics immediately told me I had to change the airport position, required a length adjustment of the runways (confirmed by World Aero Data) and of course a lot of work with taxiways and aprons. At the end of the session, I left the work unfinished.
This morning when I loaded the airport the image was not there, so I tried to reload the image by using again the FSXPlanner site Google map utility (as I did the previous day). If the coordinates were right, the image should load in the same position it did the day before.
The utility must have given to me slightly different coordinates, as the airport was displaced about a 100 mt vs the new image.

Then I tried to figure out how the images are saved (which is well explained in this thread). In my settings app folder the backgroundImages.xml file showed this when opened:


The XML page cannot be displayed
Cannot view XML input using style sheet. Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The system cannot locate the resource specified. Error processing resource 'background-images.dtd'. Error processing resou...

<!DOCTYPE Airports SYSTEM "background-images.dtd">



That maybe a bug or a bad setting from my site. The background-images.dtd file is actually located inside the dtd folder of my FSXPlanner folder (currently located at my desktop).

The problem goes further because if the coordinates were right the new image should have loaded in the same position of last night. I am using 800x600 images.

However, I insist in asking if Jim Vile's post is telling us that we only can change aprons, taxiways and scenery details? And we can't displace the airport or change runways headings?:confused:

Jorge
 
Russell,

As of the runways and airport I don't have a clue of where did Microsoft get the airport data. I am "young" on all this about afcad's, but the only airports I have checked are far from accurate, related with position, runway headings and lengths.

Going further on this, I think that the image will be needed at least to check taxiways, aprons and other items.

But considering we should not move the aiport as per what has been explained by Jim Vile, the image should be allowed to be moved.
So, the operations would be: load the image (from your site google map utility), fine adjust it (move it) as needed and finally lock it. And a working "save" function that associates the image position with the airport position established in its XML.

Jorge
 
jalsina said:
Then I tried to figure out how the images are saved (which is well explained in this thread). In my settings app folder the backgroundImages.xml file showed this when opened:


The XML page cannot be displayed
Cannot view XML input using style sheet. Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The system cannot locate the resource specified. Error processing resource 'background-images.dtd'. Error processing resou...

<!DOCTYPE Airports SYSTEM "background-images.dtd">



That maybe a bug or a bad setting from my site. The background-images.dtd file is actually located inside the dtd folder of my FSXPlanner folder (currently located at my desktop).

The problem goes further because if the coordinates were right the new image should have loaded in the same position of last night. I am using 800x600 images.
Click to expand...

I am not sure why the image would not be able to be loaded again. Did you move the image to a different folder? The image needs to be in the same folder as when you originally opened it from within FSX Planner, or within the FSX Planner folder.

You can open the backgroundImages.xml file using wordpad. That works very well and it doesn't require the dtd file to be available.

We have modified how the background images are saved in the next release. There will be an option to use the current method, or to save them as a comment within the airport.xml file.

However, I insist in asking if Jim Vile's post is telling us that we only can change aprons, taxiways and scenery details? And we can't displace the airport or change runways headings?:confused:
Click to expand...

I am not an expert on this, but my understanding is that moving the runways could cause errors with navigation and possibly with other airports. However, if you are not planning on distributing your airports to others, and are not worried about possible navigation errors then I don't see why you can't move the runway.

-Russell
 
jalsina said:
But considering we should not move the aiport as per what has been explained by Jim Vile, the image should be allowed to be moved.
So, the operations would be: load the image (from your site google map utility), fine adjust it (move it) as needed and finally lock it. And a working "save" function that associates the image position with the airport position established in its XML.

Jorge
Click to expand...

Movable background images are coming. Not in the next release, but in one after that.

However, we do have a different long awaited feature coming in the next release. :)

-Russell
 
rf360m said:
I am not sure why the image would not be able to be loaded again. Did you move the image to a different folder? The image needs to be in the same folder as when you originally opened it from within FSX Planner, or within the FSX Planner folder.
Click to expand...

I place the images in the FSXPlanner folder. I did not move it later.

You can open the backgroundImages.xml file using wordpad. That works very well and it doesn't require the dtd file to be available.
Click to expand...

Actually I can open an XML with the IExplorer. I tried also to open it with the Microsoft XML notepad. It appears as corrupt.

What I have not tried is deleting the bad XML to see if XLSPlanner creates a new one.

We have modified how the background images are saved in the next release. There will be an option to use the current method, or to save them as a comment within the airport.xml file.
Click to expand...

Good


I am not an expert on this, but my understanding is that moving the runways could cause errors with navigation and possibly with other airports. However, if you are not planning on distributing your airports to others, and are not worried about possible navigation errors then I don't see why you can't move the runway.

-Russell
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that if Jim Vile tell so, there is not much we can do for the moment.

Let me mention that while I was waiting for your answer, I tried another method.
I wrote down the default airport coordinates. I changed the airport position to match FSXPlanner graphics to the background image as much as possible. I worked in my modifications.
Once the main job was done (for which I needed the image) I moved the airport again to the default position. I deleted the image. But, I haven't tried how well it worked yet.

Jorge
 
Hi, Russell

I guess the next FSX Planner's version will connect to FSX.

Is that the surprise?

Regards,

José
 
Integrate the Web Link to create Background Tiles?

Hi Russell,

The weblink you provided is very good- especially as my Google Earth is often tilted or rotated (N not up)

Would it be possible to link out of FSX Planner to the page, say using the airport reference long/lat, then for the page to link back to the background image dialog (including "pasting" the Long and lat figures in to the correct FSX Planner dialog?)

Not withstanding the potential problems with moving airports (and I haven't read Jviles post) this would make the association of the image relatively ( ?ridiculously) easy.

If (at a later stage) you could then drag/stretch/rotate/skew the image (or similar) in FSXP to realign it with the "real" FSX world (sounds complicated even as I propose it) then the problem of Google Earth's variable accuracy would be overcome.
 
Last edited:
hcornea said:
Hi Russell,

The weblink you provided is very good- especially as my Google Earth is often tilted or rotated (N not up)

Would it be possible to link out of FSX Planner to the page, say using the airport reference long/lat, then for the page to link back to the background image dialog (including "pasting" the Long and lat figures in to the correct FSX Planner dialog?)

Not withstanding the potential problems with moving airports (and I haven't read Jviles post) this would make the association of the image relatively ( ?ridiculously) easy.

If (at a later stage) you could then drag/stretch/rotate/skew the image (or similar) in FSXP to realign it with the "real" FSX world (sounds complicated even as I propose it) then the problem of Google Earth's variable accuracy would be overcome.
Click to expand...


The linking idea is very good - we'll look into implementing that in some form.

We are also looking at the ability to scale an image and to drag it around so that if the airport is not placed exactly correctly, you don't have to move it to have the background image match up.

-Russell
 
Hi, Russell

rf360m said:
The linking idea is very good - we'll look into implementing that in some form.

We are also looking at the ability to scale an image and to drag it around so that if the airport is not placed exactly correctly, you don't have to move it to have the background image match up.

-Russell
Click to expand...

Do you want to shrink or stretch the terrain image to accomodate the runway length?

Of course, that's an idea that will never work.

Regards,

José
 
To continue with the theme. I am unable to import the background image in any way in FSX Planner. I used Global Mapper together with our national agency for terrestrial research to determine coordinates of the corners of the image. I have firstly tried to import the image with size approx 6000x6000pix, then I reduced it with Photoshop to something like 3000x3000 but the image doesn't come into the FSXP. Okay, this image covers whole LJLJ airport, metadata as Global Mapper says are:
Code: 
FILENAME=E:\FLIGHTSIM.DES\SLIKE\SLOVENIJA-LETALIŠČA\LJUBLJANA\ORTOFOTO\BRNIK_CELOTA2006A.JPG
DESCRIPTION=BRNIK_CELOTA2006A.JPG
UPPER LEFT X=14.43094175
UPPER LEFT Y=46.24206206
LOWER RIGHT X=14.49372696
LOWER RIGHT Y=46.20048799
WEST LONGITUDE=14.426210° E
NORTH LATITUDE=46.241728° N
EAST LONGITUDE=14.488990° E
SOUTH LATITUDE=46.200156° N
NUM COLUMNS=6803
NUM ROWS=6451
PIXEL WIDTH=0.00001 arc degrees
PIXEL HEIGHT=0.00001 arc degrees

Okay, then I divided the image into 4 approximately the same rectangles and I have tried to import one of the rectangles into FSXP. Still no success, so I reduced the image size to 1500x1422 pix, Global Mapper says:
Code: 
FILENAME=E:\FS SLOVENIJA 2007\SCENERY\LJUBLJANA2007\ORTOFOTO_2006A.JPG
DESCRIPTION=ORTOFOTO_2006A.JPG
UPPER LEFT X=14.43117778
UPPER LEFT Y=46.23975191
LOWER RIGHT X=14.46228871
LOWER RIGHT Y=46.22130082
WEST LONGITUDE=14.435909° E
NORTH LATITUDE=46.240089° N
EAST LONGITUDE=14.467026° E
SOUTH LATITUDE=46.221634° N
NUM COLUMNS=3402
NUM ROWS=3226
PIXEL WIDTH=0.00001 arc degrees
PIXEL HEIGHT=0.00001 arc degrees
Num columns and num rows are here before reducing the image(s). Anyway, this final and small rectangle is about 700kb long JPG file and with dimensions of 1500x1422pix. Any ideas? Once I thought I've finally successfully imported the image but it was only black.
Btw, is there a possibility that the dialog box for searching the images would save its folder from where it was last started?

Best regards,
 
Now it seems I have succeded with inserting small background image :) But!!! On the bigger zoom it looks okay, as soon as the airport is is on a default zoom, then background is slightly rotated and becomes unusable :( Is this a (known) bug ?:confused:
 
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