"Calling the Server" Hallow!!! are you there??? Mayday!! Mayday!!!

[solid]

Our fellow developer Khaos 56 has a fine site and in it he has a very interesting page where he describes the trend of today´s games to have their software "talk" to the server out there in the rims of virtual space or boondocks or have an account on an Internet based server before it does its dance for you or anything else. I thing this is an outrage to say the least. As he points out, what when the server is down?, what if the server gets hacked?? (Steam was hacked a few weeks ago, an as a user I had to change all my stuff and those with their credit cards in their server should have scratch them!! and cross their fingers). This practice is getting very popular it seems and on our side of the court, the super duper scooper Flight most likely will be in this herd......I don´t like it at all and really thing it is an outrage in other words users are getting "trampled by these server side buggers"....what do you thing?.............I hate the whole contraption!!!

Read Khaos article in his fine site: http://www.fsupgrade.com/wide/rmb_w.html

 

[WarpD]

It's all about piracy.

No one cares enough about piracy to do a thing about it, except those who are losing income from it. Piracy laws are lame (ineffective), and certain countries actually promote piracy.

 

[solid]

It seems no one cares about this....OK.

 

[mgh]

No one is compelled to sign up to any of these sites.

What hardware (of all types) guarantees that spares will be available 5 to 10 years in the future. None as far as I'm aware.

 

[solid]

No one is compelled to sign up to any of these sites.

What hardware (of all types) guarantees that spares will be available 5 to 10 years in the future. None as far as I'm aware.

I was talking about the " philosophy " of the thing man!!..if the trend continues you will be "forced" if you want to play!!! and even fly your " new" sim.........Flight seems it´s going that way....

 

[hcornea]

" Society is to blame "

As pointed out, this is to do with controlling access to content.

If the need for validation and digital signing of content is built into the game engine, it is harder to "crack" and distribute illegally.

If users would buy what they wanted, and simply not use what they weren't prepared to purchase, it wouldn't be necessary.

But people won't do this, and the internet is almost like the aftermath of the London riots, where people just loot ............. because they can.

This is a response to something of society's own making ... so now, they can sit back and ponder the inconvenience.

PITA being online. Yes. Better able to regulate addon and other content. Absolutely.

How much easier life would be if you could just assume everyone was ethical and honest.

 

[khaos_56k]

Wow... Some one actually visited my website and read my rant, which I created and posted shortly after an email exchange with a CodeMasters representative. Thanks for that Solid! Knowing at least one person is visiting my site, I better start paying more attention to it!

I can definitely understand a developer trying to protect their product. What I don't like is the slow, but sure, move towards Internet-only accessible software. It's a fantastic idea BUT... what if, much like my Tomb Raider I game, I decide five or ten years in the future to reinstall and play it but it requires a remote server to acquire permission, let alone a mandatory account, to install it and "activate" my offline profile... much like the rally racing and combat games I have. How far fetched is it to foresee having to "pay to play" even though I own a legal copy of the game?

And then there's the security issue. For whatever reason there are a multitude of people out there who's sole purpose seems to be to disrupt and steal by accessing these supposedly secure servers. That makes me nervous. I just hate the thought of unplugging just to protect myself...

If everyone "played by the rules", this sort of thing wouldn't bother me but too many ifs... too many "forced" online-socializing... I guess I'm just an "old gamer" whose opposed to technological change.

 

[mgh]

You seem to expect a risk free world that doesn't exist. If you buy anything today, the supplier can go out of business tomorrow leaving you on your own - never mind in 5 or 10 years.

 

[solid]

Steam was hacked about three weeks ago. I have bought there around 20 racing games and a train sim for my grandson who is the one who mostly uses my computer for gaming, I do FSX and some games....Many of the games went Kaput!!! am still jumping loops to re-install them, for any reason two or three (Fuel, Dirt2 among them) are giving hell every time I try to load them and the super duper train sim takes about 10 times for me to beg it to load...something sure happened alright. I never give out my cards so I had no worries about that!! but Steam said---" No problema with cards guys!!!!!--but you should delete the one you have with them!!!!..I agree that protection for piracy is a must, but this "technological" hassle is a pain in $%%%^^^&* for users.....I am also a very old gamer alright like khaos_56k says, what a pain!!!!..maybe its time to quit( I might just start writing Books and make money and forget all this Technology!!!_

 

[solid]

You seem to expect a risk free world that doesn't exist. If you buy anything today, the supplier can go out of business tomorrow leaving you on your own - never mind in 5 or 10 years.

I for one expect something better on what this is about...I guess everyone knows the world we live in today is the rats nest of the solar system....

 

[khaos_56k]

You seem to expect a risk free world that doesn't exist. If you buy anything today, the supplier can go out of business tomorrow leaving you on your own - never mind in 5 or 10 years.

You've made my point...

If a developer/supplier provides a game that requires a remote server, like "Dirt2" or "COD:MW3", to install and maintain a profile of your progress, then if they no longer exist in the future when you decide to reinstall the game... you're screwed. NOT something I am willing to accept no matter how addicted I am to a specific game or genre.

And as far as a "risk free" world. That has never existed BUT... if I pay $30+ for a particular application, addon or game I expect it to work as advertised with the exception of hardware evolution (aka the demise of 3DFX) and without relying on anything other than my PC and an Internet connection.

 

[mgh]

You've made my point...

If a developer/supplier provides a game that requires a remote server, like "Dirt2" or "COD:MW3", to install and maintain a profile of your progress, then if they no longer exist in the future when you decide to reinstall the game... you're screwed. NOT something I am willing to accept no matter how addicted I am to a specific game or genre.

And as far as a "risk free" world. That has never existed BUT... if I pay $30+ for a particular application, addon or game I expect it to work as advertised with the exception of hardware evolution (aka the demise of 3DFX) and without relying on anything other than my PC and an Internet connection.

Then you'll you to stay with applications that don't require access to a remote server because no one can guarantee that it will even be there tomorrow.

 

[Heretic]

How much easier life would be if you could just assume everyone was ethical and honest.

How boring...


Online clients for gaming have more than one purpose. They connect people (buddy lists), make updating easier, supply a sales plaform (like Steam does) and provide a method for copy protection. Oh, and they (ideally) save game makers money for printing DVD disks.
But you can hardly call them a method to terrorize people. Server outages happen (error probability just can't be 0) and the more exposed you are to the public eye (Steam, Sony), the more vulnerable you are to criminal acts (no one cared about hacking Impulse, apparently).

As for piracy, I think this topic has been discussed to death, revived, beheaded, revived again, beheaded again, revived yet again, et cetera...

 

[bobbyjack]

I am an "old guy", and I am not at all opposed to change. But I am opposed to change that limits me. The move of more and more things to the cloud is disturbing to me. Not because it isn't convienent(it is very much so) but because it is so dangerous and unreliable. I do a ton of things online, but I have to put the thickest armour I can find on my computer and them hope it, my computer and the internet all work together. No AV is fool-proof, no computer is perfect, and the internet...

I once bought a racing game that I had to register with Steam. At one point my internet was down for a while. I couldn't even open the racing game. I dumped it and Steam.

Oh, and I found a better game for free later.

Bob

 

[khaos_56k]

Then you'll you to stay with applications that don't require access to a remote server because no one can guarantee that it will even be there tomorrow.

Yeah, mgh, I guess I'll have to turn my attention to games like Solitaire because the genres I enjoy are entirely going the way of the remote server...

That's OK. I'm perfectly happy with my FS9 overflowing with addons and multitudes of tweaks. Besides, I already have a huge number of "offline games" but the major draw for me to the latest and greatest is that they are so phenomenal visually and ultra-realistic!

Regardless, things are not going to revert back to what I want and I'm comfortable with that. I've accepted that the way of the gaming majority is going to remain with these kinds of remote servers.

...Online clients for gaming have more than one purpose. They connect people (buddy lists), make updating easier, supply a sales plaform (like Steam does) and provide a method for copy protection. Oh, and they (ideally) save game makers money for printing DVD disks.
But you can hardly call them a method to terrorize people. Server outages happen...

But, Heretic, I don't desire to socialize with the multitudes of strangers because in my past the majority of those socialites are not worth the time and effort it takes to tolerate their ridiculously immature mentality. This is not to infer I am some sort of poster-boy for maturity, I just like to game a certain way (as realistic as possible) and I don't "cheat" just because I'm aware of flaws, or I'm bored because I've already beaten the game 100 times... etc... So, a "buddy-list" guy I am not.

Easier updating...? It truly doesn't take me an excessive amount of time to locate, download and apply patches and updates when I choose. Most of the time the patches and updates deal with menial issues that I never seem to experience...

A sales platform? I don't need another venue for more advertisements. I bought their game already... I visit the multitudes of websites to see the latest and greatest... I read various forums posts expressing views of new games... I don't want anymore sales pitches.

We can beat this dead horse post after post after post... It's obvious there is a majority of people who LOVE this way of gaming and socializing. They will passionately utilize it to its full potential and beg for more. Eventually people like me will be forced into that kind of world... someway... for some reason... because it is the way everything eventually evolves.

I, personally, have vowed to not purchase another game or sim because I am opposed to the whole idea of a required remote server. That's my choice and I'm fine with it. I have a gaming rig with 90+ "offline" games and sims installed so my entertainment appetite has plenty to sink it's teeth into for at least a few years...

 

[n4gix]

...I don't desire to socialize with the multitudes of strangers because in my past the majority of those socialites are not worth the time and effort it takes to tolerate their ridiculously immature mentality.

I'm not really all that interested in socializing myself. There's a reason I live alone and since pretty much retiring from active ministry don't even leave the house all that much...

I don't fly "online" for one of two reasons. Either there's the immature crowd you've cited above, or the opposite extreme: the excessively anal-retentive who simply cannot tolerate anything but perfect procedures...

 

[khaos_56k]

...or the opposite extreme: the excessively anal-retentive who simply cannot tolerate anything but perfect procedures...

I've definitely run into that a few times and have been called that by my wingmen when I whine about them cutting me off when I'm on final for the umpteenth time...

I'm a virtual pilot, a virtual engineer, a virtual golfer, a virtual soldier, a virtual adventurer, a virtual trucker, a virtual race car driver, a virtual sailor, and a virtual "scare the pants off you" paranormal special forces member (I think I've got all my genres). Obviously the key word is VIRTUAL. If the multitudes of online socializing gamers could interact and play with a level of fairness and sprinkle it with more realistic views on whatever the game is at hand, NOT full-tilt realism, I could probably get along with them.

In the days of CFS, during multiplayer head-to-head sessions, it was an unwritten rule that since the aircraft start flying towards one another, we "veterans" would make one pass... then the fight was on. More and more often there were "children, for the lack of a better word, that would unleash an insane barrage of munitions during that first pass which resulted in instant death. Banning and ignoring various players seemed to not affect the invasion of this kind of "mentality"...

I've even attempted to play a few online first-person-shooters in my past. It's hard to find enjoyment when you get killed and the other players target you just as you spawn back into the fray and continue to kill you repeated before you can even move...

Or how about trying to race online... It seems there are a majority that are either bored or find no other enjoyment in the game than to be a constant antagonist. Let's race! "Rubbing" and crashes happen... it's all apart of the game, as in real life. But if your goal is just to disrupt the game with no desire to actually race... No thank you!

I guess I'm hoping for a bit of "respect" and "decency" among online gamers that I've never experienced except in the distant past... I really don't know any other good way to express it. I game for entertainment and when it becomes an aggravation, the PC or the session is shutdown! So with all of that plus the whole remote server issue... My multiplayer and online socializing are limited, by choice.

I find it frustrating to witness so much of the virtual world I enjoy, because the real world is becoming more and more sucky, evolving into an online-only environment basically forcing social interaction that I'm not desiring. I don't approve of additional software being loaded on my PC for advertisements, updates, and sales, not overlooking the real possibility of tracking your online habits and info, but it seems these are a requirement since the games won't run correctly without that software installed. And as I tell all of my "clients", people I repair PCs and laptops for, as individuals we are not the primary target of any Cracker or group of Crackers. We are ultimately the victims because our financial and personal data is the target through those entities that store it for our "convenience" and "right to access"... and now because piracy is a problem that is growing exponentially.

I want the opposite of Battlefield 3... Awesome offline game play and storyline with the option to connect online with friends and fellow gamers.

 

[khaos_56k]

...I once bought a racing game that I had to register with Steam. At one point my internet was down for a while. I couldn't even open the racing game. I dumped it and Steam...

Another one of my points proven...

You (we) bought the game, why are you (we) forced to rely on a remote server just to play it?

And what happens if you are so lucky to have your account hacked and you're locked out of your account? Fun... fun... FUN!!

 

[solid]

Another one of my points proven...

You (we) bought the game, why are you (we) forced to rely on a remote server just to play it?

And what happens if you are so lucky to have your account hacked and you're locked out of your account? Fun... fun... FUN!!

Like you said above, this is like "beating a dead horse". Its the "age", kids and semi-adults today just bite the worms thrown at them and swallow(some adults still do too)...they chat while driving, chat while walking to the pool, chat destroying their grammar and language and now will follow the pied piper of Server served games et all......it´s the time for it and many a "snake oil cure all doctor knows it". The funny thing is that they will put a fight for it and seek more....anyways, thanks all for your opinion on the subject, the future will tell who gets the better part of the "new cake full of worms".....