Copyright

[Simon853]

The sad truth is that litigation has become an industry in itself..

I think back to a time twenty years ago when as a teenager I wrote to BAE asking if they had any drawings of the EAP (a fighter technology prototype similar looking to the Typhoon) because I wanted to build an R/C model. Instead of the legal rebuff I'd likely get these days, they sent me *masses* of desgin drawings, publicity materials, photos, cut-aways, etc. and a very nice hand-written letter full of enthusiam for my own enthusiam!

I looked at a particular aircraft manufacturers website not too long ago and somewhere within the "Contact Us" page there were words to the effect of 'we're aware people build models of our products. Please do not contact us requesting information, we don't want to talk to you.'

Si

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Hi Si.

That is a sad truth that enthusiasm and support fueled by goodwill and engineers, has now become corporate paranoia and threats fueled by greed and controlled by lawyers.

Dick

 

[n4gix]

As an addendum to my above mentioned Boeing document, what is especially annoying is that the proximate cause for Boeing's actions stems from a lawsuit brought by parents who's son nearly choked to death on an engine nacelle from a Revell 747 plastic model...

Yep, you read that right, the parent's tried to sue Boeing, not Revell!

 

[rhumbaflappy]

The root of the evil is the parent's lawyers tried to sue Boeing. We become the beneficiaries of Boeing's paranoia, as a result. And in turn, we become paranoid of corporations turning on us as we develop our hobby or small business.

Dick

 

[arno]

Hi,

Exactly. And I suspect some posters would have a completely different opinion if it had been the case where a FS developer had contracted with a 3rd party to develop a mesh for it and the 3rd party then claimed it had copyright in the mesh.

I think that is a quite common situation in the FS world. I have heard of cases where the models are owned by the designer and not by the company publishing the addon. So that means the developer can take them to another publisher later on if he wants. The same can apply with subcontractors of course. It all depends on the agreement made.

 

[mgh]

Hi,



I think that is a quite common situation in the FS world. I have heard of cases where the models are owned by the designer and not by the company publishing the addon. So that means the developer can take them to another publisher later on if he wants. The same can apply with subcontractors of course. It all depends on the agreement made.

That is true but doesn't affect the question of what can or can't be copyrighted.

Incidentally, the FSX credits say it's produced under licence from Boeing and Red Bull. That's presumably because inter alia Boeing's House Livery is used on a 747 and Red Bull's on an Extra.

 

[dmaher]

Re. watermarking 3D meshes for copyright purposes.

We describe a robust watermarking scheme suitable for proving
ownership claims on triangle meshes representing surfaces in 3D.
The explosive growth of the Web has led to a blossoming interest
in the electronic publication of various media. Unfortunately, many
owners of digital materials, such as images, video, audio, text, and
3D models, are reluctant to distribute their documents on the Web
or other networked environment, because the ease of duplicating
digital material facilitates copyright violation. Digital watermarks
provide a mechanism for copyright protection of digital media by
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/proj/meshwm
allowing people to permanently mark their documents and thereby
prove claims of authenticity or ownership.

Copyright categories are very broad…
Mesh models are written in high-level programming languages...
therefore best classified as programs...
which are best classified as literature...that's my take.
...but never ask an artist for legal advice.

 

[mgh]

The software to do that is commercially available here as MeshMark. It's only of use if the mesh is copyrightable.

 

[dmaher]

It's only of use if the mesh is copyrightable.

Exactly...
Applications
3D graphics models
3D animation character models
3D games
3D terrain models for geographic information systems

 

[mgh]

Exactly...
Applications
3D graphics models
3D animation character models
3D games
3D terrain models for geographic information systems

As long as they have the necessary originality.

 

[dmaher]

It can be argued, as the Utah court did and as we commented to start, that a digital scan is not creative or interpretive. It is a statement of fact so to speak…like a clinical photo.The data is not interpretive or creative. The points are where they are because that is where they have been located on the original object…the work of the original creator. Like a photo without artistry.

But hand-built meshes are like paintings, there is tremendous interpretation, creative skill, and artistry. The data is not fact, it is a molders interpretation. Fair to say not every court will agree where to draw the line, and not every model is an identical case. There is originality and no two of one subject will be the same.

 

[n4gix]

The software to do that is commercially available here as MeshMark. It's only of use if the mesh is copyrightable.

Yikes! Two-thousand Euros? I'll stick with my manual mesh watermarking process...

 

[mgh]

dmaher

My point was that copyright protection is limited and not as strong as is often thought. As another example, in the US a "useful article" cannot be copyright. It may be protected under patent law.

n4gix

My eyes watered too!

 

[hcornea]

EUR2000

Yep, I'd want it to make the mesh for that.

Funny how this isn't incorporated into Max in some way already (or is it? he wonders)

 

[dmaher]

dmaher

My point was that copyright protection is limited and not as strong as is often thought. As another example, in the US a "useful article" cannot be copyright.

...Agreed and it's a good point.

 

[solid]

The sad truth is that litigation has become an industry in itself..

I think back to a time twenty years ago when as a teenager I wrote to BAE asking if they had any drawings of the EAP (a fighter technology prototype similar looking to the Typhoon) because I wanted to build an R/C model. Instead of the legal rebuff I'd likely get these days, they sent me *masses* of desgin drawings, publicity materials, photos, cut-aways, etc. and a very nice hand-written letter full of enthusiam for my own enthusiam!

I looked at a particular aircraft manufacturers website not too long ago and somewhere within the "Contact Us" page there were words to the effect of 'we're aware people build models of our products. Please do not contact us requesting information, we don't want to talk to you.'

Si

It´s the awful times we are living today my friend. I like to read "Real Commercial Pilots Forums" and it is actually very scary what they write!!! the world today is run by greed at extremes which gives us a peek of how ugly it will be for our grandchildren.....BUT, there are still great groups today, not many. I build solid wood models and it´s incredible how cooperative people are at the Smithsonian Air Museum in Washington D.C.. I had a guy search for a B-18 Plan in hangars they have of unclassified documents for three months..he found it and sent it to me free of any charge!!!! great people there!!!