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Decrease polygon / edges / lines.

Peter Hornfeck said:
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/decrease-polygon-edges-lines.434139/#post-716644


Made some experiments with Sketchup. Would be interesting to read your opinion its wrong or not.

1. If I draw a rounded object in SU I choose the tool, then enter the number of corners in the field where I can enter length or other things. If it's a small object, I use 5 or 8 corners and for bigger objects maybe up to 24. Best way is to use a number which can be divided by 4.

2. With SU 2015 I can do this with the N-Side Polygon tool.

3. I select the rounded objects and set soften edges to zero.

4. For texturing I use the way Austin Sass did it. One face textured, than making a component and place it around the center with duplicate. Much easier than to get a texture on a round object with projection.

5. For not textured faces I set the style to RED outside and Blue inside. This way I can see which faces are outside of a object. It would make much trouble with transparency if there is the wrong side outside.

6. Before exporting a 3D Model I use the free cleanup plugin, but not with merge faces with same UV texture option.

7. I check all my not visible faces have NO textures. I found many Add-on airports with textured not visible parts.

Now the question was, is there a difference between exporting a model with components or not?

Yes there is:

A) Exporting without cleanup is the worst.
B) Exporting with components file size: 7.68 MB
C) Exporting without components, all groups exploded: 12.94 MB

The exported 3D Model is much bigger. And what happens in MCX?

Importing the 7.68 MB File resulting in 54350 texture vertices in MCX
Importing the 12.94 MB File resulting in 59269 texture vertices in MCX

The next trap. Because a roof structure was very tiny, I chose colors in Sketchup for this.
With MCX now I get 7 draw-calls more for this colors. After reducing draw-calls I've got one texture more and get rid of all the draw-calls.

But now the texture vertices are increased. In case of the 7.68 MB file more than 72000 and in the 12.94 MB file more than 82000 texture vertices. And I couldn't export to FS9 files.

My conclusions

I do not explode the components in Sketchup before exporting! This would increase the texture vertices in MCX, which would be a limitation if you export a FS9 scenery. And if I explode the components with colors, it makes the situation much more worse.

Now I'm not sure what I should do. Divide the Terminal in two objects (much work) or use the object with the colors and 7 draw-calls more?
Click to expand...

Hi Peter:

Thanks for sharing your observations, and the results of your tests, as this may prove quite helpful to expanding the knowledge base on such 'under-documented' optional 3D modeling methods for the FS development community ! :)


I believe that Arno will likely have a special interest in this info, and that perhaps he can further advise us on how to create one's 3D model so that 'Smoothing Groups' and 'Triangulated Sub-groups' with 'Soften Co-planar' attributes ...may be properly retained during both import and export by ModelConverterX (aka "MCX").



Perhaps Arno can also advise us regarding the issues you described above with:

* differing texture vertex counts (aka "T-Verts") when Groups / Components / Sketchup default "Colors" are used

* how best to export such a resulting larger 3D model for FS9 ...and/or FSX / P3D. ;)


Peter Hornfeck said:
4. For texturing I use the way Austin Sass did it. One face textured, than making a component and place it around the center with duplicate. Much easier than to get a texture on a round object with projection.
Click to expand...

PS: IIUC, you are referring to these video tutorials ? :scratchch:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLxXT4WGw3IjpLaMhfzRPAQ

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sass-Creations/216288515187002


GaryGB
 
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Somebody in an earlier thread suggested it would be better to use groups instead of components but I would advise against it as that would mean that you would have to change things in every separate group when you make some changes to one group. Unless there is an another advantage of groups instead of components?
(And do not use colors but if you do than make a texture sheet with all the colors on it and then change the color to texture. It had been said before that each color provokes another draw call. But I suppose that is old news?)

PS:Bumped once more Gary:)?
PS2: What works to reduce drawcalls and triangles is to seperate by 1cm (a fraction of an inch) all so called welded polygons. Do not join them like it has been warned about by 'I-do-not-remember-who-and-can-not-find-it-back-either'.
 
robystar said:
PS: Bumped once more Gary:)?
Click to expand...

Indeed; if this keeps up, we might need a "Bump-Map" to find our way around this on-going thread ! :D

robystar said:
Somebody in an earlier thread suggested it would be better to use groups instead of components but I would advise against it as that would mean that you would have to change things in every separate group when you make some changes to one group. Unless there is an another advantage of groups instead of components?
(And do not use colors but if you do than make a texture sheet with all the colors on it and then change the color to texture. It had been said before that each color provokes another draw call. But I suppose that is old news?)

PS2: What works to reduce draw-calls and triangles is to separate by 1cm (a fraction of an inch) all so called welded polygons. Do not join them like it has been warned about by 'I-do-not-remember-who-and-can-not-find-it-back-either'.
Click to expand...


FYI: Some additional information about welding vertices and "smoothing" in 3D models:

http://forums.sketchup.com/t/non-welded-vertices-what/6923

http://www.ronenbekerman.com/9-sketchup-tips-for-better-3d-modeling-workflow/

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/suppo...697BAC48-F5F7-4B5B-9E98-DF979887AEA6-htm.html


Interestingly, this latter linked thread suggests that (in Blender):

"Smooth groups are just separated vertices" :scratchch

http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/idtech/what-are-smooth-groups-and-mesh-smoothing-on-models.php


[EDITED]

3DSMAX methodology for "smoothing" seems to require welding of vertices for edges of adjacent faces:

"Weld

Turns on the Weld Vertices function. In most cases, you should leave this box turned on because un-welded objects can't be unified or smoothed."

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/suppo...49B05940-48F7-4118-815C-73190692FFEC-htm.html


See also:

http://www.3dmax-tutorials.com/Smoothing_Groups__Glossary_.html

http://knowledge.autodesk.com/suppo...239E3C58-BBC5-4DFB-9037-B595A1188DC8-htm.html

http://www.3dmax-tutorials.com/Editable_Poly_Polygon_Element_.html

https://forums.unrealengine.com/archive/index.php/t-50647.html

http://www.chrisalbeluhn.com/Normal_Map_Tutorial.html



This thread post also states that vertex welding is required for "smoothing":

"Smooth groups require solid, connected geometry."

http://gtaforums.com/topic/446267-how-to-smooth-cars-and-other-models-in-3ds-max/


...And states something rather intriguing regarding 3D model geometry 'statistics':

"...you need to detach in 3dsmax, just like zmodeler. The reason being, is that max creates a new normal for each vertex in a smooth group. Every vertex has as many normals, as the number of smooth groups it belongs too. In GTA (3,VC,SA,IV, and virtually every other 3d game running through directx!) there is only one normal per vertex. Detaching separates the mesh and creates duplicate vertices - with only one normal - where necessary, thus preserving your lighting info, at the expense of extra geometry."


Some related info on DirectX, shading, and triangulation of faces:

Face and Vertex Normal Vectors (Direct3D 9)

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/bb173380(v=vs.85).aspx


Soften Edges dialog box

http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/114940

http://web.archive.org/web/20151025192543/http://help.sketchup.com/en/article/114940


Modeling with Quads or Triangles - What Should I Use?

http://blog.digitaltutors.com/modeling-with-quads-or-triangles/


Key 3D Modeling Terminology

http://blog.digitaltutors.com/basic-3d-modeling-terminology/



PS: However, since MDLs for aircraft and scenery objects both use triangulated geometry and are both "SimObjects" in MSFS FSX / P3D, IMHO, one might reasonably expect to be able to implement via the SDK compilers, "smoothing groups" for scenery objects ...just as one might do for aircraft

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/shading-and-smoothing-issues.433954/#post-711593

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/so-why-is-this-happening.433916/

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/search/1044130/?q=smoothing&t=post&o=date

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB
 
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Hello...

I, personally, don't use components or groups at all, unless there is a specific extension/plug-in that requires it to be made as such,... as we have seen by Peter's information.

Concerning the OP's request,... the best option would to make maybe 3 (if different sizes are needed) and place them as in library objects. But,.. in thinking, about this,... maybe only 1 can be within a library,...and maybe sunken within the elevation is possible To give smaller version of the object.

What I have done in the past, is make the circular objects 5 or 6 sided and then smooth or soften the edges,... from a distance they look circular enough.

My :twocents: worth,... but I would be interested in finding out what Arno says concerning what MCX does or doesn't do with the soften/smooth edges. It was my understanding that MCX doesn't do anything with them,... but considering that it must,... given Peter's findings.
 
"Bumped" yet again for edits to my post ...located above in this thread: :idea:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/decrease-polygon-edges-lines.434139/page-2#post-717517


PS:

Pyscen said:
Concerning the OP's request,... the best option would to make maybe 3 (if different sizes are needed) and place them as in library objects. But,.. in thinking, about this,... maybe only 1 can be within a library,...and maybe sunken within the elevation is possible To give smaller version of the object.
Click to expand...

It is indeed possible to have multiple scenery object MDLs as "scenery library objects" along with their individual placement info as nested XML elements inside the source code ...for a 1-piece BGLComp-type "hybrid" (and therefore "geo-locked") BGL. ;)

GaryGB
 
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