FSX Excluding Autogen Trees Created with Autogen Annotator

[Ramjett53]

Having finally figured out how to create autogen trees over the top of MegaSceneryEarth Idahov3 with both Autogen Annotator and scenProc I now have run into another issue.

Despite carefully creating the vegetation poly so it does not touch or come close to the airport runway I still have autogen trees popping up on some of the runways, I assume that isbecause of the size of the autogen cell. I thought a simple exclude in ADEX or creating a polygon that excludes autogen would solve it, but it doesn't.

I have placed exclusion rectangles all the way down the runway and I have created a polygon that excludes only autogen. That polygon is 10 feet wider and longer than the runway. Neither one excludes the autogen trees created with either Autogen Annotator from the FSX SDK or with scenProc. Both AA and scenProc create .agn files to place the autogen trees. Is there something special about .agn trees that will not let them be excluded?

Would SBuilderX do the trick?

Randy

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Randy:

The type of Autogen exclusion that would be required to exclude Autogen annotations created via ScenProc or SDK Annotator for use with "custom" photo-real aerial imagery land class BGLs such as "MegaSceneryEarth Idahov3" (aka "MSE" for purposes of discussion in this thread) ...would not be a BGLComp-type XML-type "Rectangle", but rather a CVX vector Autogen exclusion polygon.

ADE and/or SBuilderX can create these CVX vector Autogen exclusion polygons.

They are categorized as types of Airport Boundary / Background Polygons, and can either be a single attribute object for exclusion of Autogen, or can be combined with 1 or 2 more attributes for flattening and/or display of a mapped, locally-compatible (default) land class texture as well.


NOTE: Default land class tiles use a distinctly different series of file names for the Autogen annotation *an.AGN files, and the Autogen annotation on such default land class can indeed be excluded by a BGLComp-type XML-type "Rectangle" that targets Autogen ...but Autogen annotations for "custom" photo-real aerial imagery land class BGLs can NOT be excluded by a BGLComp-type XML-type "Rectangle" that targets Autogen.

[EDITED]

PS: You may wish to review this thread regarding greater precision in Autogen annotation:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/installing-custom-autogen-configuration.428760/page-3


...and Jim Vile's tutorial in this thread regarding Airport Background Polygons (aka "ABPs")

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/landclass-visibility-problem.15173/


...with some pertinent caveats when working with ABPs here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/bizarre-behavior-of-sloped-flattens.435821/#post-728952

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/annotator-question-fsx.438054/#post-751753



You may also wish to review this excellent tutorial:

"Using the Autogen Annotator" by Luis Feliz-Tirado:

http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=140537

using_the_autogen_annotator_264833.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 21st November 2009, 16:18:51
Downloads: 3266
Author: Luis Feliz-Tirado

[END_EDIT]

Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[=rk=]

Yes, I've found that even vector polygons don't restrict trees to exact placement in regards to roads, 3d objects, shorelines, etc. It may be more effective to elevate the exclusions above the autogen layer, but in those instances I usually just stay clear and manually place at the tight intersections.

 

[Ramjett53]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen,

By this statement Gary...

ADE and/or SBuilderX can create these CVX vector Autogen exclusion polygons.

They are categorized as types of Airport Boundary / Background Polygons, and can either be a single attribute object for exclusion of Autogen, or can be combined with 1 or 2 more attributes for flattening and/or display of a mapped, locally-compatible (default) land class texture as well.

Are you referring to this...

Because if you are, this is what my vegetation polygon from Annotator looks like on the MSE BGL file...

As you can see, no border of any polygon touches the airstrip, yet this is what I see in the sim after I have created the polygon exclusion in the ADEX screenshot.

So the Exclusion Polygon from ADEX did not exclude to encroaching Autogen from Annotator. The only way to get a clear runway is to completely avoid the airstrip area in Annotator and place the trees as library objects (which is what I was entirely trying to avoid if you remember my other posts). Many of Idaho's Backcountry and USFS airstrips are closely bordered by trees and yet I cannot seem to find much success in "creating" that look.

Randy

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Randy:

What your above (middle) attached screenie shows is that you have used Autogen Vegetation "Polygons" rather than numerous discrete tiny Vegetation "Rectangles" (which often look like 'squares').

If you 'go the full distance' ...and read the linked threads cited above (especially the first one ! ), you will inevitably see a reference to an option for specifying the precision for FS run time rendering of Autogen Vegetation Polygons by setting a parameter value in FSX.Cfg:

[TERRAIN]
IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS=1024

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...togen-configuration.428760/page-3#post-679056


FYI: Autogen annotations placed by Autogen Vegetation Polygons can save work and allow for a more realistic randomization of autogen vegetation types within a polygon area (varying literally between different flights on the same date and time of day ! ), however they can also be rather unpredictable as to how far object placements may actually extend beyond the perceived / expected boundary of the polygon perimeter.

This is why many developers have opted to utilize vast numbers of tiny Autogen Vegetation "Rectangles" instead of a lesser number of Autogen Vegetation "Polygons" ...when creating autogen annotations for "custom" photo-real aerial imagery land class BGLs.


PS: Please note the edits in my initial reply to this thread:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ed-with-autogen-annotator.440865/#post-779538

[EDITED]

Note as well, that there are caveats as to what happens with multiple layers of Autogen annotation tiles associated with multiple layers of super-imposed "custom" photo-real aerial imagery land class BGLs that have used certain (excessively transparent) grayscale values in their Blend Masks:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/terrain_max_autogen_trees_per_cell.434273/


Additionally, just in case you ever wondered, there are also limitations as to how much one can saturate an individual Autogen annotation tile, which may yield both unpredictable and undesirable results:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/increase-number-of-autogen.20381/#post-141363

[END_EDIT]

GaryGB

 

[Ramjett53]

Thanks for the reply Gary,

Having read through the links my take from them is to set IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS= to a higher value, say between 256 to 1024, depending upon the hit on my system, for more accurate vegpoly placement from the MSE BGL in to FSX. I would still prefer to use veg polygons in Annotator, otherwise, by placing tiny veg rectangles (which I tried on a previous airstrip that had trees very, very close to the airport runway, I am right back to my initial issue, having to place many, many rectangles to "forest" the area close to the airstrip. I can already do that with ADEX and "ADD/LIBRARY OBJECT/TREE/ which is what I am trying to avoid, but perhaps it cannot be avoided for the sake of accuracy.

Having read all that, however, I'm still confused as to why the Airport Background Exclude Autogen ADEX Polygon doesn't exclude the trees on the runway. Is that not the "CVX Vector exclusion Polygon" you referred to in your first answering post? Perhaps, since the polygon doesn't "touch" the runway and the exclude polygon only borders the runway there is "nothing" it finds to exclude, even though FSX, because of the autogen polygon pixel size, places something there?

This learning curve is like the hills around the Salmon River in Idaho. It gets steeper as you get higher.

Randy

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

The area you refer to is a fabulous place to fly in MSFS; I've done some multi-player flying there ...great fun !


IMHO, based on limited testing, nearly any modern computer used with MSFS can easily accommodate:

IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS=2048


NOTE: I have edited my latter post to include some additional info which may prove pertinent to what you are seeing:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ed-with-autogen-annotator.440865/#post-779549

[EDITED]

PS: Be certain that in the FS Scenery Library GUI 'stack of layers', the "CVX Vector exclusion Polygon" Autogen exclude BGL is placed within a Area layer above that for the MSE "custom" photo-real aerial imagery BGLs ...with a resulting higher load priority (read: 'load after') relative to the load sequence for the MSE BGLs.

Such "exclude" BGLs can instead be included within the same \Scenery sub-folder provided that their load order within FS is forced via Alpha-numeric file naming ...so that it loads last after other BGL file names within that same \Scenery sub-folder.


For example, OrbX FTX might use this Alpha-numeric file name to control load order for a shoreline exclude:

"ZZZ_excl_FTX_PNW_shorelines.BGL"

http://scruffyduck.screenstepslive.com/s/help_docs/m/20268/l/199760-priority-matters


CAVEAT: There are exceptions to those general rules for excludes ...as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/trees-on-airport-scenery-priority.437641/

[END_EDIT]


< Sorry for the repetitive edits; I guess I will need that 2nd cup of coffee this morning ! >

GaryGB

 

[Ramjett53]

Once again, thanks for the reply Gary.

I have two HDs installed, a C:\ drive and the Z:\ drive. Both are 1TB drives. FSX is installed in Z:\FSX. The BGL files for MSEIdahov3 are installed in C:\MegaSceneryEarth/Idaho/Scenery. Autogen files I have created with either Annotator or ScenProc to work over the top of the MSE PhotoReal Scenery are in C:/MegaSceneryEarth/Idaho/Texture. When I installed MSEIdahov3 the install instructions suggested, very strongly, placing the scenery folder in a separate drive from the drive FSX was installed in, thus the "Scenery in C:\, FSX in Z:\" setup.

Within the FSX Settings Scenery Library, Megascenery Earth (reading the C:\ drive location) is priority 122, directly above the default scenery listings and below all other addon sceneries I have added to FSX. The folder containing my ADEX airstrips (and thus any CVX polygons I have created) is located in Z:\FSX\AddOn Scenery\BSM-ID\Scenery. Everything I have been taught about the Scenery Library this places the airport layer well above the MSE layer, so the exclude polygon should exclude...but doesn't. There must be another factor influencing autogen display over the top of the MSE BGL image in the sim.

Could it be because the .agn files created by Annotator and ScenProc aren't in the FSX drive, so the exclude polygon cannot find the autogen to exclude? I wouldn't think so, but you never know. Everything about the airstrips, all buildings I've placed with ADEX, any runway heading changes I have done to align with the photoreal image, all single trees placed as library objects, taxiways, everything ADEX can do appear just fine over the top of the MSE Photoreal...except the autogen exclusion poly or the Exclusion Rectangles. Those trees just don't want to be "chopped down". I'm just freelance brainstorming here because I have no idea.

By the way, IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS=1024 yielded absolutely no difference in the FPS in the Sim when flying over a "heavily annotated" region. Bumping it up to 2048 as soon as I finish this post.

Randy

 

[GaryGB]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ed-with-autogen-annotator.440865/#post-779555

I'm still confused as to why the Airport Background Exclude Autogen ADEX Polygon doesn't exclude the trees on the runway. Is that not the "CVX Vector exclusion Polygon" you referred to in your first answering post? Perhaps, since the polygon doesn't "touch" the runway and the exclude polygon only borders the runway there is "nothing" it finds to exclude, even though FSX, because of the autogen polygon pixel size, places something there?

If the exclude BGL is in the proper position within the FS Scenery Library GUI 'stack of layers', it "should" work properly, provided that there are no other factors interfering as discussed in the caveats linked- and alluded to- above.

FYI: In order for a CVX vector exclude to work properly, it must intersect or otherwise overlap the poly-line or polygon somewhere within each LOD-9 / QMID-11 quad that it exists within; this requires physical contact (in 2D vector space ) of the exclude object and object to be excluded.


If any portion of a continuous sequence of vertices along the course of a poly-line or polygon is contacted by any portion of a exclude object polygon bearing the assigned specific GUID attribute intended to exclude the target vector object, that target vector object "should" be excluded (except GPS hydro polygons which, IIUC, require using yet another special 'hybrid' exclude meta-object having 2 different GUIDs).


So, if you need to verify that your exclude polygon is indeed a polygon and not a poly-line due to a vector drawing error that leaves the polygon 'un-closed' (and therefore only a poly-line), double-check your polygons by re-loading them from the ADE *.AD4 airport area project file (...not from a airport BGLComp-XML BGL).


Alternatively you could examine the compiled CVX vector BGL output by ADE in Terrain SDK TMFViewer and toggle the polygon 'fill' display on and off to see if the polygon appears "filled", or if it is only a poly-line.


IMHO, for best results, this can be done with even greater precision by de-compiling the CVX vector BGL output by ADE with Patrick Germain's CVXExtractor, exporting to ESRI SHP files, then appending (all) those *.SHP files to a empty SBuilderX project session.

One can then see the vector objects super-imposed over a downloaded photo-real aerial imagery background.


Hope this additional information may help with the troubleshooting process.

GaryGB

 

[Ramjett53]

Thanks for the help Gary.

It sounds, from your description, that if I intersect the vegpoly with the exclude poly (and it is definitely a polygon, not a poly line) it will exclude the entire veg poly, not just the autogen portion that appears on the runway. That I do not want to do.

Good news, though, after setting the IMAGE_PIXELS_FOR_AUTOGEN_POLYGONS= to 2048 I picked an Idaho USFS airstrip surrounded by trees very close to the runway. I used annotator to create a vegpoly zooming in and following the treeline very, very closely. No autogen trees appear on the runway, yet they are very close at hand on the runway edge, just as they appear in real life. So, success of a sort.

I have a 1971 Ford 4WD Pickup. It has maintenance issues from time to time. I never consider anything "fixed" on it until something else breaks. Then I know the previous issue is resolved. I approach Flightsim in general and Scenery Design specifically the same way. So, not solved, but definitely works for what I want until I come across another issue that perplexes me.

Thank you so much for your help.

Randy