FSX:SE FSX:SE Install location

[Misho]

I am in the process of beta testing my FSX SpacePort Demo with a group of outside beta testers.

To my understanding, FSX (any version) is installed into the directory of user's choice, but there are 3 system directories to which things are "deposited" by the installer:

C:\Users\...\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX: main CFG and XML files, camera CFG, and a few other...
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\FSX : Scenery CFG file
C:\Users\...\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files : saved FLT files

This is for the original FSX (CD version) case. Now, in the case of Steam Edition, the "FSX" directories would be "FSX-SE" and, in the "Documents" case, "Flight Simulator X - Steam Edition Files"

I have several desktop boxes with dual installs and the directory structure as above, and everything is working well.

However - I have had one user reporting that a FSX Steam edition is installing into "FSX" and "Flight Simulator X Files" directories, NOT "FSX-SE" and "Flight Simulator X - Steam Edition Files" directories, as observed above. They report that they installed FSX-SE on a clean machine, without previous FSX CD version installs.

This indicates that the Steam Edition installer seems to make a decision that, if a FSX CD version exists, it names its directories "SE" specific, and if not, it assumes default FSX names. I have no idea why Steam edition would be doing this... it prohibits installation of FSX CD version if Steam Version exists, but allows it if Steam version is installed AFTER FSX CD version...

which is, in my opinion, a dastardly, dastardly thing to do.

Can anyone confirm this? Thanks!

 

[lionheart]

This is what I have for Registry hunting;


FSX:
#Program Files#\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X
KEY: SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator\10.0

FSX Steam below;
#Program Files#\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\FSX
KEY: SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\DovetailGames\FSX

I have the ones for P3D if you want those as well. V4 is the popular sim right now.

 

[Misho]

Thanks... right - I am clear on these, these are install locations. What I was asking about are the directories for FSX and FSX-SE where CFGs, DLL.XML and so on reside, then, directories where FLTs are saved, and finally, directories where Scenery.CFG (user copy) is residing.

 

[lionheart]

Ahh... That I do not know. Apologies.

 

[Misho]

Thanks, no worries

Wait... you never tweaked FSX.CFG for performance gains??

 

[toprob]

This indicates that the Steam Edition installer seems to make a decision that, if a FSX CD version exists, it names its directories "SE" specific, and if not, it assumes default FSX names. I have no idea why Steam edition would be doing this... it prohibits installation of FSX CD version if Steam Version exists, but allows it if Steam version is installed AFTER FSX CD version...

This isn't actually a bad idea, it means that any FSX addons can be directly installed in FSX-se without any hassle -- although you are right about installing FSX after FSX-se, but who would want to do that anyway?

 

[Misho]

This isn't actually a bad idea, it means that any FSX addons can be directly installed in FSX-se without any hassle -- although you are right about installing FSX after FSX-se, but who would want to do that anyway?

Well... any self-respecting add on worth its salt would sniff out both versions from the Registry and present user with a choice of where to install ... This is just ... confusing and plain Orwellian

 

[n4gix]

Misho, every installer I create will automatically sniff out whether FSX (Steam) is installed as "stand alone" (default FSX installation) or "side-by-side" (dual FSX(CD) and FSX:SE installation). This allows the customer to choose which version to install if they have both versions installed.

 

[Misho]

Thanks Bill!

Ok, great, so can you please confirm that, as I wrote,

• if stand-alone, Steam installer creates "FSX" and "Flight Simulator X Files" directories, and,
• if "side-by-side", Steam installer creates "FSX-SE" and "Flight Simulator X - Steam Edition Files" directories

If that's the case, I am still unsure why FSX:SE developers would make this distinction, rather than just install into "SE" branded directories without even checking if CD version is on it already? The dual installation obviously works. And, the part about "allowing the customer to choose which version to install" ... that info is obtained from registry, not by determining what are the names of the folders...

As I mentioned, if Steam version is installed first, it will be impossible to install CD version, because the directory names that CD version wants to use are already "taken".

And again, not allowing the FSX:CD version to be installed - that is just bad, bad practice by the FSX:SE developers.

 

[toprob]

I must admit I've always seen this as a good thing -- I have dozens of old FSX scenery releases which my users can install straight into FSX-se without having to wait for a new installer which specifically supports FSX-se. ...and wait... and wait.

 

[Misho]

I must admit I've always seen this as a good thing -- I have dozens of old FSX scenery releases which my users can install straight into FSX-se without having to wait for a new installer which specifically supports FSX-se. ...and wait... and wait.

Yes, I do see your point. In the case of old sceneries with installers, they would have to upgrade them to account for the SE version. However, users with the dual installs would be unable to use it on FSX:SE... forcing them to uninstall CD version, and re-install Steam. Again, not an ideal solution.

I know that not every publisher has resources, but an installer update for Steam version would be simple, and their marketing could benefit from labeling it "Now available for Steam version!!!" sticker on the "box"

 

[arno]

Misho, what you wrote about the directories is correct.

 

[n4gix]

As I mentioned, if Steam version is installed first, it will be impossible to install CD version, because the directory names that CD version wants to use are already "taken".

And again, not allowing the FSX:CD version to be installed - that is just bad, bad practice by the FSX:SE developers.

Well, we all have our own points of view... Honestly, why would anyone even want to install FSX:CD version if they already have FSX:SE installed as a stand-alone?

After all, FSX:SE stand-alone is effectively is the FSX:CD Acceleration version, with the bonus of having fixed many of the problems FSX:CD Acceleration version still had!

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Fr. Bill:

IIRC, you have a number of computers with various Windows versions and FS installations for beta testing, which seems very thorough.

In being that thorough, have you also tested FSX:SE with edits to FSX.Cfg that can DISABLE the new hard-coded optimizations / tweaks, so that one can test in a configuration that AFAIK, most FSX end users would be running: (FSX_DVD with NO optimizations / tweaks) ?

Thanks in advance for any further feedback with regard to this option in FS 'testing' protocols.

GaryGB

 

[n4gix]

Gary, I have one machine that acts as my baseline test computer. IOW, I have every FS version installed as default: no add-ons, tweaks, or such. They are effectively totally "virgin." I can boot that computer with either Win7 or Win10 so I can test in both environments.

 

[Misho]

Well, we all have our own points of view... Honestly, why would anyone even want to install FSX:CD version if they already have FSX:SE installed as a stand-alone?

After all, FSX:SE stand-alone is effectively is the FSX:CD Acceleration version, with the bonus of having fixed many of the problems FSX:CD Acceleration version still had!

Well, being a developer, I do want to test on both versions... but I suppose we developers are a special case. There are definitely other considerations... someone might have had a CD version with so many addons that they decided to keep it as is, instead of re-installing them all on SE version.

But here is another case that would be hard to argue against:

• User had a CD version since 2006
• Then, user installs Steam version. Steam version notices CD version exists and switches to "FSX-SE" directory/CFG labeling.
• Then, user un-installs CD version.
• Steam version is now in "FSX-SE" mode, but without CD version present. However, installer that checks for CD version and doesn't find it, assumes that Steam version is in "FSX" label mode....
• and boom - things go wrong.

and that is the mess and confusion I am talking about. And this is not trivial - I had a beta tester report the very same problem to me - basically my installer breaks down because it can't find the right directory. So, due to Steam version's messed up approach to installation, I now have to insert extra logic that checks for several additional "what-if" scenarios.

 

[Misho]

Misho, what you wrote about the directories is correct.

Thanks Arno! That's what I was asking for!

 

[n4gix]

Misho, all of my installers check the registry for every possible version. In your described scenario, a registry entry for the FSX:SE would exist, and the path to the root folder would be used.

 

[Misho]

Misho, all of my installers check the registry for every possible version. In your described scenario, a registry entry for the FSX:SE would exist, and the path to the root folder would be used.

As do mine... however, FSX registry entries only have a value for the location of the install files. They do not contain the directories where the CFGs or FLTs are, nor do they keep registry entries of un-installed FSX versions.

So - if an install program needs to know where the CFGs and FLTs are (as mine does, because it makes changes to FSX.CFG and adds sample FLT files), in the case above it would get confused:

• User is using FSX:CD for 10 years
• User then buys FSX:SE, and installs it "side-by-side"
• At some point, user decides to remove FSX:CD and only use FSX:SE
• User installs new add on for FSX:SE. Installer would check and not find FSX:CD in the registry, therefore it would assume FSX:SE was stand-alone and it named its CFG "FSX.CFG".
• however, since FSX:CD WAS present when FSX:SE was installed, FSX:SE actually named its CFG "FSX-SE.CFG".
• Now, with FSX:SE being the only FSX version, the installer would look for "FSX.CFG" and it wouldn't find it because the actual CFG that FSX:SE created was "FSX-SE.CFG"

I hope you can follow this ... but this is a real problem that is happening with my installer right now. I do have a fairly simple solution - if the "expected" file is not found, simply try the "other" possible file name. That should fix it.

 

[n4gix]

Ah! Yes, your situation becomes clear now. I hadn't recognized the precise nature of your extreme edge case.