HELP with photo image still slightly visible under water.

[Sibs]

I have done a few projects with no issues. All of a sudden I cant get around this problem.
Crested White layer 255x255x255, created water mask, colored all my water out in 0 black. Created Blend, colored all land out in 0 black. Turned off Blend, Flattened Water mask, white and bmp photo. Saved as _W.tiff. Turned off watermask. turned on blend. Flattened blend, white, and bmp photo. Saved as _B.tiff.

Re opened in Sbuilder314 and it take 5 minutes or more to compile a less then 400 mb file. When I place the .bgl and go into the sim, I am constantly getting the aerial image water looking like its sitting under the default FSX water. See PIC.
If I go back and recompile my previous projects , they compile in around a minute and there twice the file size.
I tried re installing Sbuilder. Using Photoshop CS5 64bit, running Win10 thru the on line update, I have spent the past 5 day searching the forums to see if I can figure this out. I am now at wits end. Please help. I uploaded 3 images showing my test. Layers, Watermask, and Blend. This is the way I am flattening the layers for my _W.tiff and _B.tiff as an example.
Thanks Al

 

[William123]

Hi,

Perhaps your *.ini file isn't written correctly? Could you insert it as a code?

Please NOTE: that the Black Color (0.0.0) in a WaterMask represents the Water in the Sim, however I don't see that you've painted your water with Black?

* Actually: I don't usually use the .TIFF Format for my WaterMasks and BlendMasks. I save all of my PhotoScenery sources (including Imagery,BlendMask,WaterMask,NightMap...etc) as BMP 24-bits

Maybe you need to take a look at this tutorial too on how to create a PhotoScenery?

Hope this helps!

 

[Sibs]

Thanks William, The image I posted Watermask.jpg should show the water on my hastily done test in black, unless you see something here I don't. please let me know. I compared the ini of my test with the ini of previous projects, and I don't see anything out of the ordinary, Watching a few tutorials I saw it saved as a tiff but I will definitely try a 24bit BMP. I have that tutorial and followed it to the letter but using Photoshop instead of Gimp. I might try the way in the tutorial and manually placing my text in the ini rather than using Sbuilder.
Thanks again Al

 

[William123]

Thanks William, The image I posted Watermask.jpg should show the water on my hastily done test in black, unless you see something here I don't. please let me know. I compared the ini of my test with the ini of previous projects, and I don't see anything out of the ordinary, Watching a few tutorials I saw it saved as a tiff but I will definitely try a 24bit BMP. I have that tutorial and followed it to the letter but using Photoshop instead of Gimp. I might try the way in the tutorial and manually placing my text in the ini rather than using Sbuilder.
Thanks again Al

Yes I don't actually use SBuilderX for generating the .ini file. I write it by myself rather than the default generated .ini file by SBuilderX (Because sometimes I need to include some special settings), and here is the code I usually use. It works perfect for my PhotoSceneries

[Source]
Type = MultiSource
NumberOfSources = 3

[Source1]
   Type = BMP
   Layer = Imagery
   SourceDir = "."
   SourceFile = "Example.BMP"
   Variation = All
   Channel_BlendMask = 2.0
   Channel_LandWaterMask = 3.0
   ulyMap =  //Your coordinates here
   ulxMap =   //Your coordinates here
   xDim =   //Your coordinates here
   yDim =   //Your coordinates here

[Source2]
   Type = BMP
   Layer = None
   SourceDir = "."
   SourceFile = "Example_B.bmp"
   SamplingMethod = Gaussian
   ulyMap =  //Your coordinates here
   ulxMap =   //Your coordinates here
   xDim =   //Your coordinates here
   yDim =   //Your coordinates here

[Source3]
   Type = BMP
   Layer = None
   SourceDir = "."
   SourceFile = "Example_W.bmp"
   SamplingMethod = Gaussian
   ulyMap =   //Your coordinates here
   ulxMap =  //Your coordinates here
   xDim =   //Your coordinates here
   yDim =   //Your coordinates here

[Destination]
   DestDir = "."
   DestBaseFileName = "Example"
   DestFileType = BGL
   LOD = Auto
   UseSourceDimensions = 1
   CompressionQuality = 85

If you need any additional settings such as Seasons or Night Maps...etc, feel free to ask because I have other examples for how to include Seasons and Night Maps inside a PhotoScenery.
You should also note that using GIMP or Photoshop doesn't matter because it's the same thing, mate! And try to use your sources as *.BMP 24-bits rather than .TIFF then tell me about the result


William.

 

[Sibs]

Thanks William, I am going to try it manually again using your ini.
thanks Al

 

[Sibs]

Hi William
I found that if I use photo shop to remover where I want water, Select, invert and paint it out black. Than save it with my BMP so my BMP contains the layer that signify water. Than create a blend layer to remove the photo where I want land ,save that as my _B. Use your .ini with 2 sources than it compiles perfectly with no evidence of the photo covering water. Yet doing it where I creat seperate _W and _B files it give the image you see above with the elusion of my photo BMP slightly submerged. Whish I could understand why that is.
Al

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

Just a quick point of clarification to avoid confusion for other readers...


FS SDK Resample requires a INF (setup configuration 'Information') file (not a "INI" file).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INF_file


SBuilder for FS9 and/or SBuilder for FSX (aka "SBuilderX") utilizes a "INI" (aka 'Initialization') file

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file



FYI: If one uses the RGBA / ARGB "channels" in a BMP image file format, one has the (3) visible RBG channels portion of the source aerial imagery and only (1) additional Alpha channel to work with.

Normally the water areas in the visible RBG channels portion of the source aerial imagery are not edited for purposes of Land / Water masking.

Within the Alpha channel, one then paints the water areas (otherwise seen in the visible RBG channels portion of the source aerial imagery) "Absolute Black" (0,0,0 hex RGB) as a 1-bit B+W image; this is the Water Mask.

However the INF file must be configured to tell Resample what to do with that "Black" (0,0,0 RGB hex) color Water Mask, so FS knows to render those pixel areas as "water" at run time.

[EDITED]

NOTE: Final output source file format for TIFF Masks must actually be 8-Bit gray-scale; see:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...-scenery-achievable.440912/page-4#post-789447

[END_EDIT]

Due to the limitations of the BMP file format which allow only (1) Alpha channel, one must then use an additional separate ex: BMP or TIF image file as a "Blend Mask", which contains a 8-bit gray scale gradient to define where and how transparency is to be applied in FS at run time, so that the top photo-real layer of aerial imagery blends with 1 or more layers underneath.

Again, the INF file is configured to tell Resample what to do with the "Gray color" bands of the gray scale gradient within the 8-bit image file "Blend Mask" ..so FS knows to utilize those pixel areas as "image blending " data at run time.


When more than (1) channel and/or more than (1) aerial imagery source file is to be used when compiling, one must use a "Multi-source" type of INF file with FS SDK Resample.


BTW: Targa (*.TGA) and TIFF (*.TIF) may be useful alternatives to the BMP file format, as they allow (2) or more Alpha channels within the same physical file along with the visible RBG channels portion of the source aerial imagery.

Although is is possible to use manually entered Geo-referencing info with BMP, TGA and TIF files for custom photo-real terrain texture creation with FS SDK Resample, Geo-TIFF files may simplify ones work-flow due to their capacity to contain (2) or more Alpha channels within the same physical file along with the (3) visible RGB channels portion of ones source aerial imagery ...all in a (1)-piece Geo-referenced source file that can be read internally by Resample to automatically derive and utilize several INF parameters that would otherwise have required manual calculation and editing into the INF file text.


Hope this helps with the learning process !

GaryGB

 

[William123]

Hello:

Just a quick point of clarification to avoid confusion for other readers...


FS SDK Resample requires a INF (setup configuration 'Information') file (not a "INI" file).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INF_file


SBuilder for FS9 and/or SBuilder for FSX (aka "SBuilderX") utilizes a "INI" (aka 'Initialization') file

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file

Thank you Gary for correcting the mistake

BTW: Targa (*.TGA) and TIFF (*.TIF) may be useful alternatives to the BMP file format, as they allow (2) or more Alpha channels within the same physical file along with the visible RBG channels portion of the source aerial imagery.

I'm not quite sure that Targa and TIFF work well with the PhotoScenery. The last time when I made a PhotoScenery, I used BMP 24-bits as BlendMask and WaterMask sources... Because TGA and TIFF (might) generate some 'Red' areas inside some parts of the PhotoSceney. Can you confirm that, Gary?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Russel:

If you have a specific scenario where Red appears in terrain textures, we could properly troubleshoot that if you describe it in greater detail, and perhaps also provide screen shots and/or data files for analysis.


But, generally speaking, when Red appears in terrain textures in FS at run time, it is not, IMHO, due to use of a *.TGA and/or *.TIFF source file format having been used; rather it is likely due to how the FS rendering engine deals with "missing data" in compiled files ...such as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ring-and-summer-seasons-are-solid-red.123533/


Some additional links: https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+Red+data


Hope this helps a bit more !

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Thank you Gary for correcting the mistake

I'm not quite sure that Targa and TIFF work well with the PhotoScenery. The last time when I made a PhotoScenery, I used BMP 24-bits as BlendMask and WaterMask sources... Because TGA and TIFF (might) generate some 'Red' areas inside some parts of the PhotoSceney. Can you confirm that, Gary?

Hi Russel:

The FS SDK documentation indicates acceptable source file formats for FS SDK Resample here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#SourceParameters


Use of TGA and TIFF file format for FS SDK Resample custom photo-real land class creation is NOT inherently more likely to result in "Red" areas appearing on terrain textures in FS at run time; that is more likely due to the developer's work-flow and how FS renders "missing data" attributes in textured areas ...such as discussed here:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/th...ring-and-summer-seasons-are-solid-red.123533/


Some additional links:

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+GaryGB+Red+data

If you have a specific scenario with more detailed descriptions, screen shots, data files to attach, we could properly discuss possible causes and troubleshoot a project where you are incurring 'Red areas' in terrain textures at run time.


PS: The FS Resample SDK docs recommend use of a:

* 1-bit B+W Alpha channel-type image for a "Water Mask"

* 8-bit gray-scale Alpha channel-type image for a "Blend Mask"

...because they require less data space in a BGL (and less FS Task session USERVAS at run time) than a 24-bit color image.

The extra 3-channels for the visible RGB are not required to achieve the goals of simply turning water on/off with a "Water Mask", and/or blending in 256 (or less) steps of gray with a "Blend Mask", the visible photo-real water image into the default FS 'living water' that provides reflecting / moving / splashing / floating / sinking terrain surface attributes (super-imposed over a default water class texture color).

Hope this helps a bit more !

GaryGB

 

[William123]

Thank you so much for the very detailed explanation!! I really appreciate you taking your time to explain for us how to work with PhotoScenery!

So it sounds like my process was wrong that's why I got some red areas appearing on FSX... My method was as the following:
1- Create the BlendMask and WaterMask
2- Save them as .TIF 8-bits without Alpha Channel. Maybe this step is wrong?

Basing on what you said: I have to leave the Background with full white and the Mask should be done inside the Alpha Chanel. Please let me know if I'm right now?

I'd like also to know how to calculate those values (Beginning from the coordinates of the PhotoScenery) that can be found in the *.INI file of the PhotoScenery:
ulyMap
ulxMap
xDim
yDim
If you don't mind, could you tell me how to calculate the values above, Gary?

Thank you so much again, Gary. And another thank you in advance

 

[GaryGB]

Thank you so much for the very detailed explanation!!

I really appreciate you taking your time to explain for us how to work with PhotoScenery!

So it sounds like my process was wrong that's why I got some red areas appearing on FSX... My method was as the following:
1- Create the BlendMask and WaterMask
2- Save them as .TIF 8-bits without Alpha Channel. Maybe this step is wrong?

Basing on what you said: I have to leave the Background with full white and the Mask should be done inside the Alpha Chanel. Please let me know if I'm right now?

If you have a specific scenario with more detailed descriptions, screen shots, data files to attach, we could properly discuss / troubleshoot a project.

In the mean time I would recommend practicing with your own project source data, the work-flow steps in the tutorial you cited above:

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?250762-How-to-create-photoreal-scenery-for-FSX


[EDITED]

NOTE: In the above linked tutorial thread at flightsim.com by Tiberius K. et al.:

"How-to-create-photoreal-scenery-for-FSX - PART III - Watermasks and Blendmasks"

...the examples using GIMP state that one should "Add a new layer", and the illustrations show the 'Layer Fill Type' with the "Transparency" radio button 'ticked'; this means that such a "Transparency" layer will function as a new Alpha channel in that multi-layer image file.

[END_EDIT]

I'd like also to know how to calculate those values (Beginning from the coordinates of the PhotoScenery) that can be found in the *.INF file of the PhotoScenery:

ulyMap
ulxMap
xDim
yDim

If you don't mind, could you tell me how to calculate the values above, Gary?

Thank you so much again, Gary. And another thank you in advance

It would be easier to do this using GeoTIFFS, so that FS SDK Resample can "automatically derive and utilize several INF parameters that would otherwise have required manual calculation and editing into the INF file text".

It is also a good idea to keep a 'commented-out' backup of the above Parameter Values inside a INF file via use of Ollyau's "GeoTIFF-To-INF" utility:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/geotiff-to-inf.119/


If you prefer to use BMPs downloaded via SBuilderX, be aware of the fact that there are also Geo-referencing *.TXT "world" files with file names matching the name of the 'paired' BMPs in the same folder under SBuilderX where they were downloaded and saved into ...from the web tile-server.

Since one typically will assemble a number of 'selected' aerial imagery tiles together into a composite background image in SBuilder when making photo-real imagery, one may wish to create a Geo-TIFF from the saved composite background image BMP file written by SBuilder into:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work\[your composite aerial imagery file name].BMP


Note: There should also be a "paired" geo-referencing text file in that same folder along with each such composite background image BMP:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work\[your BMP-matched file name_Geo-referencing info].TXT


FYI: One can simply use the default work-flow in SBuilderX to process (internally) the downloaded and selected BMP files, then back-up and edit the resulting INF file output along with the above BMP and paired Geo-referncing TXT files ...created when the source files are "compiled" into a BGL.

Then one can:

* make a Geo-TiFF from the composite background image BMP

* use Ollyau's "GeoTIFF-To-INF" utility to insert Geo-referencing into a INF file that can be copied / edited for use with one's multiple source files.


[EDITED]

NOTE: For more information regarding use of GeoTIFFs with SBuilderX:

SBuilderX > Help > [Search Tab] > keyword: GeoTIFF > click: [List Topics] > click: Working with Maps

[END_EDIT]


Alternatively, one can manually copy-and-paste the Geo-referencing info from the [SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work\[your BMP-matched file name_Geo-referencing info].TXT into a manually edited INF file (this procedure is recommended for experienced users only ! ).


The critical issue here is that regardless of what aerial imagery tile and derivative image file formats are used to create ones photo-real imagery BGL, one must NOT change the number of Pixel Rows and Columns after the original composite background image is created by SBuilder and written into:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work\


Hope this clarifies the work-flow for creating custom photo-real aerial imagery textures with SBuilderX !

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Bumped for edits in my posts above.

GaryGB

 

[Sibs]

Thanks Gary for all this info. I have a lot here to go over. Appreciate it.
Al