How do I change the elevation of default terrain

[jgarnold]

I have recently completed an airport including an 88 metre long pier. Looking at photos I have found on the internet the end of the pier where the ground is is at the same elevation as the ground at that point yet in MSFS2020 the ground elevation is much lower and in fact basically the same as the edge of the water. I remember changing terrain elevation in FSX using polygons and also that the vertexes of a polygon could all be different in elevation to create a slope. I can't find any Youtube video tutorials on how to do it in MSFS.

Would someone please 'point me' to where I can find documentation on how to do this.

Here is a screen shot showing that my pier ends around 3 meters above the ground elevation which is at water level. The ground elevation in realty is much higher.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:

What is the Geographic Coordinates of the pier ?

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Hello Gary. According to Google Earth 49 degrees 28' 55.5" NORTH 123 degrees 45' 29.75" WEST The closest MSFS airport is CAP3 which is 4 kilometres SE.

My airport has been created using ADE with models I created using Blender. Aha (the 'penny just dropped) maybe I should try looking for 'terrain' polygons in ADE like I used with FSX to alter land elevation - hopefully the exercise is the same?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:

Indeed, (...and, in theory), the use of MSFS SDK Polygons with assigned Altitudes for the vertex points should work.

The water at Sechelt is ultimately connected to the Pacific Ocean at Sea Level, and thus should be set at 0 Meters AGL / AMSL

If we do not assign Altitudes, MSFS rendering engine assumes it should merge co-planar Polygons and vertices fall back to the local terrain mesh; that MSFS local terrain mesh may- or may not- be correct.


Be aware that the default Falloff Distance values for Polygon types may have varying minimum extents for overlap, and that shaping terrain and/or shoreline slopes descending into water may require use of separate Polygons when precise shoreline drop-offs are required, but you wish to blend into adjacent Polygons on another side of a scenery area.

Also, in a (presumably temporary ?) attempt by Asobo to take some of the heat off regarding "water creep" up onto shorelines, all scenery by default seems to set water Polygons at the same Altitude as adjacent local shorelines.

Consequently, to see the terrain and water at MSFS' internally assigned mesh Altitudes which are closer to IRL, we must do this:

MSFS DevMode Menu > Options > Ground > Un-check: Enable Water Flattening (...each and every time we start a flight ).

After changing the latter setting, you will begin to see what the "lay of the Land" (and Water) actually is locally in MSFS terrain.

Additionally, one must set: <Esc> Options > General Options > Terrain Vector Data: Ultra ...for maximum detail.


Remember that we just had a SU-10 Canada scenery update, purportedly including a terrain mesh upgrade, but I have not checked to see which areas were actually updated with elevation data yet.

The base data previously in use for Canada was 23 Meters between elevation data points.

I'll check back after I see what Canada GIS now has available for the Sechelt area in case that may prove to be of interest.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Gary
Firstly I would prefer to use ADE as my airport has been created using ADE and to use MSFS DEvmode would result in extra 'packages' (I intend to release this as freeware on flightsim.to)
I now have the latest MSFS update installed (today) and yet the terrain elevation at this place is still incorrect possibly as the closest airport (before mine) is CAP3 some 4km away and so no one would normally see the terrain close up here (unless they happen to land on Porpoise Bay in an amphibian - very unlikely).
I will work on enhancing my ADE airport project to add terrain polygons.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

I just tested Altitudes in the Got Gravel Savage Cub:

At the land end of the pier: 10 Feet

In / on the water: 0 Feet

Dare I say your work is already done ?

Provided, of course, we use the settings above, to eliminate "dumbing-down" of terrain by Asobo via MSFS' default settings.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

That looks great Gary
Could you please exp-lain more how you got that eg Altitudes in the Got Gravel Savage Cub - what is this and where do I get it. I 'Googled' it and got some 'hits' but found a couple of likely web sites (eg flightsim.to) but still got lost. And is there docs which come with it? I assume that I will need to advise anyone who downloads my airport scenery package that they will need to download this as well?

 

[GaryGB]

GotGravel's fictionally enhanced add-on aircraft mods are great fun (links at the bottom right of his profile page):

https://flightsim.to/profile/GotGravel

HEY KIDS ...COLLECT THE ENTIRE SET OF THESE AIRPLANES !


I fly these in Multiplayer mode every week.

WARNING: These aircraft will spoil you for "normal" Flying (oops ...I used the "F"-word at FSDev again).


PS: I also use this add-on for the legacy FS2Kx on-screen parameters (seen above) ...rather than the A/C HUD:

https://flightsim.to/file/16358/shift-z-stats


I'm notoriously always in 'locked spot mode' (...even when I am not flying in MSFS ? )


One does not need to use the A/C cited above to measure Altitude AGL, as it always reads at the A/C's central 3D model datum.

It is just that this A/C happens to be modeled very low to the (FS) ground, and gives a practical measure of ground Altitude.


For more precise measurements, one should use other means to capture FS ground altitude via ADE or SBuilderX c/o FSUIPC.


BTW: I have not had time to contact GMAN to see if he would convert the Finney Ground Cross Hairs Plus (aka "CH+") to MSFS.

The CH+ A/C is purposely 3D modeled to read Altitude on the ground, and is very useful in scenery building (only in FS2Kx).


But I do have a custom app I can use, that reads FS ground Altitude from FSUIPC up to 13 decimal places when I capture terrain.

In that app:

At the land end of the pier: 6.3181800842 Feet

In / on the water: -2.973261179 Feet

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

I don't know how you got that terrain. Once again I am up to date with (automatic) downloads and when I go to that place I see the following. Or is this part of a download the user must select in the marketplace and download?

 

[jgarnold]

I just checked and according to the 'market place' I 'own' World Update CANADA. Top of screen shows that I am at version 1.29.30.0

 

[GaryGB]

Did you go to MSFS > Main Menu > Profile > Content Manager > Installed ...to see if World Update Canada is actually installed ?

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

When I select the Canada WU in the market place it displays owned AND INSTALLED. What am I doing wrong? Could it be in the settings for graphics terrain level of detail?

 

[GaryGB]

Indeed, I also have:

Terrain Level Of Detail: 400

...and

Off Screen Terrain Pre-Caching: Ultra

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

I set terrain LOD from 100 to 200 and there was no difference. I then increased it to 300 and the next time I started MSFS at my airport it crashed. So I tried again (with LOD at 300) and still no difference. I then set it to 400 and still NO DIFFERENCE. Maybe there is another setting? Or do you have install a Canada MESH?

I remember watching a youtube video using DEvmode where a polygon was added and then 'dragged' up and the terrain increased in altitude. The 'falloff' could also be set. I must try and find that again and then check ADE to see if there is something there to duplicate what I saw in Devmode. Maybe even post a question at the ADE forum although I thought that I saw that Jon (the author) stating he was retiring from it?

Found the video. It is about TERRAFORMING and is at

 

[GaryGB]

I set terrain LOD from 100 to 200 and there was no difference. I then increased it to 300 and the next time I started MSFS at my airport it crashed. So I tried again (with LOD at 300) and still no difference. I then set it to 400 and still NO DIFFERENCE. Maybe there is another setting? Or do you have install a Canada MESH?

No custom terrain mesh yet for BC@Canada, as it seems there was only updated elevation data generated for Newfoundland.

I remember watching a youtube video using DevMode where a polygon was added and then 'dragged' up and the terrain increased in altitude. The 'falloff' could also be set. I must try and find that again and then check ADE to see if there is something there to duplicate what I saw in Devmode. Maybe even post a question at the ADE forum although I thought that I saw that Jon (the author) stating he was retiring from it?

Perish the thought that Jon might retire from ADE development for MSFS.


I'll try to test ADE and DevMode tomorrow (it's almost 3 A.M. here) with a 2-Way Edit project to see if it works.

If not, I'll see if ADE can do terrain Polygon elevation mods initially within its 'own' *.apf / Project environment.


Using DevMode is no problem if you already have created the Project folder chain in ADE, Airport2Project, or MCX.


Like ADE_v1.79x, SBuilderX can make CVX vector Polygons that normally would be compiled for FS2Kx via SDK SHP2VEC.

Both ADE and SBuilderX write a temporary intermediate work ESRI SHP file in their respective folder chains that MSFS can use.


If opened in a Project, a SHP file is listed as a Polygon 'primitive'; SHP attributes must then be assigned in Polygon Properties.

Thus, we should be able to make Polygons and TINs for sloped RWYs and airport background flatten blending like we do in FS2Kx.


IIUC, the MSFS SDK DevMode GUI for Terraforming is a front end for creating gridded TINs that output into XML.

My method keeps SHP files as separate data sources that never output into XML.


I'll post some more on these work-flows tomorrow.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Gary You ARE a 'night owl'.
I posted a question in the ADE FOR MSFS forum and look forward to catching up with you later especially using my ADE project in DEvmode which is probably the quickest way.
Cheers
John

 

[GaryGB]

Thanks Gary You ARE a 'night owl'.

Because I actually do "give a hoot", once in a while I may work into the (very) late hours.

I posted a question in the ADE FOR MSFS forum and look forward to catching up with you later especially using my ADE project in DEvmode which is probably the quickest way.
Cheers
John

I wish to change the terrain altitude in a small area near my new airport which I created using ADE. I see that terraforming can be used in Devmode BUT can it be used/duplicated in ADE and if so is there documentation on how to use it?
Thanks

No - sorry

Hi John:

You may find that the DevMode GUI is relatively useful as an alternative for certain tasks not (yet ?) available via ADE.

For purposes of Terraforming, there may be a process that can substitute for the DevMode GUI Terraforming feature via TIN *.SHP files.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulated_irregular_network


Using detailed elevation data in a GIS app, an elevation grid TIN can be auto-constructed, and exported as a ESRI Shape (*.SHP) file.

That 'may' be utilized by the DevMode GUI as a complex Polygon object with assigned vertex point elevations for a TIN.

This might be implemented as a MSFS "sloped flatten polygon" for precise terrain modeling of an area, instead of using terrain mesh.


I found that there is indeed high resolution 1 Meter LiDAR elevation data available for your project area (downloading now).

If you are interested, I can post some screenshots in FS as photo-real textured surface models and bare Earth terrain models.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Hi Gary,

Yes I would be interested.

Also I would be interested in knowing how to open a project created with ADE in Devmode as I now remember a year ago I was 'playing' with terraforming for a very different reason and remember that it was quite easy to use. I will try later to open my 'ADE' project in Devmode and if I can't get back to you as you mentioned earlier in this thread that it should be possible?

 

[GaryGB]

With your project loaded in ADE:

ADE Menu > File > Airport Properties > Test Radius = 50,000 Meters (not 5,000 Meters)


ADE Menu > Project > Back Up

ADE outputs the ADE project backup folder chain ZIP to the original project folder chain path ex:

[ADE_2020_Alpha_21 install path]\F20\CAP3-Sechelt-Gibsons-Aerodrome


Copy that ZIP ADE project backup folder chain into ex:

C:\Users\[user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\CAP3-Sechelt-Gibsons-Aerodrome\ sub-folder

Un-ZIP the ADE project backup folder chain inside that sub-folder


In MSFS [DevMode] Menu > Open Project > browse / select / click: [Open] button on:

C:\Users\[user profile name]\Documents\MyFSProjects\CAP3-Sechelt-Gibsons-Aerodrome\CAP3-Sechelt-Gibsons-Aerodrome.xml


Your ADE-created project will open in MSFS SDK DevMode GUI Project Editor

In MSFS SDK DevMode GUI Project Editor > select / click on: cap3-airport BGL


In MSFS SDK DevMode GUI Project Editor > View > select > Inspector

In MSFS SDK DevMode GUI Project Editor > Inspector (Name = "cap3-airport") > click [Load in Editor] button


That 'worked example' should refresh your memory.

GaryGB

 

[jgarnold]

Well done Gary

Did you mean CAX3_Sechelt not CAP3 Sechelt Gibsons which already exists in MSFS and is a few miles from CAX3?

My airport created with ADE is CAX3 Sechelt Water Airport and in real life is still used today but was officially closed some years ago and so I am creating it as an 'addon' airport for MSFS.
Sechelt/Porpoise Bay Water Aerodrome

Thanks too for the 'directions' although I have used Devmode before to add a missing bridge in MSFS (https://flightsim.to/file/43978/windang-bridge-scenery) which was done by creating a 'dummy' airport (with thanks to Rumbaflappy) as the area is too far from the nearest MSFS airport (YSHL) to simply add the scenery for that airport.

I was starting to think that all I needed to do was to backup my (ADE) airport (package) and then simply open the xml file in Devmode but wasn't sure if there were other 'things' to do as well.