MSFS24 How to make a scenery acceptable ?

[meijefs]

Hi,
I would like to do a check list to be clean and so that my first scenery get accepted by the community, platforms, marketplaces and obviously … gamers/simmers !

Here are a few questions :

Do I have to Lod every assets ? (I only lodded the complex ones)

I Use pbr textures from ambientCG CC0 1.0 and will mention this credit : Created using <asset name> from ambientCG.com,

licensed under the Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal License.
Is it ok and enough ? Do I have to mention every textures ?

Cgtrader assets (i have a John deere tractor)
I will mention this :
Tractor John Deere by sonalbhagora on Cgtrader licence royalties Free licence (Sharing copying remixing and commercial but no redistribution, selling or AI training)

My compiling Log looks clean, there are a few warnings such as renaming objects when an object with the same name already exists but zero errors.

CAN I Feel Free to create POI Star with one of my handcrafted asset ? (Historic buildings, castles …)

Do I have to mention autorisations that I’ve been given from owners of these buildings ?

Collisions : do I have to set « collision material » on every texture ? I’d like to keep a few ones without collision material, for gaming expérience…

I used 2k textures only (2048*2048) in .png format, and some of them are not pbr, only color based … is that ok ?

What are you considering as a good performance optimisation ? How to do that ? Is there a way to count every vertices in a scène or do I have to validate on my own that performance and fps are correct ?

Do I have to double check something else I’ve forgotten ?

Thank you very much for your help !

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

I believe your inquiry, when an answer is received for all its questions, will be helpful to others here.


Because there are (still) some differences in MSFS 2020 and 2024, it is important to distinguish the requirements for each.

To distinguish those requirements, I recommend in the future to always identify which version of MSFS your posts pertain to.


To help FSDev index, and forum participants to follow or contribute posts to- your thread(s), it will be important for you to:


* Please state which version of FS this thread pertains to; edit your first post (aka "Opening Post" aka "OP") to insert this info.


Choose a FS version that is subject of a thread by clicking the 'down arrow' next to "(No prefix)" ...when starting new threads.


It is a good idea to go back and edit your posts to add the MSFS version prefix while you only have a few posts here thus far.

Thanks.

Do I have to Lod every assets ? (I only lodded the complex ones)

LODs are a good idea in both the 2020 and 2024 versions of MSFS; but LODs are REQUIRED in 2024.

In 2020 it is at least the 'complex' 3D models that should have LODs included.

GaryGB

 

[meijefs]

Oh thank you Gary, so I stated the version into the thread (MSFS 2024) and one another post. I hope it's correct now.
When you say "LODs are required in 2024" on every asset, what minimum depth is required (LOD0,1,2,3 ... ore more) ?
Or, there might be an official list of requirements for msfs 2024 somewhere ?

 

[GaryGB]

Hi again:

Thanks for helping us to sort out our thread topics in forums and sub-forums; the amount of info here at FSDEV is vast.


I have not had time to explore the LOD system reportedly required in MSFS 2024, but here is a query on that at FSDEV via Google:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2024+LOD+required&client=firefox-b-1-d&hs=sSmp&sca_esv=9f8463f094060b86&ei=4FTuafKsC6eLruEPipnCeQ&biw=960&bih=469&ved=0ahUKEwjynOe0joyUAxWnhSsGHYqMMA8Q4dUDCBE&oq=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2024+LOD+required&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiMHNpdGU6IHd3dy5mc2RldmVsb3Blci5jb20gTVNGUyAyMDI0IExPRCByZXF1aXJlZDIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAFIppgCUIseWOiDAnABeACQAQCYAZMBoAHKHKoBBTI3LjEyuAEMyAEA-AEB-AECmAIooALjHcICDhAAGIAEGLEDGIMBGLADwgIUEAAYgAQYigUYjQYYsQMYgwEYsAPCAggQABiABBiwA8ICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIREAAYgAQYigUYjQYYsQMYgwHCAg4QLhjHARixAxjRAxiABMICEBAAGIAEGIoFGEMYsQMYgwHCAhoQLhiABBiKBRiNBhixAxiDARjHARivARiOBcICERAuGIAEGLEDGIMBGMcBGNEDwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMYxwEY0QPCAhQQLhiABBixAxiDARjHARivARiOBcICCBAuGLEDGIAEwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAg0QLhiABBiKBRhDGLEDwgIUEC4YgAQYigUYjQYYsQMYxwEYrwHCAgsQLhiABBixAxiDAcICEBAuGIAEGIoFGEMYxwEY0QPCAgoQABiABBiKBRhDwgINEAAYgAQYigUYQxixA8ICChAuGIAEGIoFGEPCAggQLhiABBixA8ICEBAAGIAEGIoFGEMYsQMYyQPCAgQQABgDwgIIEAAYgAQYkgPCAgsQLhiABBjHARjRA8ICCxAuGK8BGMcBGIAEwgIFEAAYgATCAgsQLhiABBjHARivAcICBRAhGKsCwgIFEAAY7wXCAggQABiABBiiBJgDAIgGAZAGCZIHBTI1LjE1oAfFxAGyBwUyNC4xNbgH3B3CBwcxLjI4LjExyAdhgAgB&sclient=gws-wiz-serp


The fascinating possibilities offered by MSFS' SimPropContainer system is on my list to explore first before I plan my LOD use.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2024+SimPropContainer+LOD&client=firefox-b-1-d&hs=tSmp&sca_esv=9f8463f094060b86&biw=960&bih=469&ei=BlXuacf3CraxruEPtc-buA8&ved=0ahUKEwjHkvbGjoyUAxW2mCsGHbXnBvcQ4dUDCBE&oq=site:+www.fsdeveloper.com+MSFS+2024+SimPropContainer+LOD&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiOHNpdGU6IHd3dy5mc2RldmVsb3Blci5jb20gTVNGUyAyMDI0IFNpbVByb3BDb250YWluZXIgTE9EMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMgUQABjvBTIFEAAY7wVI1YQBUABYiF5wAHgBkAEAmAGGAaAB4QKqAQMzLjG4AQzIAQD4AQGYAgSgAu0CmAMAkgcDMy4xoAf_DLIHAzMuMbgH7QLCBwUwLjMuMcgHCIAIAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

GaryGB

 

[toprob]

The SDK documentation explains what's required:

Scenery LODs

docs.flightsimulator.com

 

[GaryGB]

The SDK documentation explains what's required:

Scenery LODs

docs.flightsimulator.com

Hi Rob:

That is certainly a helpful part of the documentation to be considered.

It was interesting to read what I believe may be new info, in the inferred disclaimer Asobo included on that web page:

"SCENERY LODs

NOTE: Due to the addition of SimPropContainers to the simulation, this page is only relevant to the legacy method of modelling scenery, ie: large-scale modelling.

In order to ensure optimal performance in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 for the models created for your add-ons (scenery, airports, aircraft, etc..) it is important to have a series of LODs created for each model. This is because levels of detail will be loaded into memory only when necessary, ie: only the data necessary to display a model will be loaded into memory at any time. To make sure this actually functions as designed by optimising performance, it is important that lower resolution LODs use less memory. Note though that the sum of the LODs in memory can still be relevant if an object is instantiated multiple times all around the player. In that case, multiple (or even all) LODs may be loaded and displayed at the same time, thus exist in memory at the same time, making optimising everything of paramount importance."


It was interesting as well, to read what i believe may be new content in the first part of this web page on SimPropContainers (linked above):

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/ms...ling/Landscape/Modeling_SimPropContainers.htm

"Overview

In Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020, airport buildings were generally comprised of large meshes with a lot of details, and as such were often very expensive in terms of framerate and memory. Their large dimensions meant that many of the smaller elements were displayed at all times, regardless of the distance to the camera or the size on screen of those elements, and for very large buildings the LOD system didn't help much since the camera could be close to one part of the building but far from another - so a large number of polygons would be computed and some memory would be used for objects that are at the opposite end of the building, and either not visible or meaningless from the user point of view."


Of note (to me, at least, and intriguing, as it was IMHO, originally not clearly explained for a lay person) ...is this content on SimPropContainers:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/ms...Editor/Objects/ProceduralInstance_Objects.htm

PROCEDURAL INSTANCE OBJECTS​

A prodecural instance object is an object element that has procedural properties and that - when spawned - will look different based on numerous factors like geographic location, weather, etc... These objects can only be used inside SimPropContainer Objects and include things like airport workers, vehicles, and passengers, and can be used to add life and colour to a scene.

When you select this object type you will be presented with a list of different procedural instance elements listed in the Objects window:

The exact number and kind of elements listed will depend on the version of Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 that you are running as well as what packages you have installed and whether you have added any custom ProceduralAssets packages.


https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/2_DevMode/Project_Editor/Asset_Types.htm#h3

ProceduralAssets​

This asset type is used for the materials and models and other base assets that are used to generate procedural assets (ie: buildings and other scenery objects that are generated randomly from a few base assets and parameters). For more information please see here:

• The Procedural Assets Editor

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/ms...ssets_Editor/The_Procedural_Assets_Editor.htm

THE PROCEDURAL ASSETS EDITOR​

COMING SOON !



IIUC, these entities will be distinct from SimPropContainer "Library" objects ?

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/2_DevMode/Project_Editor/Asset_Types.htm#h2

SimPropContainerLib​

This asset type is used for storing SimPropContainer Objects. These assets are comprised of multiple Scenery objects or SimObj objects which are collected together in a single "container" so they can be placed as a single object within The Scenery Editor. For more information, please see here:

• SimPropContainer Objects

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/ms...y_Editor/Objects/SimPropContainer_Objects.htm


Also of interest (to me) was that Google cited an excerpt from MSFS 'Release Notes' stating "New Instancing option added to the Scenery...";

https://www.google.com/search?q=sit...GHfvLMMUQ8tMDegQIKxAE&biw=960&bih=469&dpr=1.5


...when the pertinent link is clicked and the page searched:

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/msfs2024/html/1_Introduction/Release_Notes.htm

...that text: "New Instancing option added to the Scenery..." is missing.



Chris Brittain (aka "Rotornut44") asked a question on this in March 2025 at MSFSDevSupport;, curiously, he has not (yet ?) received a reply.

https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/properties-use-instancing/13660


Chris cited an SDK Doc that I had also read with great interest (and some uncertainty as to what was being inferred):

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/ms...de/Scenery_Editor/Objects/Scenery_Objects.htm

"Use Instancing
This option can be used to enable object instancing for the object being placed. This means that each time you place the object in the scene, you will be adding an "instance", and all instances will be batched and drawn in a single draw call. For an object to be instanced, it cannot be animated nor have multiple nodes - although it can use fast lights - and the property options will be limited."

Note that this is from MSFS 2024 SDK Docs "flighting".


When I first read through all info I could find on this in MSFS SDK Docs, it seemed to be alluding only to "Batching" 3D objects as in FS2Kx.

If that is the case, I am not seeing how this is true "instancing" by the MSFS run time rendering engine, and is IIUC only "batched draw calls".

https://docs.scenery.graphics/scenery/advanced-topics/instancing

https://github.com/microsoft/DirectXTK/wiki/Multistream-rendering-and-instancing

https://blender.stackexchange.com/questions/254591/instancing-objects-new-kinda-feature


It was not clear as to whether Asobo has yet implemented true DirectX-12 View Instancing:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dir...AuMbgHb8IHAzItMsgHDIAIAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/w...d3d12-id3d12graphicscommandlist-drawinstanced


IIUC, Unity already has implemented this:

https://docs.unity3d.com/2020.1/Documentation/Manual/GPUInstancing.html


A NVidia web page explains the distinctions when referring to "instancing", that IIUC, has been available since DX-9 hardware shipped.

https://developer.nvidia.com/gpugem...mplexity/chapter-3-inside-geometry-instancing


But perhaps promoting "non-legacy" SimPropContainer 3D modeling in MSFS is the 1st step towards 'phasing in' DX-12 View Instancing ?


I am generally encouraged by what I see (Asobo did previously state SimPropContainers was a work-in-progress still being developed).

GaryGB

 

[meijefs]

Hi
thank you Gary and Rob, ths is getting much clearer to me now …

My initial questions were about "what is mandatory" not to be kicked out, turned way but platforms or marketpaces when submitting a new scenery. Actually I wondered if there were elimination criterias … I do not want to be banned at my first upload !

Reading the official documentation I understood there are "general recommandations" about LODs, but nothing is "mandatory". However, of course, I'll take the time and will follow these recommandations ! I learned a lot about optimzing LODs ! Actually I LODded every assets … I still have work to do, because I'd like to remove textures from the lowest LOD of every asset, replacing them with base colors.
My poor technique with LOD is to join all the objects (except lights) from LOD1 (I keep LOD0 as it is) in blender and then decimate the new created object with a modifier until just before the point where the object turns into an orchin … actually it's not working that bad … But before doing that, I try first to decimate every cylinder I find. There might be better workflows.

I'll also try this simPropContainer although my buildings are rather small for the moment … they look like Blender "parents" to me
That would certainly Worth it, for performance considérations, and from what you've said, that might give access to brand new libraries ??

If you ever have any ideas about the other points ...

Thank you again for all your experience and all the links you provided !

 

[GaryGB]

I'll also try this simPropContainer although my buildings are rather small for the moment … they look like Blender "parents" to me
That would certainly Worth it, for performance considérations, and from what you've said, that might give access to brand new libraries ??

I am not yet very familiar with the many features available in Blender, but anticipate SimPropContainer modeling source objects may be made easier in 3D modeling software such as Blender via Parent / Child objects, and in Sketchup via Components / Groups.

If your choice of 3D modeling application is Blender, you may find more help in the FSDEV Blender forum with special features.


Dick's thread on MSFS SimPropContainer exploration / discussion 'should' involve any 3D modeling application.


But, if approached from within Blender using a Parent / Child workflow, my assumption is to open a thread in Blender sub-forum.


And, if approached from within Sketchup via Components / Groups, , my assumption is to open a thread in Sketchup sub-forum.


Perhaps it is when we are 'required' to assemble a MSFS SimPropContainer in DevMode Scenery Editor that the topic is neutral.

Good luck with your endeavors.

GaryGB

 

[toprob]

My post here was a bit brusque, sorry about that.

My optimization plan is quite flexible, and as long as I'm reducing complexity and texture use, I'm happy. My models tend to be simpler, anyway, as I come from the days of 'just slap a photo on the side of a box'. At the moment I'm putting the finishing touches to an airfield, adding some industrial buildings to the perimeter, and most have a face count between 80 and 200, as they are not designed to view up close. A single LOD stays visible, but if I can I'll add a decimate modifier in Blender for the second LOD, and then remove PBR textures for the third. Decimate doesn't work well for these simple models, as they are just big, flat planes which already have, and require, only 4 vertices, so I'll go straight to removing PBR for LOD number 2. For MSFS 2024, LODs are not required, single-LOD models will still display if simple enough. I'm sure that most platforms would accept this, I'm just not sure about the Marketplace, I never manage to get accepted there. Good luck with that. Note that a lot of simple Asobo models don't have LODs.

Sometimes I'll make a single-colour or vertex-coloured simple model for the last LOD, but my textures tend to include a number of models, so the texture overhead won't vary much with this -- it only really makes sense if a model has its own texture.

As I came from Prepar3d, I now need to remember that objects don't need to be manifold, so I can remove unseen faces, which I can easily forget.

My current project includes a couple of SimPropContainers, which are handy if I want to add complexity to the mesh.

One thing I've been doing lately is to build a model the 'old' way, with photos of features instead of actually modelling them, such as windows and doors, which becomes the second LOD, then I'll add 3D details for the first LOD. That way I can add all the detail I want, and the second and subsequent LODs will bear the brunt of the workload.

A more complex model, such as a large terminal, would be a lot different, so I'd need to change how I optimise. Luckily I'm too old for those big projects now.

 

[toprob]

One thing I forget to mention -- you should use Debug LODs and Scenery Statistics within the sim, which will give you a full picture of what needs to be optimised. With Debug LODs you can move the viewpoint around and see what 'screams' by turning red, and actually see how many vertices you should be aiming for. I find Scenery Statistics mostly useful for finding any large drawcalls in lower LODs, which can easily be fixed.

 

[pinkjr]

MSFS 2024 doesn't care about model size, texture size, texture quantity......as long as you LOD correctly (as stated above, Debug LOD is your friend). Also, don't group too many things together. LODs work better the more independent objects you have. For example, a large terminal full of small details......keep the basic structure together, separate windows with transparencies, internal terminal details....etc, then build together within the SDK environment. Use tools such as assets grouping.

 

[meijefs]

Hi, thanks for all your replies ... I managed to fixet optimize a few things
I'm going forward. A few new questions : it does'nt seem possible to reference ms/asobo planes as static decoration ? And it seems also impossible to reference ms/asobo animals (cows, ibex, chamois ...) ? Can you confirm it ?
Many thanks !

 

[meijefs]

Hi, thanks for all your replies ... I managed to fixet optimize a few things
I'm going forward. A few new questions : it does'nt seem possible to reference ms/asobo planes as static decoration ? And it seems also impossible to reference ms/asobo animals (cows, ibex, chamois ...) ? Can you confirm it ?
Many thanks !

Well to be clearer, it's more about legal considerations and not technical issues. I'm refering to the msfs marketplace agreement, section 5.9 ... When reading this section, I understand that it is not permitted to add any animals or MS/Asobo planes as static decorations in your custom scenery ...
That's really weird because in the other hand, the documentation says "A SimObject object is an object element that participates in the physics/world simulation and can belong to an airport or be placed as a scenery element outside an airport. For example, ground vehicles, marshallers, animals, etc..." ( https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Developer_Mode/Scenery_Editor/Objects/SimObj_Objects.htm)
I also cannot believe that something is prohibited only in the official marketplace and not on other platforms or in the freeware community ???
I'm a bit lost ...

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Microsoft paid a license to use those SimObjects from a 3rd party. They did not buy, or create the actual objects. So they cannot allow the use or sale via their marketplace without violating the terms of their license. If you were to place those objects and self-release or release on another website, then that would not be a concern of Microsoft.

The 3rd party could then sue you (or the hosting website) or give a 'cease and destist' order for removing the placement of those objects. This forum is not the place to discuss legalities of flightsim development. If you need clarity, then consult an attorney. A better approach is to other 3rd party objects that don't have those specific restrictions... or make your own.

 

[meijefs]

Hello,
Thank you Rhumba so much for this very clear answer. I understand better now why there are these restrictions…
For me, as a beginner, this has to remain a passion, a hobby. I just want to avoid being sued or needing an attorney, because that's something I'm not at all keen on!

I simply want to do things properly so I can continue to enjoy this passion. Unfortunately, the legal and technical constraints are very intertwined.

As a beginner, I'm simply trying to sort out what's allowed and what isn't This is what I meant when I started this topic with the word "Acceptable" :-D
It's not very intuitive when you're starting out, especially when all these assets are available in the developer mode library, and it's even less so when the license terms vary from one publishing platform to another! :-D
I've already started modeling ultralights, but … ibex and cows are going to be a real challenge because they require a level of skill I don't currently possess… and there are tons of those kinds of animals in my region (the French Alps).
Thanks a lot anyway, I'm continuing to make progress thanks to you all, and… sorry again if this is off-topic!

 

[toprob]

You have made an effort to attribute things where required, as long as you are methodical about this nobody is going to worry. Although from what you've said, in the MSFS Marketplace there are probably a few more issues to deal with, which is why I'd say hey, how likely is it that you gain access to the Marketplace, anyway? Most developers don't make it in. So you'd probably be aiming for every other online store except the marketplace. I've made a lot of airports which I'll never see in the sim on my Xbox.
One thing which I noticed in your earlier post, you've mentioned not having the skill level for some models, I would certainly recommend that you look at some sort of 3D AI tool for some of these. For example, a few minutes ago I asked Google Gemini to give me a picture of an ibex, which I then dropped into Tripo, a subscription 3D AI tool which specializes in game-ready rather than high detail models. Here is the model placed in the simulator....
Ok, so it isn't animated, and it would look better on a mountain rather than in a carpark, but you get the idea. The whole process took about 20 minutes. From memory it is about 4000 vertices, but you could go lower. Or higher. Now like you I can't imagine modelling something like this myself, although I've been modelling airports for 25 years.
My Tripo subscription costs the equivalent of US$20 a month, so now that I'm retired, I'd only have it when required. It is fun, though.

 

[meijefs]

Hi Rob,
I do not even own an Xbox Just reviewing the range of restrictions here and there …
A last question about this : adding in-game playable planes and animals from MS/Asobo is forbidden, but how about non-playable aircrafts ? Well, I'm thinking about decoration gliders and glider trailers we can find find in the dev mode's libraries and that we can see in every community scenery ? I would say it is ok ? They're not really "forefront assets" ?
About AI, wow, your ibex looks so cool. I want that ! And that is clearly a solution regarding my lazyness. I'll sure give it try. Isn't it too hard and long to get a clean topology ?

 

[meijefs]

It does the job (well exept the fact that at the time I did the screenshot, there were a bunch of buffalos in the background coming from nowhere and spawning in the alps )
(Those ibexes are about 4000 faces LOD0)

 

[toprob]

Great job with the ibex. I might do a post covering this AI tool at some point. The result depends on the image, of course, although Tripo and other 3D AI tools can accept a text prompt as well. Most of these tools recommend working from an image, though, and AI images can be ideal. You can use your own photos, and Tripo does accept multiple angles to help it define the object.
The last scenery I bought from the Marketplace certainly uses some default library objects, from the fs-base-scenery and asobo-modellib-assets libraries. However there are of course a lot of asset libraries which you don't have the right to include, so I'd stick to asobo and MS general libraries only. Third party developer libraries should not be used at all, unless they are specifically licensed for this.
I do use some default objects, but when this was my job I'd generally model everything myself, and anything which was reusable would be placed in a separate library, which grew over time. This library (for FSX and Prepar3d) was developed by one other developer, added to by me, and distributed freely for use in any scenery project. My scenery installers would run the libraries installer, to install or update them automatically. It annoys me when I download a scenery with a huge list of dependencies which need to be sourced and installed first.
There are some gliders in Microsoft libraries, which I'd certainly use. I've just looked at one, and when I place it, it lists three different libraries for the same model, which seems a bit overdone. One of the libraries is microsoft-modellib-airport-glider, which I'd take to be a usable library.