• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

FS2004 Intersection departures for AI

Messages
349
Country
unitedkingdom
I've been looking at improving runway use/occupancy at a couple of airports, Tahiti Faa'a and also Leeds (worlds apart) using fake runways for intersection departures. At Tahiti there are limited runway exits and no parallel taxiways, so AI backtracks potentially for a mile or more if 22 is in use, although Tahiti isn't busy even in real life, the Twotters and GA based there perform intersection departures all the time (I took a flight (IRL) from there to Hao and even the chartered ATR-72 didn't backtrack (Faa'a was on 04 that day).

So I created a couple of duplicate runways, one each side of the main one, that favoured Twin Turbines or below, based on runway length. Departing and arriving aircraft select the runway nearest that is suitable, so GA and Twotters etc approach and "land long", stopping close to the exits, and on departure they appear just to enter the runway and perform an intersection departure. Obviously this only works at airports with scenery textures to hide all the AFCAD-ery (sorry, ADE-ery too).

Linking these runways seems to help lock them for the departing aircraft, although sometimes you get two departures approved at the same time (fortunately one of them always backtracks as the other one departs). However landing aircraft go around even if an aircraft is occupying the other runway, because by stacking them over each other (with the shorter ones slightly to each side so as to be the runway of choice for the smaller planes) the AI is effectively sitting on two (or three) runways simultaneously.

So the system works, with caveats and things I've not yet seen in my testing!

The problem is runway naming. I can use (at Faa'a) RW04/22 as the main one for the heavies and indeed anything else, but have had to name the others 04L-22R and 04W-22W (because that one is on the side facing the sea).

Has anybody tried using other runway designators that are not announced by ATC (editing the XML if necessary)?

If I could change the fake runways to 04Q-22Q and 04P-22P for example, would FS simply turn up its toes and crash, or would it simply not enunciate the runway suffixes, meaning that aircraft are all then apparently "cleared to land runway 22" even if they're heading for 22Q. That would clear up any odd r/t.

I use other techniques to improve occupancy at busy airports, such as narrowing the AFCAD runway so that landing aircraft "clear the runway" sooner (within limits because this obviously affects hold-short nodes) opening it more quickly for arrivals and saving quite a few go-arounds (works a treat at Gatwick). This intersection departure process could, with some improvements, make some airports a little better (just ones with significant backtracking required such as Faa'a, Leeds, Malta etc.

So, after all that, the question is really whether I can use non-standard runway designators to sidestep ATC calling runways as L/R/W/C. If anyone else wants to try the intersection thing please feel free, I'm less concerned with credit for something than team input as to whether it can work.
 
snip-------------

So, after all that, the question is really whether I can use non-standard runway designators to sidestep ATC calling runways as L/R/W/C. If anyone else wants to try the intersection thing please feel free, I'm less concerned with credit for something than team input as to whether it can work.


The compiler will not work if the designator is anything other (example Q) then what is listed in the Must be.


The attribute: 'designator' has an invalid value according to its data type.

INTERNAL COMPILER ERROR: #C2582: Invalid designator tag (Q). Must be None, Left, Center, Right, A, B, or Water
 
Last edited:
Hi Jim -

Sorry for taking so long to reply here. I have been inundated with work until about 2 weeks ago (now inundated with modelling) and just lost track of things.

Do you know if A and B options (shown in the compiler error message) have a callout? Do they have "alpha" and "bravo"? (I can change this in the AFCAD and find out first hand but I'm working elsewhere at the moment trying to get a Falcon 900 to behave).

I've never heard these used in runway designators. If they are legit to compile and they don't need a callout on r/t, then it becomes possible to re-purpose these two designators. Have one side runway called A and the other B, and have Editvoicepack compile the callouts for A & B runways to be silent - then any traffic directed to the runways calls the same runway.

There are other logistical glitches that affect things, however, such as ATC losing the picture and no longer separating the traffic because of course the ATC engine is still well aware that there are 3 runways, not 1. This is mitigated by aircraft using the side runways having much shorter runway occupancy times and always coming off at the correct exits.

I have something of an obsession about runway occupancy and use whatever tricks I can get away with to improve it, narrowing the AFCAD runways for addon scenery - where it doesn't show - to get landing planes handed over to ground more quickly (at the expense of a/c holding for departure perhaps closer to the runway than they ought to be) all that kind of thing. My bugbear now is GA planes approaching at 75kt, landing short, backtracking and trying to taxy against the flow to the departure holding point when they could just drop down close to the correct exit and get out of the way.
 
Back
Top