Making Changes to CVX Vector Objects in SbuilderX for KATL

#1
Hi Gary,

I've read your post and I had a hard time understanding some of the discussion but I think I understand it now. I wanted to discuss what I've done so far and make sure I'm using tmfviewer and SbuilderX correctly. From what I understand when using the tmfviewer, I gather the Guid information based on the texture of that freeway. I right clicked on the line vector and this is the information I get after looking it up in the list of Guids you provided:

Roads_Concrete_6_Lanes_Divided_Median
473EE5CF-29DB-4DC1-B120-B53613A7BA06

Here's the screenshot:


tmfviewer.jpg



I had a hard time figuring out what all these line represent but I guess I got the right area. I decompiled it using the CVX Extractor and Append it to SbuilderX as you discussed. I was glad that I can use SbuilderX aerial image to help me with the use of the road vectors because it's very difficult to determine where all these roads are going without a map image underneath them. After viewing this, I've noticed that some of the roads and highways have been rerouted and there are a few that I need to get rid of. Here's a screenshot:



Road Vectors in SbuilderX.jpg



The roads I have highlighted in green are the ones I need to get rid of. To get rid of them, do I just simply right click and click Delete, or do I exclude them using the exclude tool at the top in SbuilderX menue. Notice the highway that goes around the west side of the airport runway 10. I assume I just add a vector to that using the correct Guid.

Ken.
 
#2
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...cts-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/#post-817563

Hi Gary,

I've read your post and I had a hard time understanding some of the discussion but I think I understand it now. I wanted to discuss what I've done so far and make sure I'm using TMFviewer and SBuilderX correctly. From what I understand when using the tmfviewer, I gather the Guid information based on the texture of that freeway. I right clicked on the line vector and this is the information I get after looking it up in the list of Guids you provided:

Roads_Concrete_6_Lanes_Divided_Median
473EE5CF-29DB-4DC1-B120-B53613A7BA06
That is a RDX *.SHP Road GUID; one must distinguish this from a FWX *.SHP Freeway Traffic GUID.

Road textures do not include 'moving' lower detail vehicles, which are placed separately via FWX Freeway Traffic vectors.

Also, be aware that FWX *.SHP Freeway Traffic vector poly-lines also use a letter to designate moving traffic 'direction'.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...cts-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/#post-817563

I had a hard time figuring out what all these line represent but I guess I got the right area. I decompiled it using the CVX Extractor and Append it to SBuilderX as you discussed.

I was glad that I can use SbuilderX aerial image to help me with the use of the road vectors because it's very difficult to determine where all these roads are going without a map image underneath them. After viewing this, I've noticed that some of the roads and highways have been rerouted and there are a few that I need to get rid of.

The roads I have highlighted in green are the ones I need to get rid of.

To get rid of them, do I just simply right click and click Delete, or do I exclude them using the exclude tool at the top in SBuilderX menue. Notice the highway that goes around the west side of the airport runway 10. I assume I just add a vector to that using the correct Guid.

Ken.
During the 'Append' of CVX vectiors from ESRI *.SHP files, one must carefully choose the 'tool-tip' attribute text and color that SBuilderX will display in the work-space for properties of the 'imported' vector objects.

I recommend using similar SDK CVX vector attribute ID text and colors in SBuilderX as FS / P3D SDK uses in TMFviewer. :pushpin:


FLX Flattens / Airport Background / Boundary *.SHP files:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Append > ESRI *.SHP... < "SBuilderX: Append Shapefile" dialog opens >

In SBuilderX: Append Shapefile dialog: Browse / Select: FLX2520.shp > click [Open] < "SBuilderX - Appending a Polygon Shapefile" dialog opens >

In "SBuilderX - Appending a Polygon Shapefile" dialog:

Under "Name or Label of Imported Polys" > "Get from this Field" pick-list" > choose "GUID"


In "SBuilderX - Appending a Polygon Shapefile" dialog:

Under "Altitude and Color of Imported Polys" > "Color (Click to change)" > click [Colored square]

< "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog opens >

In "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog > click Yellow (Light: - set RGB: 255,255,0)

In "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog > "Set Transparency": type 64 in text box to Right of slider; click [OK]



FWX Freeway Traffic *.SHP files:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Append > ESRI *.SHP... < "SBuilderX: Append Shapefile" dialog opens >

In SBuilderX: Append Shapefile dialog: Browse / Select: FWX2520.shp > click [Open] < "SBuilderX - Appending a Line Shapefile" dialog opens >

In "SBuilderX - Appending a Line Shapefile" dialog:

Under "Name or Label of Imported Lines" > "Get from this Field" pick-list" > choose "Traffic Dir"


In "SBuilderX - Appending a Line Shapefile" dialog:

Under "Altitude and Color of Imported Lines" > "Color (Click to change)" > click [Colored square]

< "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog opens >

In "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog > click Red (Light: - set RGB: 255,0,0)

In "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog > "Set Transparency": type 64 in text box to Right of slider; click [OK]



RDX Road *.SHP files:

SBuilderX Menu > File > Append > ESRI *.SHP... < "SBuilderX: Append Shapefile" dialog opens >

In SBuilderX: Append Shapefile dialog: Browse / Select: RDX2520.shp > click [Open] < "SBuilderX - Appending a Polygon Shapefile" dialog opens >

In "SBuilderX - Appending a Line Shapefile" dialog:

Under "Name or Label of Imported Lines" > "Get from this Field" pick-list" > choose "GUID"


In "SBuilderX - Appending a Line Shapefile" dialog:

Under "Altitude and Color of Imported Lines" > "Color (Click to change)" > click [Colored square]

< "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog opens >

In "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog > click Red (Dark: - set RGB: 192,0,0)

In "SBuilderX - Color and Transparency" dialog > "Set Transparency": type 255 in text box to Right of slider; click [OK]




One can use and modify Appended vector objects in SBuilderX Polygon or Line Tool mode with context menu choices and/or letter Key presses to convert Polygons to Lines, Break, Join, Insert vertex points, Delete vertex points etc.

If an isolated Poly-line segment can be safely deleted without losing other connected portions of the overall larger vector object, be certain that it is selected properly (the Poly-line turns Green with Red vertex points), then press < Delete > Key.

You will find more details on the SBuilderX Polygon or Line Tool mode special functions accessed from context menu and letter Key presses in the SBuilderX 'Help' *.CHM file via:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search Tab} query string: Polygon > click: "Working with Points, Lines and Polygons"


Before attempting to perform these tasks, you should also study a tutorial by Luis Feliz-Tirado (aka "LFT") for details on how to do this; of particular note would be information on "Roads" and "Drawing Freeway Traffic" in: :teacher:

Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643


NOTE: To represent 2-Way (aka "Bidirectional") Freeway Traffic, use (2) or more separate FWX vector poly-lines with the appropriate letter to designate intended display of traffic movement 'Direction' in FS / P3D at run time:

- one-way going from (F) the starting point of the line;

- one-way going towards (T) the starting point of the line. ;)


PS: SBuilderX can save work by reversing the sequence of vertex points in Poly-Lines: ;)


In the SBuilderX Help *.CHM file via:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search Tab} query string: Polygon > click: "Working with Points, Lines and Polygons"


Under the section "Set Width":

"Vector Lines (roads, shorelines, railroads) have a fixed width in FS that is defined in the terrain.cfg file. You can change the displayed width of these Lines in SBuilderX so that they are easier to see in your project, but this will not change the width of the terrain element in FS. You can also define the width of other types of Lines (for example, textured Lines) - just right-click on the Line segment and select Set Width... from the menu:



You can set the width of the entire Line (constant width) or of the Start and End Points. Be sure to press Set to confirm your changes. You can also reverse the direction of the Line in this dialogue"


Hope this helps a bit more. :)

GaryGB
 
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#3
Before attempting to perform these tasks, you should also study a tutorial by Luis Feliz-Tirado for details on how to do this; of particular note would be information on "Roads" and "Drawing Freeway Traffic" in: :teacher:

Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643

Hi Gary,

I've read over that tutorial and found it very interesting. Of course, this airport was for the St. Barth, TFFJ that's near St. Marteen. I find it interesting that he picked this airport because it has a sloping runway. At the time this tutorial was written, I don't think a slopping runway was possible but I was wondering that if a slopping runway is now possible. I started a project following this tutorial using the SbuilderX to create the polygons for this airport, and finally got it to work pretty good. I did not do the sand shore that surrounds the island. I just created an exclusion polygon, an hydro polygon, the roads on one end of the hill where pilots have to make steep approaches, and hole in the hydro polygon to make the island show through. One thing that was interesting to me is that the entire FS world is made up of land, and there's only water where a hydro polygon has been drawn. But I always thought that the lands were a polygon, and they were drawn over the water. I think I've always interpreted it as water covering the entire FS world and the lands were polys drawn over them. I had to compile it several times because I had to figure out how to make the airport runway at the same height as the terrain. It would either be below or above the flattened terrain. So, I decided to open ADE and check the elevation of the airport runway, and it was 48.999 feet, and I'm assuming that's above sea level. So, I entered that to the "Set Altitude" box, of course had to convert that to meters which is 14.9 meters, and that seemed to have fixed the height problem. The tutorial says that flattened polygons can be sloped but since the airport runway derives from ADE, is it possible to slope that runway along the sloped terrain? If not, I guess it would have to be done in Sketchup.

There's one thing I want to make sure I understand clearly. In the "Set Altitude," the value that's entered, is that in reference to MSL or AGL? Also, is it possible for me to change the unit of altitude to "feet" in SbuilderX?

Ken.
 
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#4
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818029

Hi Gary,

I've read over that tutorial and found it very interesting. Of course, this airport was for the St. Barth, TFFJ that's near St. Marteen. I find it interesting that he picked this airport because it has a sloping runway. At the time this tutorial was written, I don't think a slopping runway was possible but I was wondering that if a sloping runway is now possible. I started a project following this tutorial using the SbuilderX to create the polygons for this airport, and finally got it to work pretty good. I did not do the sand shore that surrounds the island. I just created an exclusion polygon, an hydro polygon, the roads on one end of the hill where pilots have to make steep approaches, and hole in the hydro polygon to make the island show through. One thing that was interesting to me is that the entire FS world is made up of land, and there's only water where a hydro polygon has been drawn. But I always thought that the lands were a polygon, and they were drawn over the water. I think I've always interpreted it as water covering the entire FS world and the lands were polys drawn over them. I had to compile it several times because I had to figure out how to make the airport runway at the same height as the terrain. It would either be below or above the flattened terrain. So, I decided to open ADE and check the elevation of the airport runway, and it was 48.999 feet, and I'm assuming that's above sea level. So, I entered that to the "Set Altitude" box, of course had to convert that to meters which is 14.9 meters, and that seemed to have fixed the height problem. The tutorial says that flattened polygons can be sloped but since the airport runway derives from ADE, is it possible to slope that runway along the sloped terrain? If not, I guess it would have to be done in Sketchup.
ADE RWYs are 'level' flattens textured only on the top, so all SimObjects navigating across them are forced up onto their top.

FS' BGLComp XML-derived RWYs are always rendered 'level' in FS at run time to accommodate AI / Ground Vehicle Traffic.

If you don't require compatibility for such Traffic at airports being made only for personal use on one's own computer, you can make a custom sloped RWY with ex: Sketchup as a G-Poly, or use a default land class or custom photo-real textured terrain area with an underlying CVX vector sloped flatten.

Then just use ADE to create a "Start Location" at each end of a custom RWY, and use a Taxi-'Path' with an appropriate 'surface' type for the proper aircraft "GroundRoll" on that RWY. :idea:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ath-what-is-the-difference.439386/post-764740

https://scruffyduck.screenstepslive...l/200252-setting-taxi-link-default-properties

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818029

There's one thing I want to make sure I understand clearly. In the "Set Altitude," the value that's entered, is that in reference to MSL or AGL?

AMSL in Meters is the default SDK units required by most FS airport and terrain utilities. :pushpin:


https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818029

Also, is it possible for me to change the unit of altitude to "feet" in SbuilderX?

Ken.

To quote SBuilderX author Luis Sa':

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/airport-on-3-foot-plateau.9069/post-59701

Hello,

In SBuilderX units of measurements are meters. You must give the polygon the altitude of the airport. You can use the Real altitude seen on airport charts or you can take the altitude from the sim.

1 feet = 0.3048 meters

Kind Regards,

Luis
GaryGB
 
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#5
Hi Gary,

So it still applies today, even from 2007. The problem I have with a level runway and placing the AB flatten polygon at the same altitude is that it causes a 70 or 80 foot. plateau on the east side.


St. Barth.jpg



In the real world, there is no plateau there, but the runway ends right there on the beach. Actually, the runway on the west side, runway 10, is at an elevation of 88 feet. MSL and the east side, runway 28, is 17feet. MSL. Now, if I place the AB flatten polygon at 0 meters as it was from the beginning, the runway will be about 50 feet above the terrain, or the AB flatten polygon. When looking at the runway from this view, it appears that it's much higher than 70 or 80 feet, but the runway is only about 48 feet wide, in ADE. But the real runway is 60 feet wide.


Here's my work that I created in SbuilderX:

SbuilderX Polys 1.jpg


SbuilderX Polys 2.jpg




This one is a closer view of the airport:

SbuilderX Polys 3.jpg



If I leave the AB flatten polygon at 0 meters, and I thinking that's where it supposed to be, the east side will be correct with no plateau. But the runway will be about 50 feet above this polygon, and the only way to fix that is to set the airport runway altitude at the same level as the AB flattened polygon I created in SbuilderX. But that cannot be correct because this will effect AI traffic as well as the nav aids. The runway altitude in ADE is supposed to be correct. So, the only next alternative is to place the water polygon to near the same altitude as the AB flatten polygon and runway altitude, which is 52.8 feet MSL. So, would I be correct here? Once I have a better understanding of how they're related, maybe I'll get it right. But I just need to have a better understanding of how they're related.

Ken.
 
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#6
Hi Ken:

FS default RWYs created by ADE or other FS utilities are compiled from BGLComp-XML source code, and are always 'level'.

Thus, they will always have a 'flat' surface that will utilize a single assigned Altitude along their entire length and width.

AI / Ground Vehicle Traffic requires a 'flat' surface that is 'level' (parallel to FS' 3D world model 'Geoid surface') in that Area.


FS default RWY surfaces are always perpendicular to a Radial line drawn from FS' 3D world 'center' to the 'Earth surface'.



Figure 7: Diagram showing the WGS-84, local origin, and camera axes.

http://www.adamszofran.com/ConferenceTalks/GDC2006/pdf


CAVEAT: A custom "sloped" RWY is NOT compatible with a default "flat" and 'level' RWY, or AI / Ground Vehicle Traffic. :alert:



"Sloped" RWYs / Taxiways / Aprons etc. can be made as textured FS terrain mesh modified by CVX vector ABP 'sloped flattens'.

Alternatively, "Sloped" RWYs / Taxiways / Aprons etc. can be made via a textured 3D model with an attached "Platform"


I suggest you 3D model in Sketchup the intended "sloped" RWY as a textured section of local terrain, and export a *.KMZ

1.) Import a copy of that *.KMZ into MCX

a.) Output a "FSX sloped flatten" BGL.

2.) Import another copy of that *.KMZ into MCX, and:

a.) Re-size textures to "Powers of 2" and convert to *.DDS format, over-writing originals in \Texture output folder path

b.) Use MCX Attached Objects Editor "AutoPlatform tool" to attach a "Platform" with the required RWY surface type

c.) Configure Material Properties for surface attribute display

d.) Add a Z-Bias Material Function as is done with a 'flat' G-Poly (if applicable for texture mapping onto a 'sloped' surface)

e.) Output as a "FSX scenery" BGL to the paired local \Scenery folder (under the same top folder with the \Texture folder)


3.) In ADE, Right-click to Add > "Other Start Location" in a airport-type BGLComp XML BGL for RWYs 10 and 28.

a.) Add a Taxi-'Path' with a 'surface' type for the proper aircraft "GroundRoll" on the entire length and width of that RWY.

b.) Compile and output that custom airport BGL to the paired local \Scenery folder cited above containing the other BGLs.


Let me know how this process works for you. :)

GaryGB
 

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#7
Hi Gary,

It appears that I'm not doing something right when following Luis's tutorial because if you look at the photos of his final results, there is no plateau and the runway blends smoothly right with the beach and at the same altitude just as it should be.


67.JPG




The photo below is from top of the hill on the west side:

68.JPG


He did a good job, and this is the result I'm trying to get. After posting my previous post, I tried to raise the water level to the same level as the AB Airport Polygon, which is about 15 meters, or about 49 feet, as it indicates in the sim. Everything looked just right, but I got to thinking about the idea of raising that water polygon so that there will be no plateau but raising it would place the water above sea level. That would not be correct. When I put the sim in slew mode and place the aircraft on the water, the elevation was about 50 feet, almost the some as the airport elevation, and I knew this was not going to be correct. When I went out to where the edge of my polygon was drawn, there was a 50 foot drop on the rest of the water, which was at 0 feet, which is what it's supposed to be. The elevation of the water around my island was 50 feet MSL, and it should be 0 feet. So, I place the water polygon back to 0 in the Set Altitude box. I placed the AB Airport polygon at 15 meters, or about 49 feet, which would be the flatten airport boundary. I could lower the AB Airport polygon in SbuilderX to near sea level, but that would place the runway 50 feet above the airport poly, and lowering the runway just to make it lay correctly on my AB airport polygon, which is near 0 feet, would not be the correct way to do it. So, from what I understand, I need to place the water polygon at 0 meters and the AB Flatten polygon set to 15 meters, so that the runway lays perfectly on polygon. But the issue is with the plateau off the beach. I drew my beach using the polygon since it is variable with different widths and this was my result:


St.Barth.jpg




I was able to slope the beach, one side being at sea level and the other side being at 15 meters, but the slope is still way too excessive. When you look at the results of Luis's work from his tutorial, you see that the beach goes smoothly out into the water and it barely slopes, and apparently he did this without sloping the runway. So, I should get the same result if I do it correctly. I've attached my SbuilderX project. Maybe you can see where I did something wrong. Eventually, I'll try the sloping runway in Sketchup but I like to learn how to do this correctly. By they way, you'll see that it has 2 exclude polygons next the AB airport flatten polygon, and I don't understand his reason for those, but that's what he showed in his tutorial. I don't know if they're having some effect or not. I'll delete them and see what happens.

Ken.
 

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#8
Hi Ken:

I believe you may find answers to your questions pending further review and self-study of the above LFT tutorial.;)

My free time is limited, so I would not be able to walk through the various tests of concept you describe above.


If you prefer making your test TFFJ airport with a default 'level' BGLComp RWY object, you must integrate it into the terrain a few Feet above the beach that slopes down to the ocean water Altitude (...which of course must be kept at sea level = 0 Meters AMSL).

This will keep the lowest RWY East end closest to the beach from 'floating' above ground.

That terrain configuration may potentially be at variance with the FS default, and the opposite RWY end will inevitably be inset into the hillside significantly, with abrupt slopes on its West end and North and South sides.


BTW: LFT describes how to assign variable Altitude to CVX vector polygon vertex points in the above tutorial.

Thus, you may wish to make test version of TFFJ with a sloped RWY as a custom CVX vector object, or as as a 3D object in Sketchup ...as I suggested above. :idea:


While this LFT tutorial is a very good means of learning scenery building, IIRC, we must keep in mind that the original impetus for this phase of your learning exercise, was to prepare for creating the multi-level scenery content at KATL, which continues to be the topic that was the basis for this thread.

I would be more inclined to allocate some of my limited available time to specific inquiries regarding your KATL project when you are ready to proceed further with that topical focus in this thread.

Keep up the good work. :cool:

GaryGB
 
#9
Hi Ken:

My free time is limited, so I would not be able to walk through the various tests of concept you describe above.
That's okay if your time is limited. But I do want to understand how Luis went about making his airport runway lay evenly with the beach on the east side. What altitude setting did he use for his AB airport polygon, a slopped one or a constant altitude?

If you prefer making your test TFFJ airport with a default 'level' BGLComp RWY object, you must integrate it into the terrain a few Feet above the beach that slopes down to the ocean water Altitude (...which of course must be kept at sea level = 0 Meters AMSL).

This will keep the lowest RWY East end closest to the beach from 'floating' above ground.
Let me be sure I understand correctly. Are you saying to lower the runway so that the east side is level with the beach? I've thought of that but that will mean I have to lower the AB airport flattened polygon to about 5 meters as well as the default runway in ADE, and doing this will place the airport below what it should be, which is about 15 meters MSL.

That terrain configuration may potentially be at variance with the FS default, and the opposite RWY end will inevitably be inset into the hillside significantly, with abrupt slopes on its West end and North and South sides.
Yes, that's what I'm saying, if you're referring to what I've just said above.

Thus, you may wish to make test version of TFFJ with a sloped RWY as a custom CVX vector object, or as as a 3D object in Sketchup ...as I suggested above. :idea:
Yes, I plan to make a test version with a sloped runway. But I wanted to understand how Luis set his polygon altitudes so that my project looks like the photo in his tutorial.

While this LFT tutorial is a very good means of learning scenery building, IIRC, we must keep in mind that the original impetus for this phase of your learning exercise, was to prepare for creating the multi-level scenery content at KATL, which continues to be the topic that was the basis for this thread.

I would be more inclined to allocate some of my limited available time to specific inquiries regarding your KATL project when you are ready to proceed further with that topical focus in this thread.
I haven't forgotten about it and I still plan to go back on that project. I'm going to go over the tutorial again, and maybe start over. I probably overlooked something.

Oh by the way, is it a requirement that I use the QMID or LOD he discussed in his tutorial? I haven't been using it and would that cause an issue like what we've discussed?

Ken.
 
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#10
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818283

...I do want to understand how Luis went about making his airport runway lay evenly with the beach on the east side. What altitude setting did he use for his AB airport polygon, a slopped one or a constant altitude?


Let me be sure I understand correctly. Are you saying to lower the runway so that the east side is level with the beach? I've thought of that but that will mean I have to lower the AB airport flattened polygon to about 5 meters as well as the default runway in ADE, and doing this will place the airport below what it should be, which is about 15 meters MSL.


I wanted to understand how Luis set his polygon altitudes so that my project looks like the photo in his tutorial.
As LFT stated in his tutorial 'Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X':

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643


"Here, we shall draw numerous airport bounds polygons with different properties:

1552109288205.png



"As usual, once the polygon is drawn, assign the desired property:

1552109061484.png



In this case, the polygon will only flatten the ground and exclude autogen. There is another polygon, slightly larger, drawn over it, that displays a grass mask, and a couple of others that remove autogen only, particularly on the approach to the airport, where the FS X extremely large trees should not appear:

1552109092072.png



"Any polygon that flattens must always have an altitude value:

1552108363850.png


But, the polygons that only exclude autogen or draw a mask do not need an altitude value.

There are a few problems:

- Flight Simulator cannot handle sloping runways, so airport flattens must always have a uniform height in game. For many situations, this means that some sort of plateau effect will appear as the flatten modifies the surrounding terrain mesh. Nothing to be done for the moment, except to patiently wait for the next version of the game where sloping runways will hopefully be allowed;

- in this case, the flatten is close to the water's edge and will raise the level of the water, creating a sloping effect within the sea. This is an old problem and existed in previous versions of FS. It can be solved by extending the coastline a greater distance from the flatten, at the loss of accuracy, or simply by accepting this limitation for the moment, and hoping that future versions of FS will prevent flattens from affecting water height;

- in addition, the proximity of hills on the left of this flatten will modify their appearance in game. In reality, the hills slope gently down to the runway, that itself slopes gently down to the sea. The uniform height flatten will generate a sharp cliff at the edge of the hills, thus preventing a realistic re-construction of the terrain. The possibility of sloping runways would solve this problem."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice LFT applied a Constant Altitude value to vertex points for the TFFJ ABP with Flatten / Exclude Autogen attributes :pushpin:

'Most' FS developers do this for a default 'level' BGLXComp-type RWY object that is compatible with AI / Ground Traffic.

As already discussed above, you have the option to make a custom RWY by methods other than BGLComp ...that is 'sloped'.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818283

Oh by the way, is it a requirement that I use the QMID or LOD he discussed in his tutorial? I haven't been using it and would that cause an issue like what we've discussed?

Ken.
Please explain more clearly what you mean by:

* "is it a requirement that I use the QMID or LOD he discussed in his tutorial? "

...and:

" I haven't been using it and would that cause an issue like what we've discussed?"

GaryGB
 
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#11
Please explain more clearly what you mean by:

* "is it a requirement that I use the QMID or LOD he discussed in his tutorial? "

...and:

" I haven't been using it and would that cause an issue like what we've discussed?"
Hi Gary,

Sorry for the delay, I was about to forget to reply to your questions. Well, at the beginning of his tutorial, LFT discussed some things about QMID and LOD. I recall you talking about QMID and LOD but never understood what you meant by them. But from what I understand now, and I guess I'm understanding this correctly, they are just grids lines that appear in the display. I was just wondering if it was necessary to use these grid line. What exactly is the purpose for using these QMID and LOD grid lines?

Ken.
 
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#12
Hi Gary,

I do have one quick question. There's a section in Luis's tutorial that discusses Excluding the Default Terrain. I was doing these polygons one step at a time to see how they would show up in the simulator. Well, I drew an exclude polygon around the island, just as it's shown in his tutorial, and selected "exclude all terrain items," as instructed by Luis. I compiled it and placed the cvx st. barth bgl file in FSX Addon Scenery/scenery folder. When I loaded the sim, the island was still there. Why is the island still there? I thought the Exclude was supposed to exclude the island, and it was for the default island. I was wondering if I did something wrong because I expected only to see nothing but water all around, and with of course, the runway

Ken.
 
#13
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818415

Hi Gary,

Sorry for the delay, I was about to forget to reply to your questions. Well, at the beginning of his tutorial, LFT discussed some things about QMID and LOD. I recall you talking about QMID and LOD but never understood what you meant by them. But from what I understand now, and I guess I'm understanding this correctly, they are just grids lines that appear in the display. I was just wondering if it was necessary to use these grid line. What exactly is the purpose for using these QMID and LOD grid lines?

Ken.
In FireFox browser - when viewing the above cited *.HTM 'long web page' tutorial by LFT:

'Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X':

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643

FireFox Menu Edit > Find in this page > query string in field at bottom Left: Grid, click "down arrow" to view all hits


In SBuilderX:

SBuilderX Menu > Help > {Search} Tab > query string: Grid > click [List Topics] button > click all listed items to view all hits

GaryGB
 
#14
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818416

Hi Gary,

I do have one quick question. There's a section in Luis's tutorial that discusses Excluding the Default Terrain. I was doing these polygons one step at a time to see how they would show up in the simulator. Well, I drew an exclude polygon around the island, just as it's shown in his tutorial, and selected "exclude all terrain items," as instructed by Luis. I compiled it and placed the cvx st. barth bgl file in FSX Addon Scenery/scenery folder. When I loaded the sim, the island was still there. Why is the island still there? I thought the Exclude was supposed to exclude the island, and it was for the default island. I was wondering if I did something wrong because I expected only to see nothing but water all around, and with of course, the runway

Ken.
Do NOT put your custom project BGLs into [FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery.

Always create a new top folder with a \Scenery sub-folder for add-on BGLs; link to it via FS Scenery Library GUI "Add Area"

Be certain that new 'Area' is positioned ABOVE any default scenery Area listed in FS Scenery Library GUI stack of Area layers.

GaryGB
 
#15
Do NOT put your custom project BGLs into [FSX install path]\Addon Scenery\Scenery.

Always create a new top folder with a \Scenery sub-folder for add-on BGLs; link to it via FS Scenery Library GUI "Add Area"

Be certain that new 'Area' is positioned ABOVE any default scenery Area listed in FS Scenery Library GUI stack of Area layers.

Hi Gary,

That's where I had the bgl file in the beginning but I went ahead and placed it in that Addon Scenery\scenery folder because it showed an image indicating that's where Luis had his bgl files saved to in the section, "Creating a New Project." I'll go ahead and move the bgl file back to the folder that I had named St. Barths, and had created a Scenery folder and put the file there. Yes, it was above the default area layers in the Scenery Library. But that didn't make any difference. The island still shows. From my understanding, Luis did say that default FS terrain is made with the land, or underlying terrain. When the ocean is created, it's created using Hydro Polygons, which cover the underlying terrain. When I look at it that way, then excluding the island would not exclude that part of the terrain, since it would have to be chopped off so to speak. If that's true, what was the purpose for excluding the island? That's what I'm confused about.

Ken.
 
#16
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818416

Hi Gary,

I do have one quick question. There's a section in Luis's tutorial that discusses Excluding the Default Terrain. I was doing these polygons one step at a time to see how they would show up in the simulator. Well, I drew an exclude polygon around the island, just as it's shown in his tutorial, and selected "exclude all terrain items," as instructed by Luis. I compiled it and placed the cvx st. barth bgl file in FSX Addon Scenery/scenery folder. When I loaded the sim, the island was still there. Why is the island still there? I thought the Exclude was supposed to exclude the island, and it was for the default island. I was wondering if I did something wrong because I expected only to see nothing but water all around, and with of course, the runway

Ken.
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...ects-in-sbuilderx-for-katl.444877/post-818493

Hi Gary,

That's where I had the bgl file in the beginning but I went ahead and placed it in that Addon Scenery\scenery folder because it showed an image indicating that's where Luis had his bgl files saved to in the section, "Creating a New Project." I'll go ahead and move the bgl file back to the folder that I had named St. Barths, and had created a Scenery folder and put the file there. Yes, it was above the default area layers in the Scenery Library. But that didn't make any difference. The island still shows. From my understanding, Luis did say that default FS terrain is made with the land, or underlying terrain. When the ocean is created, it's created using Hydro Polygons, which cover the underlying terrain. When I look at it that way, then excluding the island would not exclude that part of the terrain, since it would have to be chopped off so to speak. If that's true, what was the purpose for excluding the island? That's what I'm confused about.

Ken.
Hi Ken:

A CVX vector exclude tagged with the "Exclude all terrain items" attribute does not "exclude" terrain mesh compiled by SDK Resample.

A CVX vector exclude tagged with the "Exclude all terrain items" attribute is intended for- and only capable of- excluding CVX vector "terrain"-type objects compiled by SDK SHP2VEC. :pushpin:

BTW: CVX vector objects compiled. by SDK SHP2VEC are all categorically "terrain"-type objects ...as discussed here:

https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/world/terrain/terrain_overview.html#The Shp2Vec Tool


I would venture to say that on your FS installation, when your custom CVX vector BGL attached above is loaded from a Area layer positioned above FS default scenery in the Scenery Library GUI, you are not seeing duplicate CVX vector content displayed loading from the default FS scenery from:

[FSX install path]\Scenery\0303\scenery\cvx3125.bgl

...because the excludes in your custom CVX vector BGL are working properly. ;)


If by any chance you are seeing duplicate CVX vector content, please let me know, and post screen shots of the problem areas.


FYI: When you create a "hole" in the Hydro polygons. as LFT states in:

'Terrain Design for Flight Simulator X':

https://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fsxsd&DLID=141643


"This is how it looks without the background image:

1552378467270.png


The island, that is, the land showing through the water, will display the underlying land class values."


FYI: "Land class values" means land class terrain textures (mapped by other BGLs) onto the underlying terrain mesh, both of which have been allowed to 'show through to the top' by the hole made in the Hydro polygons (...which would have otherwise superimposed a "Water Flatten" and instead displayed a "Water Class" texture onto the terrain mesh at 0 Meters AMSL).


GaryGB
 
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