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MSFS Material Colors not Displaying in MSFS

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I'm feeling really bad now about starting something that initiated Arno's downloading grief. Sorry Arno, because I am not now seeing the brilliant white instead of material colors on my objects. Have no idea what was causing this when I started this thread, and am unaware of any steps taken to solve it. I see what Dick is getting at about the looping. While it wasn't encountered in the most recent update, some previous updates required restarting the download a number of times due to the looping.
 

rhumbaflappy

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I'm feeling really bad now about starting something that initiated Arno's downloading grief. Sorry Arno, because I am not now seeing the brilliant white instead of material colors on my objects. Have no idea what was causing this when I started this thread, and am unaware of any steps taken to solve it. I see what Dick is getting at about the looping. While it wasn't encountered in the most recent update, some previous updates required restarting the download a number of times due to the looping.
I was successful in forcing the download. I used ProtonVPN... they have a free version with only 3 choices of a network. But it worked. I found it could be used to get the problem package downloaded, and then deactivate it to resume full speed on other parts. I don't have to exit the sim to do this. Just activate and deactivate the VPN as needed.
 

=rk=

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Hi,

Could it be that the parts that are distorted are not tiled, but that the uv mapping is still shifted from zero, so for example uv values between 3 and 4 instead of between 0 and 1? That would give the same issues.
This would probably be the case, considering slight changes trigger the distortion and other developers have reported that changing the texture size cures it, although it does not work in my case.

in fact, I carefully went through a model-test scenario, where I ran my updated model through a build operation, after each edit, to check projections. Once I’d added the life rings, the texture distorted and even though I’d saved my previous build, it too had become distorted.

Likely my own mistake managing successive builds, textures, etc, still discouraging.

The question remains how to substantiate UV values in the Sketchup interface and how to set them between zero and one.
 

=rk=

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But can the hotfix fix the frozen download for people that gave up trying to update and just went ahead to reinstall instead?

ms store.JPG


2 1/2 hours of clicking that little Ouroboros symbol and thinking how aptly it represents Microsoft inserting foot into mouth. For a while I felt like my manual dexterity was increasing, but now I am just thanking my creator that Microsoft has wisely placed such barriers against the less dedicated, because when I finally release something to the public, I want to be able to imagine them saying, "this is what I went through all of that for?"
 
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MSFS is storing the UV coordinates in an optimized (e.g. less memory usage) format after the package tool has processed the glTF files. But because a half precision floating point number is used, this also means that for UV values that are outside of hte normal 0 - 1 range, you very quickly start to see the effect of less precision. That is what is causing the distortion and jitter. The only way to solve this is to not tile a texture to many times, so that the UV coordinates keep small values. But SketchUp indeed makes it too easy to file a texture many times. It is something the developer will have to do different when making the model.

Hi,

Could it be that the parts that are distorted are not tiled, but that the uv mapping is still shifted from zero, so for example uv values between 3 and 4 instead of between 0 and 1? That would give the same issues.

This would probably be the case, considering slight changes trigger the distortion and other developers have reported that changing the texture size cures it, although it does not work in my case.

in fact, I carefully went through a model-test scenario, where I ran my updated model through a build operation, after each edit, to check projections. Once I’d added the life rings, the texture distorted and even though I’d saved my previous build, it too had become distorted.

Likely my own mistake managing successive builds, textures, etc, still discouraging.

The question remains how to substantiate UV values in the Sketchup interface and how to set them between zero and one.

https://blog.nobel-joergensen.com/2...nerated-mesh-in-unity-part-2-with-uv-mapping/

"UV Coordinates explained

UV mapping refers to the way each 3D surface is mapped to a 2D texture. Each vertex contain a set of UV coordinates, where (0.0, 0.0) refers to the lower left corner of the texture and (1.0, 1.0) refers to the upper right corner of the texture. If the UV coordinates is outside the 0.0 to 1.0 range, the coordinates are either clamped or the texture is repeated (dependent of the texture import setting in Unity).


The same way that each vertex is associated with a normal, each vertex is also associated with UV coordinates. This means that sometimes you need to duplicate the same vertex due to UV mapping."


In Sketchup, as we import a "Texture", we attach it to the lower Left corner, and scale / attach it to the upper Right corner of a Face.

IIUC, when the texture image is not scaled to attach at the upper Right corner, of a Face, it "auto-tiles" repeatedly as identical smaller texture images.


If we scale a mapped texture image to a size for each "tile", we may merge 1 -or more- adjacent Tiles into a 1-piece texture on a Face.

Such mapped texture images can be made "Unique".

When a mapped texture is made "Unique", all of the image pixels outside the UV map area of the Face are trimmed off and deleted from that Face ...and the derived "Unique" texture image mapped onto it.

Note: IIUC, at this point, the UV Map vertex coordinates are reset to (0.0, 0.0), (1.0, 1.0) because the mapped texture itself has been resized. :wizard:

So AFAIK, the 'slack' that Sketchup notoriously cuts the end user initially with UV mapping, is actually compensated for via "Make Unique Texture" because Sketchup cuts off the 'slack' of unused texture image pixels outside the mapped area defined by the UV vertices on a Face. :pushpin:


Next, we can make the mapped texture images of 2 -or more- such adjacent co-planar Faces "Unique".


Then we may use "Combine Textures" to make a 1-piece texture image of 2 -or-more- Faces by merging them, and removing interposed Edges.


If we use a mapped texture image or "Color" in several adjacent (co-planar) Faces on one side of a object, we may also use Combine Textures.

Sketchup converts a selected Color mapped onto a Face into texture images via "Make Unique Texture."

Sketchup 'Colors' may be "Combined" with texture images also ...via Combine Textures to derive a 1-piece texture image.


BTW: The default Sketchup internal graphics engine is not as high fidelity as one might wish, so IMHO, it is best to substitute ImageMagick via: :alert:



GaryGB
 
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arno

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Is the download looping... that is stalling and repeating on the same packet over and over?

At least it is finished by now. I had some failed packages that I had to download again.
 

arno

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I'm feeling really bad now about starting something that initiated Arno's downloading grief.

It's not your fault, only Microsoft is to blame for making a sim that can't run if your version is a bit older and that takes ages up update afterwards.

I guess I should start the sim more often, but I only do so when I want to test things.
 

=rk=

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"UV Coordinates explained

UV mapping refers to the way each 3D surface is mapped to a 2D texture. Each vertex contain a set of UV coordinates, where (0.0, 0.0) refers to the lower left corner of the texture and (1.0, 1.0) refers to the upper right corner of the texture. If the UV coordinates is outside the 0.0 to 1.0 range, the coordinates are either clamped or the texture is repeated (dependent of the texture import setting in Unity).


GaryGB
Thank you for your explanation and what looks like an elegant solution. The idea of unwrapping a ships hull into unique textures and then stitching them back together, seems daunting. I feel like I would have to concentrate on detail areas and fill the field with tiles and that I'll probably be learning more about it very soon.
Also, I am not able to make the logical extension how one projected model exceeds the zero-1 range, while one maintains it. It's true that this technique, might be just as practical for reviving broken models, as would be unwinding my texture evolutions to an under 1 UV offset, but there still remains the question of what causes it in the first place.

Not to seem to pedantic, but I never start with one corner of the texture at one corner of a polygon. I start with a photograph of my model, say a ship. I copy parts for detail and re paste those into empty areas of the image. Then I find images of other details, life preservers, cranes, etc and those get pasted to areas in the image. As I model, I add other things. Then I place a component on or near the texture and project away.

Sansha1hao.JPG
Sansha1_Hao.jpg
Sansha1_Hao_LM.jpg


To me, this seems extremely arbitrary, when UV offsets have to be in a range of a single whole number, that some of this component instancing, rotating, projecting, actually works, the technique results in very functional and visually convincing models, so I am hoping there is a single action, or state I can maintain, in order to keep using the projection technique and not have to resort to tiled swatches, that require render tricks to give them depth.
 
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Thank you for your explanation and what looks like an elegant solution. The idea of unwrapping a ships hull into unique textures and then stitching them back together, seems daunting. I feel like I would have to concentrate on detail areas and fill the field with tiles and that I'll probably be learning more about it very soon.
Also, I am not able to make the logical extension how one projected model exceeds the zero-1 range, while one maintains it. It's true that this technique, might be just as practical for reviving broken models, as would be unwinding my texture evolutions to an under 1 UV offset, but there still remains the question of what causes it in the first place.

Not to seem to pedantic, but I never start with one corner of the texture at one corner of a polygon. I start with a photograph of my model, say a ship. I copy parts for detail and re paste those into empty areas of the image. Then I find images of other details, life preservers, cranes, etc and those get pasted to areas in the image. As I model, I add other things. Then I place a component on or near the texture and project away.

View attachment 76969View attachment 76970View attachment 76972

To me, this seems extremely arbitrary, when UV offsets have to be in a range of a single whole number, that some of this component instancing, rotating, projecting, actually works, the technique results in very functional and visually convincing models, so I am hoping there is a single action, or state I can maintain, in order to keep using the projection technique and not have to resort to tiled swatches, that require render tricks to give them depth.

AFAIK, Sketchup has relatively uncomplicated ways to map a flat 2D texture image onto a multi-planar / multi-angular set of Faces on a 3D model:




https://blog.sketchup.com/article/wrapping-image-around-cylinder

https://www.dummies.com/programming...d-texture-method-of-adding-texture-to-curves/





NOTE: Sketchup "Projection" may not work properly- or at all- unless a texture image source Face and target 3D model Face ...are both at Layer 0


In these examples by Taff Goch, the term "Projection" is used:

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/mo...23d8740930d7f9/Terrain-Texture-Tutorial?hl=en



In the above examples by Taff Goch, and this one by "Josh", "Projection" also brings to mind a Z-Axis technique cited by "TIG" ...called a "Drape":

https://sketchucation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=323&t=40481




NOTE: Sketchup "Drape" 'may' still work even if the texture image source Face and target 3D model Face ...are NOT both at Layer 0.


GaryGB
 
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=rk=

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I am pretty sure the first video, is the one that taught me this technique. I've made adjustments, like the trick of making components from the small things to be textured, like the life ring, then placing an instance directly on the projection polygon and then deleting it after the projection is completed. This procedure seems like ample opportunity to offset UV beyond the zero-one range, however the distortion happens to single curved models, like ship hulls that have been isolated for testing distortion limits.

So the search continues and thanks for posting the relevant sources, someone smarter will come along and put all this together and post, "oh ya, just make sure the upper left pixel is opaque," or "the image sources must not only be in a power of 2, but also power of 4," or something else simple and fundamental like that, hopefully.

Eager to get back to testing, the simulation simulator update is at about 76% finally and progressing smoothly, if you can call waiting 3 days to play your video game, every month or so when it updates, smooth. This update replaced everything in my install, the folders had been already empty when I formalized the state in the software manager to uninstall, to get around the looping update, only to encounter the looping fresh install. Curious to see what remains the same as before, smooth updating probably, at least.
 

arno

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OK, back to the original question. I tested an object with only colors in MSFS and it shows up fine. Below is a test COLLADA object that only uses an orange and black color, no textures. I exported it to glTF and added it to my MSFS test scenery project. As you see the colors are shown fine.

So I suspect that when colors show up as white, there is another material attribute set that modifies how the object is rendered.

1631946729991.png
 

=rk=

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I can confirm, a green "vertex" colored box, shows up as green with no special settings, but this seemed to not be the case before. The model had been vertex colored and I used a version in FSX:SE and P3Dv4, the MSFS conversion was only white, as shown above.

polygon color green.JPG
 
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As you see the colors are shown fine.
As I stated in my apology, they show fine for me also now. Sorry that I don't know what sort of MCX setting (or MSFS update) caused my problem. Colors in the gltf conversion remain too light compared to the originals in the mdl, but I guess it's the gltf format that's the issue since MCX shows the same as MSFS.
 

arno

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Colors in the gltf conversion remain too light compared to the originals in the mdl, but I guess it's the gltf format that's the issue since MCX shows the same as MSFS.

I think that's the difference between a PBR shader and the FSX shader.
 
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