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FSXA Mountain Range disappears as I get close to it??

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Hey all,

Ive been making mountains and suddenly, doing a very large mountain range, I get problems with it disappearing when I get close to it. Its fine from a mile or 3 away, but as I get closer, the tiles begin disappearing.

It is evidently an LOD issue. One version that I tried 10X zoom, it didnt show up. I tried at 14X and it looks lovely. I have tried 13X or 12X and it looked fair. But they disappear as I get closer.

I am thinking that it is a size issue. I am thinking that I need to do it in sections. But how would one map several area's together like a quilt? Or does the SBuilderX automatically do this via tiles systems when compiling? Is there a limit?

I looked up LOD's in the SBuilderX and nothing is listed via the search in the help manual.

I would be grateful for any input on this.


Bill
LHC
 
I recompiled the imagery this afternoon and it acted proper. I chose 14x as my distance/resolution and it worked out well.
 
Hi Bill, usually I use 14 with resolution of 17 is one of the best resolutions for small portions but you can work with 13x or 12x zoom as well depending on photoreal size. Just do not exceed 500kb because many tiles leave the scenery heavy, when I want larger maps, I simply decrease the 13x zoom with the resolution of tiles by 15x. Note the size of the grids, smaller size will be the amount of tiles.
Regards.
Otavio.

sbuilderx.jpg
 
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802036

Hey all,

Ive been making mountains and suddenly, doing a very large mountain range, I get problems with it disappearing when I get close to it. Its fine from a mile or 3 away, but as I get closer, the tiles begin disappearing.

It is evidently an LOD issue. One version that I tried 10X zoom, it didn't show up. I tried at 14X and it looks lovely. I have tried 13X or 12X and it looked fair. But they disappear as I get closer.

Hi Bill:

Since this would likely be best discussed in a separate thread within this sub-forum, I'll quote myself in this context:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/phoenix-mountains.442981/post-802084

...if this was a case of terrain textures for your custom photo-real aerial imagery disappearing and/or default terrain textures being substituted at farther distances from your custom area, probably the "LOD=x" value in your SDK Resample *.INF file needs to be set to "6,13" so that higher LODs are 'forced' to be created during compilation. ;)

Normally "6,Auto" would be used if you had downloaded aerial imagery at a higher resolution than 4.8 Meters / Pixel, so you likely had downloaded a lower zoom level (resolution) to keep the SBuilderX working set and source file size smaller.


BTW: PTC ('lossy') compression applied by SDK Resample using a *.INF parameter value of "CompressionQuality = 85" reduces BGL size by~40% with little loss of visual quality; use of ('non-lossy') LZW compression in TIFF format source files may reduce BGL file size even further. :idea:


However, your lower resolution custom photo-real aerial imagery source would actually be artificially configured as LOD-13 MIPMAPs to fool the rendering engine into displaying them over the default FSX terrain textures.


[EDITED]

NOTE: The base resolution of the FSX / P3D default land class scenery is already LOD-15 (QMID 17) or ~1.2 Meters / Pixel, so one would typically wish to make custom photo-real aerial imagery using downloaded aerial imagery tiles or other source data imagery files at a Zoom level of 15 or higher (ex: 15 / 16 / 17 / 18).

CAVEAT: Use Zoom levels ex: 18 / 19 / 20 / 21 only if such resolutions are actually available in 'true' optical resolutions, and not just "digitally magnified" at resolutions above Zoom level 17).

[END_EDIT]


FYI: You can see the actual resolution of your compiled custom photo-real aerial imagery BGL using SDK TMFViewer:

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/photoreal-lod-priority-issue.437050/post-740928



A reference table for the terrain grid and resolution is here (I have not yet added a column to correlate 'Zoom' levels with terrain grid quads):

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/flattens.425495/page-2

GaryGB
 
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https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802036

I am thinking that it is a size issue. I am thinking that I need to do it in sections. But how would one map several area's together like a quilt? Or does the SBuilderX automatically do this via tiles systems when compiling? Is there a limit?

I looked up LOD's in the SBuilderX and nothing is listed via the search in the help manual.

I would be grateful for any input on this.


Bill
LHC

Hi Bill:

Generally speaking, if one wishes to create terrain mesh and/or aerial imagery at high resolutions, one must limit the amount of source data in the working set being processed and output by SDK Resample to a BGL size of no more than 2 GB.

FYI: One can create a multi-source *.INF file that defines more than (1) data source file to be submitted to SDK Resample.

In such cases, areas of Geographic coverage for each source data file are individually specified by *.INF parameter values.

Alternatively, if Geo-referenced TIFF (aka "GeoTIFF") source file formats are used, a simpler *.INF file structure may be used, and SDK Resample will automatically read the Geographic data that it requires from the GeoTIFF file itself.

SDK Resample then processes the source data (...and internally eliminates redundant source data if areas of coverage 'overlap').


https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#TheResampleTool


BTW: There are some work-arounds up to allow perhaps up to a 40% larger than 2 GB amount of source data in the working set being processed, provided that final output by SDK Resample is a BGL with no more than 2 GB size (otherwise Resample will either reject the processing session with an error message, or will simply fail with no error message).

Those work-arounds involve use of TIFF (or preferably Geo-referenced TIFF aka "GeoTIFF") source file formats compressed with ('non-lossy') LZW compression; this results in up to a 3x size reduction of 'some' types of source data submitted to Resample.

During processing of LZW compressed source data, however, Resample must internally de-compress, process, then re-compress the data, so compilation times typically may run between 2 to 4 times as long as data NOT LZW compressed. :alert:

The MS Game Studios - ACES' implementation of PTC ('lossy') compression by SDK Resample can also reduce output BGL file size formats independent of whether TIFF source files are compressed with ('non-lossy') LZW compression.

For example:

* A *.INF parameter value of "CompressionQuality = 85" reduces BGL size by ~40% ...with little loss of visual quality;

* A *.INF parameter value of "CompressionQuality = 100" reduces BGL size by ~0% ...with no perceptible loss of visual quality


Ultimately, if one intends to provide terrain mesh and/or aerial imagery BGLs that cover much larger areas, or if one wishes to provide such scenery at higher resolutions than can be processed in a single SDK Resample session and/or in a single (max. 2-GB) BGL, one may need to output multiple BGLs from SDK Resample.

Adjacent Geographic coverage areas may be manually compiled as separate SDK Resample processing sessions.

Alternatively, a more complex multi-source *.INF file can then be used to direct SDK Resample to output multiple BGLs, with one for each adjacent Geographic coverage area ...via 'batched' SDK Resample processing sessions.

On a practical basis, if one will not be flying "Low-and-Slow" over terrain mesh, only lower LODs will be seen at 'typical' in-flight altitudes. so lower resolution source data (ex: 10 to 30 Meters / Pixel) may be used.

9.6 to 38.2 Meters / Pixel = LODs 12 to 10 for terrain mesh

However, with aerial imagery, one must 'force' output of LOD-13 or higher in order to achieve display over default scenery.

Depending on how large an area one wishes to cover in ones scenery, this 'may' fit in a single BGL.


But if one will be flying "Low-and-Slow" over terrain mesh, higher LODs might be seen at those in-flight altitudes. so higher resolution source data (ex: 30 CM to 5 Meters / Pixel) may be used.

30 CM to 5 Meters / Pixel = LODs 17 to 13 (~Zoom levels 17 to 13 for aerial imagery)

Depending on how large an area one wishes to cover in ones scenery, this 'may' likely require multiple BGLs. ;)


Hope this helps explain a bit more, ones options for use of SDK Resample. :)

GaryGB
 
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A thousand thanks Gary for the quick course in this.

Some quick questions off of your above information;

* When doing multiple areas, you state that it can overlap and the system knows how to handle it? Is there a proper way to do edge to edge or do you just go for it? I guess there is no way to 'adjust' the size of the tile once you get it created in SBX? For instance, one might be able to create tiles more exacting when they butt up against each other by editing them in Photoshop. (Just thinking out loud. I am totally new to this).

* I notice now that on 'big' scenery area's, on 'mountains' in particular, that I am getting patches coming through. I think this is intermittent that they show up, as I do not remember them being there. Could this be because the area was so huge on a single data sheet?
fglmb;df.JPG


rgejrpg.JPG


I also have these oddities appearing as a light blue color, like water. They are near a overlap zone. I tried to make the area's pure black where the bitmaps overlap. For some odd reason, I get multiple blue zones. I might redo the area's today to try to get rid of this issue. But... Why is this happening if I do not appear to have these in the bitmaps? Very odd. See below.

ryhretrwe.JPG


goiergh.JPG
 
https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802118

A thousand thanks Gary for the quick course in this.

Some quick questions off of your above information;

* When doing multiple areas, you state that it can overlap and the system knows how to handle it?

Yes, if provided with correct and precise Geo-referencing info for each source in a multi-source *.INF file, SDK Resample does this automatically.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802118

Is there a proper way to do edge to edge or do you just go for it?

Yes; GeoTIFF files allow SDK Resample to read their available source data coverage, discard redundant data where there are overlaps, then compose a single aerial imagery set of MIPMAP tiles (with Geographic placement info) inside the BGL.

If a more complex multi-source *.INF is used, one can also use Night and Seasonal variants of the original DAY image, and also use Blend and Water masks ...all packaged inside the same BGL when compiled by SDK Resample. ;)

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802118

I guess there is no way to 'adjust' the size of the tile once you get it created in SBX?

Indeed, once a aerial imagery "Map" image is created and output by SBuilderX within:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work sub-folder

...one should not change its total Rows and/or Columns, as this would change its Geo-referencing and the effective 'size' / 'shape' of the aerial imagery pixels when draped onto the ground.

However, one can use more than one aerial imagery source image in a multi-source *.INF file to cover a larger area inside a single BGL.

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802118

For instance, one might be able to create tiles more exacting when they butt up against each other by editing them in Photoshop. (Just thinking out loud. I am totally new to this).

If one has downloaded or otherwise acquired aerial imagery for the desired area, SDK Resample will seamlessly stitch all aerial imagery source images submitted in a multi-source *.INF file to cover a larger area inside a single BGL.

Alternatively, it can output several BGLs based on parameter values for Geographic extents or LODs etc. within a submitted *.INF file.


https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802118

* I notice now that on 'big' scenery area's, on 'mountains' in particular, that I am getting patches coming through. I think this is intermittent that they show up, as I do not remember them being there. Could this be because the area was so huge on a single data sheet?

View attachment 42749

View attachment 42750

That is most likely the underlying default terrain mesh and land class textures popping up through your custom terrain mesh.

The way to fix this is changing SDK Resample output of your terrain mesh BGL using a *.INF parameter value of:

* LOD=4,Auto (rather than only LOD-6,Auto ...as I originally suggested above).

https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/t...pears-as-i-get-close-to-it.443095/post-802118

I also have these oddities appearing as a light blue color, like water. They are near a overlap zone. I tried to make the area's pure black where the bitmaps overlap. For some odd reason, I get multiple blue zones. I might redo the area's today to try to get rid of this issue. But... Why is this happening if I do not appear to have these in the bitmaps? Very odd. See below.

View attachment 42751

View attachment 42752

Those are most likely the infamous "Blue Slivers" most often seen when there is an abrupt transition in elevation surfaces from flat to sloped terrain, and where one has only a limited span of terrain mesh LODs loaded into FS.

The way to fix this is changing SDK Resample output of your terrain mesh BGL using a *.INF parameter value of:

* LOD=4,Auto (rather than only LOD-6,Auto ...as I originally suggested above).

NOTE: This fills in gaps in the terrain mesh LODs between default and custom terrain mesh BGLs so that continuous ground surfaces can be displayed with MIPMAP textures draped onto them, and one will thus not see the "Blue" void of un-textured space in the FS 3D world model.


Hope this helps resolve the reported issues in your current test project. :)

GaryGB
 
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Those are most likely the infamous "Blue Slivers" most often seen when there is an abrupt transition in elevation surfaces from flat to sloped terrain, and where one has only a limited span of terrain mesh LODs loaded into FS.

The way to fix this is changing SDK Resample output of your terrain mesh BGL using a *.INF parameter value of:

* LOD=4,Auto (rather than only LOD-6,Auto ...as I originally suggested above).

NOTE: This fills in gaps in the terrain mesh LODs between default and custom terrain mesh BGLs so that continuous ground surfaces can be displayed with MIPMAP textures draped onto them, and one will not be seeing the "Blue" void of un-textured space in the FS 3D world model.

I need to find out where this INF is... I didnt find one in the SDK Resample folder, but I found some that look like samples or examples.
 
Hi Bill:

If you used SBuilderX to compile a 'Map' of aerial imagery displayed and selected within the SBuilderX work-space, the *.INF file will be in the same output sub-folder as the 1-piece source data L*.BMP file:

[SBuilderX install path]\Tools\Work

...under a name such as ex: Photo01.inf, which would have been created at the time you compiled to a ex: Photo01.BGL. ;)

GaryGB
 
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