MSFS I cannot get an AI flight plan to work

[jgarnold]

I can remember 15 years ago at first not quite understanding what was required etc to produce a working AI flight plan for FSX (there were 'obstacles' such as some aircraft could not be used for AI flights etc) but eventually got a 'handle' on its working and produced many working traffic files for FSX.

Now with MSFS I have produced an ai traffic file, compiled it and build the package for the community folder (which aifp does when selecting File >Mount FS2020 Traffic Files).
The 'package'/folder created by aifp contain is named Custom Ai Traffic which contains subfolder Scenery which contains subfolder World which contains subfolder Traffic which contains the traffic.bgl (I have only stated this to ensure the reader will know that the package structure is correct).

I start MSFS and select the departure airport (stock airport CAP3) and set the time to 5 minutes before the ai flight is set for departure. I never see the aircraft parked at the departure airport.

Am I looking at the departure airport or the wrong time? Anything else I need to be aware of?

I am wondering if I need to set up the ai aircraft as how does the traffic file know where to obtain (link to) the selected aircraft? The airports are identified by the ICAO but what of the aircraft?

I have attached the traffic bgl file.

 

[pbeeby]

Hi,

...if I am not mistaken, Traffic generated from the ( FSX ) BGL file format is currently broken and has been since SU10.
What this means is that assuming that all the elements of your associated traffic file are correct, MSFS will read the BGL traffic file and should still spawn the traffic at the correct location.
The problem is that ' Timings ' for the Aircraft flight plans for departures and arrivals is broken. In short, you may see the movement of Aircraft, however they will not be following the timings set out in the flight plan.

To check whether you have everything set up as it should be regarding your compiled BGL Traffic File. From it's location within the MSFS Community folder, drag the BGL file onto the AIFP Icon on your desk top.
Once AIFP has opened, you should see all of the details of the BGL file, read and displayed within the 3 windows of the planner in front of you. Provided none of the TEXT is RED, AIFP has verified that all attributes within the traffic file are correct.

Hope this helps.

Pete.

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Pete.

I think I remember reading something like that (not working correctly since SU10). Thanks too for pointing out that errors are highlighted in AIFP in red. I haven't seen anything in red so all must be ok.

It agree that timings' could be 'broken' (as you point out) as using a flight pl;an (.bgl) from a scenery download from RK I could get the ai flight plans to 'sort of' work in that I could 'see' his aircraft (part of his scenery) at the departure airport (ie spawned) and have also 'seen' one depart but earlier than the sceheduled departure time (according to a disassembled traffic.bgl file).

That doesn't though explain why I can't even get aircraft in my flight plans to spawn.

Could it be that when I bulk load aircraft (with UI NOT ticked) many of the aircraft in the list have Asobo Air Trafiic as part of their name (eg Cessna C172SP Asobo Air Traffic) and I seem to remember when using FSX for aircraft to work in AI flight plans they need to have certain 'parameters' set up in the aircraft.cfg (or other) file? I seem to remember creating versions of downloaded aircraft in FSX which I setup for ai flights.

I am using local time everywhere and activity level of 1% (in the flight plan) which I assume should result in the flight running (the MSFS options settings for AI flights is 100%).

Yes I also have displayed the contents of a traffic bgl file but using File > Open Traffic file(.bgl) which would be the same as dragging the bgl file onto the AIFP icon.

I wonder if Asobo is aware of the problem and if it is on the 'list of things to fix'?

[added a few minutes later]
I just created an ai flight plan using the TBM930 Asobo Air Traffic 00 aircraft and placed myself at the departure airport a few minutes before scheduled departure and it wasn't spawned there. I used Little Navmap (map) and noticed the aircraft at the other airport and it started to move and then takeoff at the scheduled departure time from the other airport. The time I started my flight was a few minutes before the scheduled departure from that same airport. I will do some more 'experimenting',
The image below shows my aircraft parked at CAP3 and the TBM 930 on its way from CYVR to CAP3. Once again I ask the question 'will any selected aircraft work in an ai flight plan or only those setup for ai flights?

 

[jgarnold]

I think that I am correct about some aircraft work in ai flight plans and some not.
I just found in one arcraft's aircraft.cfg file, there is a parameter named canbeusedbyAItraffic (in the aerosoft DHC6 it is set to 0) ALTHOUGH this parameter is missing from the aircraft.cfg in most aircraft. Does anyone know how MSFS 'treats' a paramater which is missing (ie set to 0 or 1)?

I have also created another ai flight plan using the same airports (from CAP3 to CYVR and return) but using the Cessna172 and I could get the aircraft to spawn (this time at CAP3 which is what the ai flight plan is set to do) but it NEVER departs. I changed the 'current timer' a few times and each time the ai aicraft would disappear and then reappear a few seconds later. This is crazy.

 

[pbeeby]

Yes I agree, the ongoing situation with MSFS Custom AI Traffic ( offline ) is very frustrating indeed.
Of course, there is no guarantee that this will be fixed in SU13 either, as we now know their focus is predominantly elsewhere now.

 

[=rk=]

I hope you will agree that the knowledge to employ LNM unlocks a vast wealth of information. Setting up a small test flight plan within the range of LNM coverage and then applying different airplanes to that flight plan, will allow you to resolve many uncertainties.

canbeusedbyAItraffic (in the aerosoft DHC6 it is set to 0) ALTHOUGH this parameter is missing from the aircraft.cfg in most aircraft. Does anyone know how MSFS 'treats' a paramater which is missing (ie set to 0 or 1)?

Zero means "no" and this only affects MSFS generated AI flights and squatter aircraft. The unspecified parameter defaults to 1.

I could get the aircraft to spawn (this time at CAP3 which is what the ai flight plan is set to do) but it NEVER departs.

If an aircraft spawns, then that portion of the flight plan is correct. If a spawned plane refuses to taxi, that is a defective airport.bgl, most likely a broken taxi path. Flight plans affect only spawning and destination and to some extent timing, for any given aircraft. Aircraft names have no effect on AI functionality. In many ways AI traffic is simpler than imagined.

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Rick

I was thinking that if taxiways were either non existent or 'broken' then a spawned ai aircraft would never depart but wondered about that theory as I was using stock MSFA airports for my test (depart CAP3 arrive CYVR and thinking that all stock airports would be 'complete') and then I noticed an ai aircraft (from my ai flight plan) departed CYHC and I tracked it using Little Navmap until it started to land at CAP3 and then watched from the ground and noticed that after it landed and slowed to a stop it just disappeared and then considered that maybe there was no taxiway for it.

That's my theory anyway. I chose CAP3 as I know of it and know that it is a small airport with very limited parking and so easy to view if my ai aircraft spawns or not.

Not sure if it is possible to determine if taxiways exist or not - maybe turning on taxi 'ribbon'? I know that airports can be displayed showing location of runways and parking 'ramps' but is there anything which will display taxiways?

Hey I thought that Kilroy was an 'Aussie thing' as I remember sketching 'him' while at school (here in Australia) long before television opened up the world to me..

 

[jgarnold]

Just looked closer in with Little Napmap and it seems to show taxiways (see below) so maybe they are 'broken'. I did notice though that a return taxiway after landing on RWY 30 is half way back down the runway. Would the AI 'engine' be smart enough to turn the just landed ai aircraft around and taxi back down the runway until it gets to the closest taxiway?

 

[jgarnold]

Crazy

I created 4 flight plans using 4 different aircraft (see image below) and started a flight at the departure airport a few minutes before the first flight was due (each different aircraft's flight was 1 minute apart).
I could see 4 aircraft at different parking places (a good start) HOWEVER the first two were NOT what I selected for their flight plans.

Here is what I programmed and what I got -
programmed actual
Flight 1 Asobo XCub Cessna 172 SP Asobo Air Traffic 03
Flight 2 Blackbird DHC-2 Beaver Wheels Generic Piston Single Engine Asobo 00
flight 3 C172SP Asobo Air Traffic 02 Cessna C172 SP Asobo Air Traffic 02 - a match - wow!
flight 4 TBM930 Asobo Air Traffic 02 TBM930 Asobo air traffic 02 - a match - wow!

IT seems to me IMHO that unless an aircraft which has 'Air Traffic' in its 'name' there will be a substitution. Is this what I should know? I do remember when using FSX for aircraft to work in AI flights theye had to contain certain characteristics which I can't remember although I do remember 'creating' some 'AI' aircraft for use in ai flight plans.

Also none departed from the airport however that could be because of broken taxiways.

Also when restarted a flight from the 'destination' airport a few minutes after the scheduled departure (for the return leg) and checked in LittleNavMap expecting to see the 4 aircraft enroute they were positioned at the original airport as it they had never departed.

Crazy.

 

[jgarnold]

I have found in my backup external drive for FSX 'stuff' a program named AI Aircraft editor written by Martin Gossmann - The Owl's Nest with reference to ARNO Gerretsen (a name I remember well with use of ADE) (ie The last addition is the viewer component from Arno Gerretsen. You can now see the selected model and texture of both FS9 and FSX aircraft. Thank you very much, Arno!)

It's description is given as -
AI Aircraft Editor 2.2.2 is a tool to view, edit & validate FS9, FSX & P3D aircraft.
It allows easy renumbering, modification & deletion of [fltsim.x] sections, modification of FS9/FSX wingspans and the aircraft type in the air file.

I can't remember what parameters in what .cfg files required modification and/or deletion for the aircraft to work as an AI aircraft but have 10 different AI aircraft (folders) for FSX plus special 'Effects' for AI aircraft.

I shouldn't imagine it would work with MSFS aircraft as they are different from FSX aircraft. I will try and work out exactly what was required to modify a flyable aircraft for use as an AI aircraft which could be near impossible as that was 15 + years ago. Maybe FSX aircraft can be converted for use in MSFS? Using msfsLegacyImporter.exe?

 

[=rk=]

It seems a bit disjointed; taxiways, to allowed AI aircraft, I get confused easily. It seems like there are way too many variables. Kilroy was a slogan originally painted in conspicuous places behind enemy lines after D-day. After it became popular it's usage spread.

I cannot speak to taxiways, pretty sure LNM shows them but ADE definitely does. Anyway I would eliminate all variables. I would make two airports that I know work, or use one I had tested with ADE and make another within 200 miles of it so I can watch everything on LNM. Another thing about the time, you keep trying to start some sort of event, even though you know there is an issue with start times. Myself, I can never tell the difference between local and Zulu anyway, so "start times" are out for me anyway. I focus on repetition. I figure out how long it takes planes to get between airports, and then I set up the flight plan so a plane is always flying. I'll add planes, one flying, one landed, one taking off. This way, I only have to focus on interval, not whether it is noon somewhere. This is the formula I use for timings, but the first thing is getting a test plane.

A plane that I know works between my test airports at the interval that works for the distance. Once I have a route that I know works and a plane that I know works, then I would experiment with changing the aircraft name, or whatever. Right now, all you know is that some planes work, some don't, some have names, some don't, some park where you want them to, some don't. Any number of factors could be affecting results and I see no practical way of eliminating all the variables.

As to the aircraft.cfg, there's nothing hidden, there is only the single switch canbeusedforaitraffic=1 and that is it.

I am telling you I've made dozens of AI, multiple flight plans for the custom AI and default planes and you are making it harder than it needs to be. Start simple and work up. 1 plan, 1 plane, then try moving a leg of the plan, still works? Yes good move on. Stopped working? Figure out why and so on. Once you know all that works, start adding planes.

 

[jgarnold]

Thanks Rick.

Thanks for the info on the origin of Kilroy.

I know there are variables which will affect AI traffic such as parking needs have a radius of at least half the wingspan on the aircraft for an AI aircraft to go there and maybe also the taxiway width needs to be at least the width of the undercarriage - not sure about that without reading up.

I have been trying to make it as easy as I can. In my last 'test' I used two small airports which are only 20 minutes flight time apart and only used the 4 different aircraft to see if some worked and others don't.

All this started when I tried to create AI floatplane flights for the various water airports I have created (as I did very successfully in FSX) and either could not get any aircraft to 'appear' at a parking dock OR got some 'unusual' floatplane to 'appear' and so also considered that my flight plan was faulty - now I (think I) know that MSFS substitutes other aircraft if the one in the plan will not work.

I had no issues in FSX and after reading someone stating that AI hasn't been working (well?) since SU10 I wanted to prove that one way or another.

I will also use your Subi Reef airport to test my AI flight plans using the CH-7 and I know they will work and then also use the DHC2 wheeled Beaver (and expect another aircraft to be substituted) - one airport (which works and one aircraft which works and go from there.

It is though my desire to create working AI flight plans at my water airports and so getting ai flight plans to work using land airports and aircraft with wheels may not help but only prove that I am creating flight plans correctly.

BTW I NEVER use UTC time. Just enter the times which are local times.

flightsim.to has many downloads available for 'fixes to airports for AI traffic' (eg remove extraneous hold short nodes, all gates connected to taxiways, ai parkling fix) so who is to know just how many airports may cause problems with AI. Anyway I will use Subi Reef to 'hone my skills' with AIFP and double check my water airports to ensure the parking is large enough (radius) and that they are correctly connected to the taxiways and no extraneous hold short nodes exist.

I am now fast coming to the conclusion that AI flight plans don't work on water (ie with water airports) as I can get ai aircraft to appear/display before scheduled departure at land airports but not with water airports.

Thanks for your help.

 

[jgarnold]

In an effort to determine what if anything I am doing wrong to prevent ai aircraft to display at my WATER airports (I can get them to display at land airports) I decided to download some other water airports (created by others) and install in the community folder water airports including some created by mazermart at Tofino and Victoria BC Canada (extremely detailed and nice they are).

Firstly they ALL work in MSFS and are selectable to fly from.

Using (AIFP) airports (menu) > Find/Collect Airports > Addon Airports FS2020 only some of my installed water airports are found and displayed.

I think I need to put this desire of mine to get ai flights to work with water airports to bed. There seems to be 'issues' which I don't understand.