• Which the release of FS2020 we see an explosition of activity on the forun and of course we are very happy to see this. But having all questions about FS2020 in one forum becomes a bit messy. So therefore we would like to ask you all to use the following guidelines when posting your questions:

    • Tag FS2020 specific questions with the MSFS2020 tag.
    • Questions about making 3D assets can be posted in the 3D asset design forum. Either post them in the subforum of the modelling tool you use or in the general forum if they are general.
    • Questions about aircraft design can be posted in the Aircraft design forum
    • Questions about airport design can be posted in the FS2020 airport design forum. Once airport development tools have been updated for FS2020 you can post tool speciifc questions in the subforums of those tools as well of course.
    • Questions about terrain design can be posted in the FS2020 terrain design forum.
    • Questions about SimConnect can be posted in the SimConnect forum.

    Any other question that is not specific to an aspect of development or tool can be posted in the General chat forum.

    By following these guidelines we make sure that the forums remain easy to read for everybody and also that the right people can find your post to answer it.

Parenting object changes object shape

Steve Jones

Steve Jones

Messages
29
Country
unitedstates
I've been seeing this for a while now and for the life of me cannot figure out why it is happening. Attaching a wheel to the main gear changes the shape of the wheel slightly. I am sure it has something to do with transforms.

EDIT: 3ds Max 2012
 
Ok I found a procedure that works. Applying a XForm Reset to the main gear fixes this problem. But then I lose the pivot point I painstakingly set because the angle is very strange for this UAV aircraft. So what I do is before I reset the xform of the main gear I create dummy object and align its pivot point to the main gear pivot point. I use the toolbar Align tool and select Pivot Point and uncheck the x,y,z position and check the x,y,z orientation boxes. I also uncheck the scale x,y,z. Now I apply the xform reset on the main gear. Finally I select the main gear (which should already be selected anyway) and do another align. This time I align its pivot point to the dummy object that has the saved pivot point orientation before the xform reset.

Now when I parent the wheel to the main gear it does not change to an oblong shape like before. I guess I need to get used to using xform reset.

EDIT: I should add that after the xform reset on the mirrored part the normals are flipped so I then apply the Normal modifier and check the Flip checkbox. I collapse the stack to "bake" in the changes and then copy the pivot point back from the dummy object.
 
Last edited:
That's exactly what others do when we forget to Reset XForm a complex piece of geometry before mapping or animating - I've been there too! Reset XForm allows Gmax or 3ds Max to get an accurate handle on the geometry after umpteen operations to form an object.
 
Thanks for the confirmation hairyspin. As a fairly new modeler sometimes I scratch my head thinking "wait, there has to be a better way to do this" because I couldn't possibly be the first one to run into this problem. Why don't they make it easier or even automatic? Seems mirroring geometry is a guaranteed xform reset procedure. When mirroring the one gear to the other side it does work including mirroring the pivot point along with its orientation but the geometry is always normal flipped. So I have to xform reset and apply a Normal modifier and flip it back. But then the pivot point is trashed. So my new procedure is to copy the pivot first.
 
Groannn... The Mirror toolbar button is something we all have to learn too - we don't use it for the reason you have discovered. Use a Mirror modifier instead. (see other posts in that thread for more tips, like getting rid of the Mirror button) Bil Leaming's Mirror tut for animated objects is here
 
hairyspin said:
Groannn... The Mirror toolbar button is something we all have to learn too - we don't use it for the reason you have discovered. Use a Mirror modifier instead. (see other posts in that thread for more tips, like getting rid of the Mirror button) Bil Leaming's Mirror tut for animated objects is here
Click to expand...
I looked at this modifier but I couldn't get the mirror correct no matter what axis selection I picked. But now after reading the article you linked I see that its a different procedure that I hadn't thought of. You clone the part including the child parts like flaps, ailerons, wheels and such, then you mirror the new cloned part by applying the Mirror modifier. Brilliant! But it does make me wonder if the normals get flipped to which you would have to apply the xform reset anyway.

It is good to know I am not going crazy when seeing the mirroring issues from the toolbar Mirror button.

I am glad to have found an active forum with professional and kind people.
 
Ok great. For grins I saved off my progress and tried mirroring with the modifier in a renamed .max file. Cloning and mirroring and re-positioning the part using the negative value of the left side worked great... but... the pivot point of the cloned part was not mirrored, it remained the same as the source part. Not sure why that happened but for me that defeats the purpose because it is the pivot point of the source part I must be able to mirror so that I do not have to painstakingly re-set it manually. I wish you could click on an object, select the World ref. coordinates and view its absolute orientation. If you could do this I would just manually type in the cloned pivot point orientation. Oh well, saving off the pivot point to a dummy object works.
 
Last edited:
Steve Jones said:
I wish you could click on an object, select the World ref. coordinates and view its absolute orientation.
Click to expand...

Of course you can. Click on the object, click Rotate button (or key E in Max), select World Reference Coordinate System and open the Transform Type-In box (right-click on Rotate button): the World rotation coordinates are displayed.

Steve Jones said:
Cloning and mirroring and re-positioning the part using the negative value of the left side worked great... but... the pivot point of the cloned part was not mirrored, it remained the same as the source part.
Click to expand...

Clone the part, then reposition before using Mirror modifier: the pivot follows the object across.


I've been looking for a file donated by Milviz but now gone from its original download link: this allegedly mirrors geometry, animations and mappings. It needs Max 9 or later to work so 2012 shouldn't have any problems, hopefully - I use 2008. Use at your own risk!
 

Attachments

hairyspin said:
Of course you can. Click on the object, click Rotate button (or key E in Max), select World Reference Coordinate System and open the Transform Type-In box (right-click on Rotate button): the World rotation coordinates are displayed.
Click to expand...
You have to be kidding me, I missed that. I knew about the Transform Type-in box but since I mainly adjust Local coordinates the values were always 0.

Clone the part, then reposition before using Mirror modifier: the pivot follows the object across.
Click to expand...
Ok, I will try again. I cloned, then mirrored then repositioned.

Your "mirroring button is evil" (:) ) thread link found you over there. I take it that site is another good place for this sort of discussion.
 
hairyspin said:
SOH isn't bad for modelling but FSDeveloper is by far the more active.
Click to expand...
Good to know.

With the purchased model aircraft, Predator A UAV, I am modifying to match our export version I have UV'd most objects and am working on the fuselage now. Saving the hardest for last. In another thread I asked about combining objects into a single UV layout and am almost ready to do this. But I already am anticipating questions I will have about creating the spec, bump and maybe gloss maps. On this site are these procedures discussed at any length for 3ds Max / photoshop? I have Photoshop CS3.

Aside: Unfortunately this model belongs to my company so I cannot show it (3d Model for simulator for our unreleased UAV aircraft for international customer) but suffice it so say it looks similar to the PredA. But on a more personal note I am getting interested in creating my own UAV version for FSX (I own). There is a lot to learn about modding for FSX I am sure. I see GMax references all over the place here. Do I need that software to conversions of some sort or can you go directly from Max to FSX?
 
You're using Max 2012, so you need the Prepar3D SDK from Lockheed Martin, version 1.4. This will produce FSX-compatible models from Max in a two-stage process, just like the FSX SDK for (much) earlier versions of Max. Many people use GMax because it's free and Max costs a heap of cash: if it wasn't so expensive lots more of us would use Max.

I would strongly recommend trying an export to FSX at your very earliest opportunity: export early, export often, test your work in the sim as you go along.

Search around and you'll find threads on making bump, specular and reflective maps. Photoshop CS3 will be more than ample for the job (I use CS2), but get the nVidia DDS plug-in for Photoshop since you'll need it. Any more, just ask!
 
Since the FSX SDK is stale, not in development is the Prepar3D SDK (built from FSX SDK) the carry-on project, if you will?
 
Yes, Lockheed Martin licensed the code from Microsoft and have now taken it further forward. Version 1.4 of Prepar3D is inherently FSX-compatible but the latest v2.1 is not. The FSX sdk is not stale, it's stable, lol. :rotfl:
 
hairyspin said:
Yes, Lockheed Martin licensed the code from Microsoft and have now taken it further forward. Version 1.4 of Prepar3D is inherently FSX-compatible but the latest v2.1 is not. The FSX sdk is not stale, it's stable, lol. :rotfl:
Click to expand...
Um, P3Dv2.1 is "stale" now. Current is v2.2a (v2.2 with the "hot fix" applied)... :teacher:

WRT to the Reset Xform tool, the main thing I use it for is to reset the Scale of objects. Funny thing about the scale and FSX/P3D. If the object has scale values of X:100.0 Y:100.0 Z:099.99 mouse rectangles won't work. Which is of course, only critical in a virtual cockpit, but still it's a "gottcha" that's plagued a lot of modelers over the years.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top