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P3D v4 parking plumbing

jyarddog

jyarddog

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us-washington
How can I get a returning AI to come to its parking, turn around and face out again like in the beginning.
 
It faces the direction of the parking. So if you want it to turn during parking, you have to turn the parking 180 degree. Otherwise it turns when departing.
Dan
 
No, it´s spawned in the same direction as the parking is. Only when it returns, it parks forward, then turns to before stop.
 
Is this something that changed with P3D or P3DV4 ? In FSX I have my parking spots set up this way, and while they spawn facing the correct direction, when they return to their parking spots they don't turn around until they depart.
 
That maybe a change from FSX to P3D4/5. I just remember recent work, where I had the planes facing the departing direction when parked. I then changed the direction of the parking, cause it was odd seeing them parked against the markings on the ground. So I'm pretty sure, they turn before when taxiing in and stop or are spawned in the parking direction in P3D5.
 
blaunarwal said:
That maybe a change from FSX to P3D4/5. I just remember recent work, where I had the planes facing the departing direction when parked. I then changed the direction of the parking, cause it was odd seeing them parked against the markings on the ground. So I'm pretty sure, they turn before when taxiing in and stop or are spawned in the parking direction in P3D5.
Click to expand...
They spawn in the correct direction in FSX., so that sounds the same. Are you sure they turn round on arrival in P3D ?
 
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Dick, mine do that. I have it now AI taxis out facing outwards, does its thing, comes back and rolls around to the back so it approaches the spot from the rear. I can't make the final turn too tight; AI do not like sharp turns. When it taxis out again it does turn to follow the odd apron link but does work. a bit odd looking.
Before this the plane would taxi out, do its thing, return to its spot pointing inward and stop. It would not face outwards again until its next flight OR if yo shut down the sim and start up again. Then it would be facing outwards again.
Hgschell has a link I will look into. thanx
 
I think it can be done using the 'drive-through' method if you have a large area like an apron to work with. I work with WW2 airfields where the dispersal pans or hardstandings are very small, with only one way in and out. Haven't found a solution for them yet. I've got it to where I can control which way they turn before departure, and can keep them within the pan, but I'd really like them to do that when they arrive. Good luck !
 
I am trying to have my AI START forward from their parking when activated. When activated, they push back and ignore the NONE for push back options.
I want then to go forward ( red arrow) they go in direction of green arrow. I've tried to reverse (180) the parking spot (green dot) and no joy there.

I've read the tutorial ^ and that seems to address returning aircraft. I need to know how to make the AI move forward after they've been activated.
Capture1.JPG
 
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Butch- This takes a special technique of 'plumbing'. It is complicated and lengthy. I've tried it and failed. hahahaha. I even found a tutorial on it but I messed that u p too. bwahaha. Maybe someday.

However, When you choose 'no push back', that is only telling the SIM not to show a mule doing the pushback. NOW.... If you want your ai to NOT back up before it goes forward.......... do this:

After you make your apron link and parking spot, take another BLUE node and place it JUUUUST in FRONT of the blue node that is in the center of the parking spot.... NOT in back. So- in this order... parking spot center blue node, then your new blue node, then the apron link to the taxiway. You might want to zoom in to get your new node very close.
The closer it is, the less your ai will move backwards. You can't eliminate it completely, but It will become so small it will be hard to see the backwards motion. If you haven't tried this... do so and report back. If you know this already, sorry for messing with you time here! :) :) ;) Bob
 
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Thanks for the reply. I've been scouring this site on this topic and came across "remedies" for this and I've tried emulating all the "cures" but I guess I didn't correctly do it correctly as I am still trying to sort this out.
I've collected a few screen grabs to show the situation. This is using a freeware scenery, KNSE by Jim Dhaenens (in P3D V5.3) Whiting Field FL.

The red circle is my flyable Iris T-6B Texan. The four directly in front are MAIW T6 AI's - They like to start and back up. The other aircraft were already there - Static I think.
Capture.JPG


The red circle is location of my flyable T6. When I compare this pic with the P3D overheads view is the static aircraft. The AI aircraft are on the green circles.
I don't see any green circles for the six T6's on the front row. What's up with that?
I've tried making taxi points in front of and behind the green circles and still they back up. Just pictures of my status in P3D V5.3

Okay, using one of the already green parking spots. Whats are the steps. Blue node = taxi point? These predone parking spots don't have any blue nodes in the center.
Capture1.JPG
 
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The FSX/P3D AI engine will basically take the shortest distance from the parking spot to the runway in use. There is essentially nothing you can do about this, unless you use the 'plumbing' method, which creates separate networks for taxying out and taxying in - and you need a separate AFD (ie taxy network) for each runway. That means you must determine which version of the airfield you're going to use before you select it in the pre-flight dialogue. That, frankly, is a PITA and really not worth the effort in my opinion.

Jim's parking arrangement on this AFCAD is aimed at making sure that the arriving and departing traffic at least moves only in the allocated parking row. If you make the parking spots 'drive through' on a complex apron like Whiting, you'll find AI traffic will sometime go straight through parked traffic. The 'anti pushback node' that Bob is talking about will at least stop the unrealistic sight of aircraft pushing back that would not normally do so, but they will turn round immediately on beginning to taxy. It's not ideal, it's not realistic, but it's about the best you're going to get.
 
As a basic principle, this diagram shows how plumbing works. Of course, it gets a lot more complicated when more runways are present and more parking, but I'm sure you can see how it works.
 

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I tried the above from Tim and I can't get it to work. My fault, most likely. I wanted the ai to taxi out in the direction it is facing in parking, but return on the back side. Didn't work. may have something to do with distance from rwy.

However, if you want your ai to stop backing up so darn much, do this. Place a blue node as close to the center of the parking circle as you can. The closer it is, the less back-up. See attachment. I left my blue node hi lighted, so you can see through to the center of the parking. The ai will still back up, but so very little it will be hard to notice. Try it. I think you will be pleased at the results.

As for the plumbing I yield to Tim. ;) ( Does the senator yield? Yes the senator yields! hahaha
 

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Obviously it has to be set up to favour the primary runway (which you can specify in ADE). If, in my diagram, the sim makes 27 the primary, it will still work but on initial spawn the aircraft will face North and immediately turn round prior to taxying out. Subsequent arrivals and departures should face South (ie opposite to the direction of the parking spot). There must be only one way in and one way out, and beware intermediate turn offs that allow any alternative routing.

It’s really recommended that you try this kind of very simple layout to get the hang of it and see how it works with different wind situations. I wouldn’t try anything more complex until you’ve seen this working and got a feel for it.

To learn more, search ‘plumbing’ by Gadgets (the late - and sorely missed - Don Grovestine). He understood this stuff really well, and still found many situations where FSX would do something unexpected! If you want to learn even more about AI behaviour, look up the library of posts from ‘jvile’ (Jim Vile) who was the master of AI understanding. But beware - it’s a deep rabbit hole and you can get lost in there!

Edit: I see Guenther linked to Don's tutorial earlier in the thread (it's here). It's quite a heavy read but there is some important info in there. Ground AI behaviour is a complex subject, and it's not really adequately covered even in the MS/LM SDK documentation. I'm quite certain that there are AI behaviours that MS didn't anticipate as consequences of some of their instruction set! Note that there were considerable changes between FS9 and FSX, so references to the earlier sim may be misleading for FSX/P3D users.
 
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I’d add that, even if you create a very simple taxy network as in my diagram, the principle of ‘shortest route’ will always override what you might think of as logical. So if the runway is long, FSX/P3D’s ridiculously short landing runs may mean, for example, that backtracking and routing to parking via the departures route is chosen by the sim - which instantly invalidates your work and expectations. There are ways of dealing with this, but it quickly gets complicated.
 
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