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Refueling Drogue animation Concept (help)

kalong

kalong

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indonesia
looking animation concept for Refueling drogue.
if try to make close as reality it, quite complex. before I start this refueling drogue stuff, I need advice/ suggestion which is the best concept will be take
1. animation using bone (have no experience, special include "bone tagging" tutorial would be better)
2. individual animation (obviously can, thought this would be long way)
3. another suggestion ....

parameter would be use
1. extend / retract the drogue
2. speed vs weight of the pipe ( slower speed pipe would be slightly goes down - Osprey can made hover, it would be funny if the drogue always "up" :rotfl:)
3. turbulence (maybe not apply)
 
There would probably be a specific flight condition into which the drogue was deployed. It could not be built to withstand all possible conditions and the converse is that it would have a very narrow range of operation, beyond which it would fail. Therefore it is unlikely that it would be expected to support its own weight while hovering, for example.
 
Some other ideas for parameters:
4. Altitude on which the "drogue-provider" (tanker) is flying -------------------------since air density influences the bounciness / stability of the drogue too.
5. Is the hose already filled with fuel from a previous refueling or is it empty? - full hose has more wieght, gives a more stable behavior
6. Length of the hose deployed from its A2A refuel pod ---------------------------- longer hose, bigger swing-momentum of the hose+drogue combination
 
making additional instability parameter for me is possible, but it would make pilot user became harder to catch and maintain the drogue.
maybe I'll use weight parameter vs speed only

normal speed refueling ( don't know what speed)
8fa6133b-abca-4381-83c0-9da450201621_Full1_.jpg

slow refueling, 60 degrees of nacelles I believe, and it will minimum drogue extended.
iqYpt2j.jpg
 
Well you do as you please, but I would think the second image, with the F-35 in STOL mode and full AB, unless you have a more relable source than Gizmodo, is about as believable as this one:

x-wing-aircraft-carrier.jpg

and aerial refueling will be accomplished within the same flight conditions that F-35's are currently refueled. This video should give a decent representation:

 
Take a look over here for the speed-references Kalong:
They are testing the new hose and drogue system for the Osprey that can deploy up to about 240kts.
Click to expand...
-http://aviationintel.com/osprey-drags-the-basket/

The Osprey flying at 250 knots [not its maximum speed] could do the job effectively,”
Click to expand...
- https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-512277.html

The aerial refueling technology on the Osprey will refuel helicopters at 110 knots and fixed-wing aircraft at 220 knots, Corps developers explained.
Click to expand...
- https://www.wearethemighty.com/arti...plans-to-turn-the-mv-22-osprey-into-a-gunship

Background document on US Naval Aviation 2016 (pdf, V22 starting from page 57)
-https://marinecorpsconceptsandprograms.com/sites/default/files/files/Marine Aviation Plan 2016 FINAL.pdf

V22 information
- http://airvectors.net/avv22.html
- https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3Wkn...DP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey.html
 
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The basket on the end of the hose provides drag which keeps the hose quite rigid in calm air and minimizes bounce when in cloud or turbulent air. Altitude and airspeed have little effect on its stability. However, they have a big effect on the receiver. If you are below 250 IAS in the average fast jet you are on the back side of the drag curve which means you need more thrust if you fly slower and less if you go faster. That is known as speed instability. This makes it quite difficult to control your approach to the drogue and to maintain station when connected. If you are at high altitude you have less thrust and as you take on fuel you need more angle of attack to maintain altitude which increases induced drag. Towards the end of a long refuel you may not have enough dry thrust to stay connected. The drogue has to be pushed forward a few feet before fuel will flow and if you drop back because of lack of power you will reach a point where fuel stops flowing.
In the F-4 on a big refuel we would take on 18,000 lbs of fuel at a rate of 1250 lbs/min which meant you were flying in close formation with the tanker for about 15 minutes at minimum speed and it was tough.

In the sim it is much harder to connect and refuel than in real life, so my suggestion is to make the darn drogue rigid so that the pilot of the receiver has some chance to get the probe in the vicinity of the basket. Once in, in the real world the basket will stay on the probe as the receiver moves a bit in all directions. Now, that is the challenge for the sim modeler, never mind about the drogue stability.
Roy
 
Was thinking about this the other day, and maybe it's been discussed before, but is it possible to use the same logic used in the EH-101's hoist functionality but for refueling animation? Instead of the logic being used in a vertical way to connect to and pick up objects in the simulator, couldn't it be used horizontally to show connection between tanker and refueling aircraft?

If not that, what about the tow-plane and glider functionality?
 
jimi08 said:
Was thinking about this the other day, and maybe it's been discussed before, but is it possible to use the same logic used in the EH-101's hoist functionality but for refueling animation? Instead of the logic being used in a vertical way to connect to and pick up objects in the simulator, couldn't it be used horizontally to show connection between tanker and refueling aircraft?

If not that, what about the tow-plane and glider functionality?
Click to expand...
It is not logic, it is animation. Specific states are placed on the user aircraft, in response to keys pressed and the animations make it all look believable. Both states you describe, hoist and tow establish a very solid connection between the user vehicle and an object that is not terminated until the user presses another key, what are you simulating, a refuel probe with a Vice Grip connection? Beyond that, the animations are designed to support tow and hoist states and would have to be somehow discarded or replaced.
Using the "open/close door," trigger, Maryadi is able to initiate the refuel state and now just has to create his animation. He might have more luck defining the basket as an AI aircraft and then getting it to fly in formation with the V-22, or the refueled plane. We could throw any idea out there and probably should.
 
the reason and big problem for fuel drogue/probe refuel is at stock of"multiplayer variable". there very limited variable that work in multiplayer.
Osprey already implement more than 4 simulation for the use of door variable, which is why I controlled door from Simconnect that give me more freedom to make simulation.

I still open if there any other good idea....
 
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