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Scenery object visible range

I

Ian P

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unitedkingdom
Hi all.

While testing SODE, I have just knocked up a very quick "runway tee" landing direction indicator - which works fine (it's not animated, SODE calls different models for each direction). However, the model, made in Blender, is not visible from 2,000' overhead the field, which makes it pretty useless. Other objects, made and compiled using gmax, around it, are clearly visible. The "T" pops into view around 1,600'-1,500' AGL.

Most of the research (and searches of this forum) that I've done implies that the bounding box has "something" to do with object visible range, so I doubled that using MDL tweak in ModelConverterX and it hasn't changed a thing. Does anyone know why the visible range of the Blender objects is lower than their gmax siblings, or how one changes this?

Cheers,

Ian P.
 
Hi,

Are your GMax objects also called through SODE? I more suspect that the difference is placement via BGLComp or through SimConnect.
 
Hi Arno,

It's being called though SODE/Simconnect, but there are other objects - vehicles - that I have placed using ADE/BGLComp alongside gmax vehicles and the gmax vehicles appear before the Blender ones. I've never actively tested the distances on that, but can do so fairly easily. I just need to create a Gmax and Blender version of the same object, first.

I'll also try placing the same object using ADE and see whether that makes any difference. The only other thing I can think of might be LODs, but I'm more than a little unsure of those in Blender at the moment, so haven't really prodded at them very hard.

Edit: Playing the MDL directly using ADE, or calling it via SODE, makes no difference. The "reality bubble" for the object is almost exactly 2,000', as if you fly immediately over it at 2,000' AMSL (i.e. slightly less than that AGL) then the "T"s are visible briefly while immediately overhead them.

...fault finding continues. I'm trying size changes at present.

Cheers,

Ian P.
 
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If the objects are really the same, let's say a box, I wouldn't expect a difference between tools that made them. Would be interesting to compare the mdl files and see where the difference is.
 
In this instance, it was a truck (although the gmax version was pretty close to a box with some cylinders sticking out of it!) - I'll have to make a new object, though, because I overwrote the K2Y's MDL file with the new Blender one by mistake at some point and it'll be quicker to create a Landing Tee in gmax than it will be to go and find a backup of the K2Y. I'm usually better organised than that, which is a little embarrassing.

I think Daan's correct in that I need to bite the bullet and investigate Blender's LOD creation, which has been causing me a lot of raised eyebrows recently, because the only way I've found of making the "T" visible from 2,000' using bounding boxes and object sizes has been to make it larger than the (gmax) signal square that it's supposed to sit on top of one corner of. I can also try converting the signal square to a Blender MDL and seeing what happens if I do that. It's really simple and wouldn't take more than a couple of minutes or so to clean up the mesh.

The best thing to do now, I think, is probably to do the quick tests and create something for Arno to look at MDL wise, then get lots of caffeine and delve into the world of Blender LODs...

Thanks again.

Ian P.
 
But did you make different levels of detail? For objects with only one level the usual value is 100 and I don't think it matters much.
 
You mean me, Arno?

Code: 
(L:A to DCB,bool) 1 == if{
Yep, I did. I have a LOD_400, LOD_100 and a LOD_5 and they work fine on both my D.21 and T.5. The D.21 radial is removed in LOD_100 and replaced by a bitmap, which shows off correctly.
Code: 
 }
els{
...
Code: 
 }
 
Nope, . I meant the thread starter. For a simple scenery object I would not expect multiple lods.
 
There are no LODs in it at present, because all the tutorials I've read about LODs in Blender have required lots of code writing in the script window, involving the Blender Game Engine... I think I need to do more research - at which point I discover a "LOD" roll-out that's only visible if you set the render option to Blender Game - presumably that replaces the huge amounts of script writing? I'll find out. Anyway, the landing T is an incredibly simple model, just made to test SODE functionality, so I can easily just create a second LOD model, taking away the support post or something, and see if that helps. I just need to work out how to set it so that only one of the models is visible in the sim at a time.

However, a number of threads that I've read have linked LODs to visible range, so it's worth a go, as nothing else seems to work. I haven't had chance to do a lot today, unfortunately, but one thing that is interesting (to me at least) is that the objects are visible further away in external view than when viewed from the VC. From within the VC, changing the size of the bounding box in MCX model tweaker has no apparent effect and changing the size of the object only works if I change it massively (250% original size, or so).

Just fired up Blender and am about to try playing with the LOD settings. Expect my three remaining hairs to be reduced in number imminently.

Ian P.
 
Would have a simple MDL file made with Blender for me? Would be interesting to see how they handle LODs when you don't specify any. Maybe there is a difference with GMax there.
 
Have the world's least complex runway "T"!

I've included all the files other than the far-too-big PSD.

Cheers,

Ian P.
 

Attachments

Hi,

That looks as expected, with a LOD 100 for the object. Interesting that it has different visibility range compared to GMax objects. I'll see if I can do some more testing...
 
Ian P said:
There are no LODs in it at present, because all the tutorials I've read about LODs in Blender have required lots of code writing in the script window, involving the Blender Game Engine...
Click to expand...

Hi Ian, I guess you found tutorials about other game engines. It's a lot less complicated than that. LODs for FSX are created using the hierarchy of the scene in Blender. Refer to the wiki manual for details.

arno said:
Hi,

That looks as expected, with a LOD 100 for the object. Interesting that it has different visibility range compared to GMax objects. I'll see if I can do some more testing...
Click to expand...

Hi Arno, keep us posted on your findings. Are there other factors that have an influence on visibility range other than LODs ? Would be good to know if this is a feature that is missing from the Blender export script.

Cheers :)
 
Well applying a LOD definitely seems to have helped, although it's not perfect. Provided zoom in the VC is set to 1.00, I can see the T from a tiny amount under 2,000'AMSL (1,970'AMSL as I'm typing, which is 1,777' AGL) - that's better than the 1,600'AMSL or so that I could see it from before, but I also have to be practically overhead the signal square. Reduce the eyepoint zoom, even just to 0.90, and the "T" is gone. It looks to be a couple of pixels wide when visible, so presumably that's just "too small", which is fair enough. Before, when it was 'popping in' at 1,600' AMSL, it was a very clearly visible instantly, so that was definitely not just because it was too small to display.

Thanks to krispy for the video tutorial on LODs, although it took me a while to find it! :)

I'll try making the distant LOD "T" fatter and see if that helps more still. It doesn't explain, though, the discrepancy between the gmax compiled and Blender compiled K2Ys, which I will come up with a decent test for, using the same model (Ill just use blocks, as you suggest Arno), but that's a secondary issue right now, compared to trying to get this model working - although it is, probably, the more interesting issue of the two.

Cheers,

Ian P.
 
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I've done a load more poking and prodding at this problem and have discovered that the gmax versus Blender thing was good old human error (the gmax model had LODs, the Blender model didn't. D'oh.) but since then I've discovered another one that I don't understand, which is directly related to the issues I was having with the landing direction "T", and actually contradicts what seemed to be happening with the two trucks I was using to test.

I've completely remapped and slightly modified the truck that caused the original question - a WW2 AEC tanker that Bill Ortis kindly made for me years ago - in Blender and recompiled it. Someone complained that it needed LODs, because it vanished too early, but when I add the LODs, the model now actually disappears before an identical model that doesn't have LODs. This confuses me slightly.

I've tried changing the LOD levels - so far it's had 400, 100, 25 and 5 in various combinations, with a 1" square plane ticking away inside the cab to provide the animation - but it always seems to be the same. If I start next to the objects and slew away, the one with LODs disappears before the otherwise identical LOD100 model.

I'm continuing to poke and prod at this, but it's completely contrary to what I was expecting, so I'm slightly confused.

I've.. I've.. I've... I should have started that last sentence with "I've not given up" or something, just to continue the pattern... ;)

Cheers,

Ian P.
 
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