Short runway & Long runway!

[philipgm]

At the local airport the main runway is 3288 meters and the cross runway is 1741 meters. Main is 02 - 20 and the cross runway is 11 - 29. We often have very strong winds from the north west which gets most planes in real life to land on the 29 runway into the wind. Is there a way to make this happen in FSX. Today the wind is from 305 deg at 30 to 40 knots making the 29 runway the correct one for the wind. In these conditions landing on the 02 runway is exciting!
Thanks
Philip

 

[rfields]

We really need to know the specific airport - because there are a lot of things besides runway length which impact the runway choice decision.

Does one of the runways have an ILS and the other not have an ILS? An ILS will be a preferred landing runway up to certain wind limits which vary sometimes by individual airport.

In general, FS would not assign a runway less than 7,000 ft long in preference to one over 10,000 ft long.

Depending upon the specific airport and your AI traffic, this might be a candidate for the Crosswind Runway technique.

You mentioned a specific weather - which I assume was real world weather. Did FS show the same weather?

 

[mdm248111]

i am assuming it is Christchurch Intl?

 

[glottis]

Philip

It's quite possible that Banks Peninsular may come into the issue here,
when i made my FSX file for NZCH with the Xwind rwy operating I was unable to get traffic to land on 29, and everything came in on 20, the props would take off from 29 though when parked at the domestic terminal,
change the wind direction to a southerly and all GA and ANZ ATR's, Saab's will land on 11 and the heavies on 20,
the default as you know is only 2,
11/29 is is also not long enough for a 737 or A320 to land on,

this may be a classic example of trying Jim's curved approaches for 29

 

[philipgm]

Yes NZCH. The main runway has ILS, but to test I added ILS to 29 but no change. I was using real wx conditions. And you could be right about Banks Peninsula having an affect. And in real conditions the 737 does land on this short runway. How do those curved approaches etc work?
Thanks for help
Philip

 

[glottis]

Yes NZCH. The main runway has ILS, but to test I added ILS to 29 but no change. I was using real wx conditions. And you could be right about Banks Peninsula having an affect. And in real conditions the 737 does land on this short runway. How do those curved approaches etc work?
Thanks for help
Philip

Philip,

adding the ILS means nothing to AI aircraft,
a 737 may well land on 11/29 in real life but not in FSX,
then i don't recall them ever using 29, you may well know different,
in FSX they need a rwy at least 6000ft, but of course i stand to be corrected by the way

Jim is the best to answer your question on curved approaches as most navaids goes over my head I'm afraid.......

 

[philipgm]

Thanks All, I have created the fake runways between runway 20 and 29 using jim's method and all works great. Aircraft now landing at 29 when strong nor-west wind. I have often seen the 737 land on the runway 29. They fly over my house for that runway. Yes they do use up every inch of the runway though and I think there has to be a minimum wind strength for them to use 29.
Cheers
Philip

 

[philipgm]

AI aircraft

While testing runway 20 at NZCH I have noticed that all AI aircraft land about 6 miles short of the runway. Landing is fine at the other end 02. Any ideas. It looks most strange.
Philip

 

[bobbyjack]

Philip

Are the planes landing short of the runway default AI,addon AI, or user planes that you are using as AI?

Bob

 

[sddjd]

While testing runway 20 at NZCH I have noticed that all AI aircraft land about 6 miles short of the runway. Landing is fine at the other end 02. Any ideas. It looks most strange.
Philip

Might be unrelated, but this past weekend I noticed a similar problem at NZAA; found that the glideslope angle for 23L (#?) was incorrectly set to 2 degrees. All traffic arriving there was doing a tour of the suburbs prior to arriving at the airport.

 

[jvile]

Might be unrelated, but this past weekend I noticed a similar problem at NZAA; found that the glideslope angle for 23L (#?) was incorrectly set to 2 degrees. All traffic arriving there was doing a tour of the suburbs prior to arriving at the airport.

AI Planes do not know what the Glideslope means or any of its slant angles.

Many of the problems with AI Plane arrival can be associated with

1) No ILS approach code for the active landing runway,
2) Weather at the time of arrival was VMC vs IMC with no ILS approach code
3) AI Planes FDE set including the .air
4) Using FS2004 AI Planes ported over to FSX
5) AI Planes Flight Plan set higher then FL350 ft.
6) Using 3rd party arrival AI seperation utility's vs the stock FS arrival seperation code
7) AI Planes that were put into a slew mode prior to the final approach course heading
8) High terrain in the vicinity of the approach course
9) Sinkrate of the AI Plane when gear comes down
10) Approach code altitude set too high or too low

 

[sddjd]

Thanks Jim. Is there a "simple" variable I might check to investigate this as a first step? I’ve been working on NZAA through various iterations, and at some unknown point the AI suddenly began landing well short of the runway (both ends). I’m wondering if I modified/deleted something in error. Previously my AI flew in correctly.... no longer; operator error no doubt.

 

[glottis]

Philip

have a look at your Navaids in the List/menu, then look at them in approach mode list/approaches, i take it you are using v1.40?
make a note of them, then compare them to the default airport,
there may be some differences as whenuapai, Hobsonville and Ardmore are pretty close but really should be much the same........
if you want another version to compare with, you could try my version of NZAA i uploaded to Jons website this week AI land perfectly only on 5R/23L, 5L/23R is closed as you probably know........

 

[jvile]

Thanks Jim. Is there a "simple" variable I might check to investigate this as a first step? I’ve been working on NZAA through various iterations, and at some unknown point the AI suddenly began landing well short of the runway (both ends). I’m wondering if I modified/deleted something in error. Previously my AI flew in correctly.... no longer; operator error no doubt.

Like Ray says, there may be a possibility you lost the approach code for your runways. Under certain circumtances and using other Airport Utilities back and forth you could flush out the approach code from the ADE XML. This is not going to cause a problem since FS falls back on the default APXnnnn.bgl.

What can happen with the fall back is the DeleteAllApproach=TRUE gets set and if no approach code is in the ADE XML all your runways are now visual. High terrain in the vicinity can cause AI to land short or long. Go to your airport and using the GPS receiver look at the approach page and see if it is blank. You can do the same with ADE and go to the approach mode.

 

[art209]

What can happen with the fall back is the DeleteAllApproach=TRUE gets set and if no approach code is in the ADE XML all your runways are now visual. High terrain in the vicinity can cause AI to land short or long. Go to your airport and using the GPS receiver look at the approach page and see if it is blank. You can do the same with ADE and go to the approach mode.

I am working on KSRQ using ADE with FSX active. While working, I noticed an airliner land short of the airport and taxi across a lake to the runway. I checked the list of approaches in ADE and there were 14 listed. May I have done something with ADE to cause this problem or is it an FSX issue? This is Florida with no high terrain around.

Art

 

[jvile]

Art

Some AI Airplanes can land short within the first 5-15 minutes of starting FSX.

AI Planes materialize in the visual sectors too close to a airport when FSX is started. They will descend at a very fast rate and cannot recover at the FAF altitude in the approach XML. That causes them to fall through the hardfloor for final approach and will taxi along the ground until reaching the runway texture.

ATC will then tell the AI Plane to vacate the runway. In time FSX will stablize and all AI Planes will enter the visual sector at a distance that allows for the correct descent profile.

If FSX has been running for 30 minutes and you still see AI Planes landing short or long (missed the runway completely) that can be 1 of 2 issues.

1. The AI plane FDE's (.cfg and .air) need to be replaced with a better version.

2. The weather is clear and the runway the planes are landing on does not have a ILS approach code.

 

[art209]

Art

Some AI Airplanes can land short within the first 5-15 minutes of starting FSX.

AI Planes materialize in the visual sectors too close to a airport when FSX is started. They will descend at a very fast rate and cannot recover at the FAF altitude in the approach XML. That causes them to fall through the hardfloor for final approach and will taxi along the ground until reaching the runway texture.

ATC will then tell the AI Plane to vacate the runway. In time FSX will stablize and all AI Planes will enter the visual sector at a distance that allows for the correct descent profile.

If FSX has been running for 30 minutes and you still see AI Planes landing short or long (missed the runway completely) that can be 1 of 2 issues.

1. The AI plane FDE's (.cfg and .air) need to be replaced with a better version.

2. The weather is clear and the runway the planes are landing on does not have a ILS approach code.

Thanks.

Art