MSFS20 Sitting on a hot tin roof!

[John Young]

I've spent 6 months learning and discovering how to convert my FSX native AI aircraft for use in MSFS and they work fine when operating from an uncovered apron.

However, I've tried to place 12 default shelter objects with the parking spots under them. When the F-15E's, in this case, push back, as the pass fully under the shelter, they jump up onto the roof. As the pushback continues, they jump back down to the ground again. When they move forward to depart the spot, they jump onto the roof and down again:

Just to make sure there was no feature of an exclude polygon that removes a default hangar in that position, was not causing the jump, I isolated a shelter and got an F-15E to taxi through it. It too went onto the roof for a few seconds:

Finally, I set my default UI aircraft in slew mode and tried to pass under the shelters. That too end up on the roof:

Is this a known problem please and can anything be done about it?

John

 

[Anthony31]

Sounds like the top of the shelters are hard road surfaces and the AI traffic is treating them exactly the same as a traffic car AI would treat a bridge object. ie it drives on top of it.

 

[=rk=]

Hi, what you're calling a problem is Asobo's solution to another problem. Those look like the default "military awning," or whatever they call them, so you'll have to find something that does not have a "collision mesh" and test with that. It's my belief you and AI can treat objects as if they are ghosts, without it.

 

[John Young]

This is really frustrating. I've just tried Gen_Hangar_118 which has a pointed roof. That too causes the F-15E to jump on top of it:

My next step is to see if I can import the shelters I made originally for the airfield in FSX/P3D. It's a Gmax model in FSX Native code. I don't know if I can run that through MCX to produce a glTF for MSFS, but I'll give it a go.

John

 

[=rk=]

My next step is to see if I can import the shelters I made originally for the airfield in FSX/P3D. It's a Gmax model in FSX Native code. I don't know if I can run that through MCX to produce a glTF for MSFS, but I'll give it a go.

You can, it's quite easy, imo. You'd probably want to get the MSFS SDK and just copy the SimpleScenery sample project. Please let us know if my guess is correct!

 

[John Young]

Thanks for staying with me Rick.

So what I did was to convert my FSX model to 3Dmax and then to gtLF. I also converted the materials to .PNG. I placed the model files in my package for the airport (Selfridge ANG Base KMTC) and the materials in the texture folder. The model has 3 files like this:

I launched MSFS and went to KMTC and loaded the project into the scenery editor. I then Built the scenery again so that the shelter model would be picked up. However, when I launched the Objects folder again, it wasn't there, so I couldn't place it.

Am I doing something wrong please?

John

 

[GaryGB]

Hello:

I'm not certain if MCX has a glTF Collision Material conversion feature for pre-MSFS 3D object MDLs with crash boxes (yet):

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+crash+box&client=firefox-b-1-d&ei=J44DY5vXLZackPIPxs6U6A4&ved=0ahUKEwjbhvj-z9r5AhUWDkQIHUYnBe0Q4dUDCA0&oq=site:www.fsdeveloper.com+crash+box&gs_lcp=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&sclient=gws-wiz

...considering the "Material" work-flow used by the MSFS SDK for glTF collision mesh versus that for legacy MDL crash boxes.

https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Asset_Creation/3DS_Max_Plugin/Materials.htm?rhhlterm=collision mesh


Perhaps if we use the MCX preview mode toolbar icon for crash boxes on a glTF we may see what originally was a MDL crash box ?


PS: I personally would not miss MSFS collision mesh if it was absent from all objects except roads or custom 3D platform meshes.

I fly in FS with "collisions" turned off, but I still get hung up on some buildings, and I partially fall through roadway bridges.

Too bad MSFS default road bridge objects fail to provide a flat and impenetrable surface ...like roofs on buildings do.

One might wonder if default collide-able buildings inherited a legacy attribute via the "Named FS Materials Internal Flag Goof" ?

"Note On Referencing Materials

It should be noted that - in some files - materials can be referenced by name, for example in the Panel Config Definition files. In legacy FSX aircraft, these material names were prefixed using the "$" symbol. However, in Microsoft Flight Simulator this prefix should not be used as it is an internal flag that forces the material to act like a collision material, regardless of whether the collision material option has been checked or not. As such, using this prefix can create unforeseen issues for your aircraft that may be difficult to understand or debug, and should be avoided."

I guess we need to wait to hear more, but from the previous post it seems like it's not completely ready.

Collisions do seem to work with this, but they're still not completely reliable and they still act unnaturally, but maybe I haven't crashed into enough standard items.

I'll wait for the next release or two.

I used the exporter to create collision shapes they are there and work ....okeysh..
I used them in my powerlines scenery
Plane do crash on them..but Ai Cars consider them as bridges

Collision meshes, instead, are unreliable -.-

Inviato dal mio Mi 9 Lite utilizzando Tapatalk

Hmmm... MSFS' 2nd birthday, and IMHO, there are seemingly more active threads on FSX / P3D than MSFS itself; scary.

BTW: SU-10 will now be 2 weeks late for the MSFS birthday party.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/blog-august-18th-2022-development-update/537070

GaryGB

 

[=rk=]

Yep, I'd just go straight through MCX. 3ds Max doesn't make a proper .XML, imo, it's a must for skinned animations, but other than that, I'm much more comfortable with MCX and it can handle everything perfectly, including Comp textures but excluding decals, or overlay textures.

My suggestion is that you simply import your P3D model into MCX, export a MSFS scenery package from MCX, so it builds the .XML and file structure, then go back and save the textures into the PackaceSources/modellib/texture folder, as .png, reexport the MSFS scenery package to make sure it properly points to that texture path, then open MSFS, open DevMode, find the package .XML that MCX created and load it.

At this juncture, we'll take the state of imported crash boxes for granted. I've converted many of my own hangars and have yet to be forced onto a roof, although granted, it's a flight sim.

 

[GaryGB]

In MSFS we now have choices: rather than just unauthorized tower fly-bys, we also have unauthorized "drive-bys" (...or not).

GaryGB

 

[Tim Collins]

Who needs an F-35 when your F-15 is so agile, John?!

 

[John Young]

Hi Tim, nice to see you here. Even more agile will be my AI A-10C conversion that will sit under those shelters if I can stop the pilots jumping over them! The F-15E's are just keeping the parking spots warm for the moment.

John

 

[Tim Collins]

I look forward to you getting on top of both MSFS scenery and the AI system. I seem to spend more time here these days as the repository of knowledge is huge, and I do occasionally have something to add (though I got told off for helping earlier!).

 

[John Young]

Rick, I've tried your suggested method of exporting the MCX conversion as scenery rather than a model. I can load the xml into the Project Editor, but I'm stuck with what to do after this point:

My apologies if this is something simple, but I've only been wrestling with MSFS scenery for a few days. It might help me if you could give me the step by step process for this particular method.

John

 

[=rk=]

Ok, so after you build your project, which is compiling the scenery into the virtual file system, you have to load it. The next window, from the "Tools" drop down, should be the "Scenery Editor."

Near the bottom, "Package: None Asset: None," click the "Select" button and this allows you to select your built package, which they are now calling an "asset group."

You can see that mine is called "scenery-zubi-main" and after highlighting "myscene," click select, just once more, to be sure.

Ok, so that brings us back to the Scenery Editor and you can tell if you did everything right, because the Material Editor window will open whether you want it to or not. Your final step is to click "Load the asset group" and all your polygons, placed objects, hangars and such, will appear.

Now if this doesn't work, you'll want to open the "Console Window," from the Windows drop down. Click the warnings and the messages tab, so only the errors show, carefully read each statement and try to correct it. Whatever prevents the successful build, will be listed in the console, however, not all hard errors prevent a build, so it doesn't find the hang for you, just gives you ideas to eliminate. As an example, mine had 66 errors, there are hundreds of objects and everything looks fine.

Finally, *spoiler alert* I went ahead and intentionally slewed into one of my placed hangars and parked as expected.

 

[John Young]

Thanks Rick. I'm up bright and early to give it a go.

So far I have converted the FSX shelter model file to a scenery file in MCX and loaded the xml into the SDK Project Editor. I then Built the Package.

I can get as far as the Asset Selector, but it's blank:

Is this because of the two errors in the Package Builder - "Failed to spawn lister for content Info.............................(package: Selfridge_shelters)?

Is my very first step correct please - converting the shelter model to a scenery file (I don't want to convert the whole scenery)?

John

 

[mamu]

Thanks Rick. I'm up bright and early to give it a go.

So far I have converted the FSX shelter model file to a scenery file in MCX and loaded the xml into the SDK Project Editor. I then Built the Package.

I can get as far as the Asset Selector, but it's blank:

Is this because of the two errors in the Package Builder - "Failed to spawn lister for content Info.............................(package: Selfridge_shelters)?

Is my very first step correct please - converting the shelter model to a scenery file (I don't want to convert the whole scenery)?

John

the root error is in the first line of the console, you are missing the thumbnail, that is needed
to add one, in the project editor, click on you package name (the light blue title with the little arrow)
open the inspector window (view/inspector)
scroll down untile you see the place for the thumbnail (it should be like a black rectangle)
click on it, locate any .jpg image with size 412x170 (this size is mandatory)
problem should be solved!

 

[=rk=]

We have to be very careful about using the SDK samples, imo and change only the aspects - hopefully one aspect per test pass, that we wish to master. In this case, the only things that needed to be changed, were the model file and the contents of the texture folder, everything else could remain the same SimpleScenery sample and we would probably have a successful build of the model in question, instead of having to search for the appropriate thumbnail. I will agree that the system is incredibly confusing, while it is a shadow, or a ghost, or an improvement of the FSX development system, it has been made far more complex, than the apparent benefits it brings, but it's what we have to work with, for the present and even that coping mechanism, is evocative of early FSX development.

I can attest that the uncertainty gets so extreme, that there is at least one commercial addon for sale in the MS Marketplace, that uses default Asobo named textures and has at least one component labeled "GaugeAircraft." These both result from developing, by editing the SDK samples and this particular developer did not go so far as to recreate, or at least rename, these particular items.

Anyway, good call by Federico, he knows the DevMode system very thoroughly and is not tainted by confusing memories of the halcyon days of FSX developing.

 

[John Young]

Thanks both. I've just tried again after making and inserting a thumbnail as instructed, but still my Asset Selector window is blank.

I need to abort this one I think - it's just sending me around in unproductive circles again. I had 6 months of that when learning how to convert my FSX AI aircraft, as part of the MAIW MSFS Development team, for use in MSFS. We did at least get there in the end, but it was a huge amount of work. Here are my F-35A's in Ian's Lakenheath scenery (update not yet released):

I really want to concentrate on AI aircraft, having designed FS9 and FSX/P3D scenery for many years. Indeed, I'm tainted too by just how easy that was compared to MSFS. While we can work with designers like Ian to accommodate AI aircraft, it probably takes 10 times as long to produce a new custom scenery than it does to produce a new AI aircraft. That's why I was looking for a quick way to amend a default airfield to accommodate AI so that I can maintain the flow of design and not forget how to do it through lack of practice - AI design for MSFS is really complicated too.

We're OK so long as shelters are not present, but I have a lot of scenery objects I could have used, if only I could get them into scenery more easily. Pity, but as Rick says, it's what we have to work with.

Thanks again,
John

 

[GaryGB]

Hi John:

IMHO, we need Arno's participation on this topic, and thus it merits a heads-up post in the MCX sub-forum.

We need a simple way in MCX to disable the Collision attribute on both MSFS default glTF and imported legacy MDLs intended to be exported to glTF format.

That said, we also need in MCX, an easy way to implement conversion of imported legacy format MDL Crash Boxes into single- or multi-LOD- Collision Mesh for export to glTF 3D objects.

Additionally, we might also benefit from MCX having the ability to enable / modify Collision Mesh for glTF 3D objects at the individual SceneObject node level of the Heirarchy Editor ...as, IIRC, we are able to do for Crash Boxes on MDLs.

GaryGB

 

[=rk=]

The original problem is default MSFS collision.

I've spent 6 months learning and discovering how to convert my FSX native AI aircraft for use in MSFS and they work fine when operating from an uncovered apron.

However, I've tried to place 12 default shelter objects with the parking spots under them. When the F-15E's, in this case, push back, as the pass fully under the shelter, they jump up onto the roof. As the pushback continues, they jump back down to the ground again. When they move forward to depart the spot, they jump onto the roof and down again:

A work around was to use his own objects, that presumably do not have collision applied, so it seems unlikely Arno could change this outcome.