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FSXA Starting from a box
- Thread starter GHD
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n4gix
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Funny, but I seem to count a different number of vertices in each spline... Perhaps my eyesight is failing.
No, you would need to add a cross section modifier then the skin modifier... It's been awhile since I've done any spline modeling.
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The problem is that I edited each spline by moving the vertices and didn't space them evenly. The surface goes from a "V" section to a "U" section when moving back from the stem.
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I try to just clone the Splines as much as possible, if I can get away with it. Saves a little build time. (Now you tell me this?).
Also, when you join the Splines, you must (must) start from one end and go to the other without dis-order. If you skip one, go back, then continue, when you skin the Splines with Surface, then those zones you skipped will tweak inside out. Its easy enough though to just delete the polygons and rebuild the polygons by simple 'connect the dots' to fix the structure.
Looking good though on that hull!
Another way to have done this is to create a box from a hull, a cross section, skin it so its all enclosed, then from there, start extruding outwards, start to front, finish, then go to back from that middle section and finish the stern, (half side only). That way you are working with a 'skin' surface and not just 'poly-dots' lol...
The guys that do addon cars for the Gaming industry (Need for speed, etc) extrude edges from a skin (Editable Mesh) where they slowly evolve a Fender from door to nose, by selecting the edge(s) and holding Shift key down, and dragging a new set of Polygons out of it, section at a time. Extrude, adjust, repeat.
Bill
Also, when you join the Splines, you must (must) start from one end and go to the other without dis-order. If you skip one, go back, then continue, when you skin the Splines with Surface, then those zones you skipped will tweak inside out. Its easy enough though to just delete the polygons and rebuild the polygons by simple 'connect the dots' to fix the structure.
Looking good though on that hull!
Another way to have done this is to create a box from a hull, a cross section, skin it so its all enclosed, then from there, start extruding outwards, start to front, finish, then go to back from that middle section and finish the stern, (half side only). That way you are working with a 'skin' surface and not just 'poly-dots' lol...
The guys that do addon cars for the Gaming industry (Need for speed, etc) extrude edges from a skin (Editable Mesh) where they slowly evolve a Fender from door to nose, by selecting the edge(s) and holding Shift key down, and dragging a new set of Polygons out of it, section at a time. Extrude, adjust, repeat.
Bill
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IMHO spline modelling is the way to go!
I found that i get better results with less work (read: utter frustration...
) with this method compared to deforming a cylinder or box to shape a fuselage.
If you want to adjust your Cross Section you can apply an Edit Spline modifier to the Cross Section.
Now you can move the individual vertices of the "cage".
Note that at the junctions of the cage there are 2 overlaying vertices, one is part of your frame sections, the other is part of the connecting splines between the frame sections. You can cycle the selection by clicking another time on the vertex.
(If you want to adjust one of the cage junctions entirely, make sure that you have selected both vertices by dragging a selection box around them and then move them to where you want.)
You can right click on the vertex and choose for bezier or bezier corner if you like to smoothen the transitions between sections, you can grab the bezier handles and move them the way you see fit. Modesty is your friend here, try to make only small adjustments (the example below is... well a bad example in that sense
)
Connecting spline vertex selected and bezier moved:
Frame section vertex selected:
I found that it makes life a bit easier when you adjust the frame vertices from a front view and the connecting spline vertices from a side view, this helps prevent your beziers from moving into directions you don't want them to go.
Should you want to add extra frame sections you can go to the segment sub-object and under geometry tick the Connect box to on and click on the Refine button.
Now you can click at the desired positions on a segment of the connecting splines and add vertices there. Make sure you do it in the correct order otherwise you end up with a curly curly. Note that the connections between the vertices only show after you end the Refine function, so they don't show as you click for the vertices addition.
Vertices added from bottom to top:
Note that will have to move the new vertices into the correct positions and adjust the beziers to get a nice smooth flow of your fuselage.
Hope this helps!
grt
Willem
I found that i get better results with less work (read: utter frustration...
) with this method compared to deforming a cylinder or box to shape a fuselage.If you want to adjust your Cross Section you can apply an Edit Spline modifier to the Cross Section.
Now you can move the individual vertices of the "cage".
Note that at the junctions of the cage there are 2 overlaying vertices, one is part of your frame sections, the other is part of the connecting splines between the frame sections. You can cycle the selection by clicking another time on the vertex.
(If you want to adjust one of the cage junctions entirely, make sure that you have selected both vertices by dragging a selection box around them and then move them to where you want.)
You can right click on the vertex and choose for bezier or bezier corner if you like to smoothen the transitions between sections, you can grab the bezier handles and move them the way you see fit. Modesty is your friend here, try to make only small adjustments (the example below is... well a bad example in that sense
)Connecting spline vertex selected and bezier moved:
Frame section vertex selected:
I found that it makes life a bit easier when you adjust the frame vertices from a front view and the connecting spline vertices from a side view, this helps prevent your beziers from moving into directions you don't want them to go.
Should you want to add extra frame sections you can go to the segment sub-object and under geometry tick the Connect box to on and click on the Refine button.
Now you can click at the desired positions on a segment of the connecting splines and add vertices there. Make sure you do it in the correct order otherwise you end up with a curly curly. Note that the connections between the vertices only show after you end the Refine function, so they don't show as you click for the vertices addition.
Vertices added from bottom to top:
Note that will have to move the new vertices into the correct positions and adjust the beziers to get a nice smooth flow of your fuselage.
Hope this helps!
grt
Willem
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You're welcome!
Well actually none...
In the screenshots the Line modifier was expanded, but there's nothing below that.
As for a long modifier stack, well this is a small one!
I try to delay collapsing the stack for as long as possible because in many cases you can always go back in the stack and change something instead of modifying a collapsed piece of geometry.
You can rename the stack entries to what you like, for more ease of use ie a descriptive name of the modification that was applied. (right click on the modifier in the stack (edit poly for instance) and choose rename)
Not that i tend to do that a lot, but it might be useful.
grt
Willem
Well actually none...
In the screenshots the Line modifier was expanded, but there's nothing below that.
As for a long modifier stack, well this is a small one!
I try to delay collapsing the stack for as long as possible because in many cases you can always go back in the stack and change something instead of modifying a collapsed piece of geometry.
You can rename the stack entries to what you like, for more ease of use ie a descriptive name of the modification that was applied. (right click on the modifier in the stack (edit poly for instance) and choose rename)
Not that i tend to do that a lot, but it might be useful.
grt
Willem
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Hi Willem,
I seem to be having a few problems.
After applying the "CrossSection" modifer, the mesh seems to have double vertices only on one edge. Your screenshot indicates that you have double vertices on both edges.
I don't see the "EditPoly" modifier under Patch/Spline Editing, you seem to have applied that modifier.
If I display the surface, it does not extend to the lower edge. Perhaps because there is no double vertex?
What could I be doing wrong?
I seem to be having a few problems.
After applying the "CrossSection" modifer, the mesh seems to have double vertices only on one edge. Your screenshot indicates that you have double vertices on both edges.
I don't see the "EditPoly" modifier under Patch/Spline Editing, you seem to have applied that modifier.
If I display the surface, it does not extend to the lower edge. Perhaps because there is no double vertex?
What could I be doing wrong?
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Hello George!
This is of importance for the orientation of the beziers and their influence direction, if you want to make use of them.
The square boxes around the plusses are merely an indication that that vertex is the first vertex of a spline.
You need to know this when making a loft for instance.
Sorry about that...
Maybe someone else has any suggestions to solve this problem?
Hope this helps!
grt
Willem
The catch is that it doesn't look like there are 2 vertices, because they are at the same position. Try to drag a selection around one of the +'s, check the number of selected vertices as indicated under the Selection Rollout. It should indicate 2 vertices selected. If you click once on a vertex it should indicate Spline x Vertex y selected, click again on that same vertex and the indication changes into Spline xx Vertex yy. This indicates to you that you selected a different vertex on a different spline (vertex of a "frame" spline vs vertex of a "connecting" spline), but it is in the same position as the first selected vertex.
This is of importance for the orientation of the beziers and their influence direction, if you want to make use of them.
The square boxes around the plusses are merely an indication that that vertex is the first vertex of a spline.
You need to know this when making a loft for instance.
Dang! I'm using Max 7 not realising that Gmax would be different in that respect. I just checked and you're right there is no Edit Poly modifier in Gmax it seems.
Sorry about that...
No i don't think so. Did you play around with the Threshold (under Spline options) and Steps (under Patch Topology) values to see whether that makes any change? (Surface modifier active)
Maybe someone else has any suggestions to solve this problem?
Hope this helps!
grt
Willem
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Thank you, that was it
Setting both Threshold and Steps to zero produces a better result. All I need to do now is refine the surface.
One last question if I may.
The surface should extend to a single point at the top of the bow. Can I create a single point spline or should I slope the first section to match the bow and set all offsets to zero?
Edit. It's ok, I sloped the forward section and the surface ends on the centre-line.
Thank you for all of your help.
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Nice work George!
Try making it again. The second and third times are always much faster and better results as well. Learning to use the tools is always hardest the first time around.
Sometimes I'll awake in the night, pondering a fuselage mesh, and it comes to me a better way to create it, and I jump out of bed, boot up Gmax, and start making an new and better one. Not good though if you have a schedule, lol...
Its sort of like woodworking in a little shop. You find ways to chamfer edges, then a different way 'floats through the mind' or you hear about a new way of doing things, and your work will steadily improve and evolve... Poly-bending... The art of making neat stuff, and cultivating illuminated, bright, crooked, gigantic, thick eyebrows!
Bill
Try making it again. The second and third times are always much faster and better results as well. Learning to use the tools is always hardest the first time around.
Sometimes I'll awake in the night, pondering a fuselage mesh, and it comes to me a better way to create it, and I jump out of bed, boot up Gmax, and start making an new and better one. Not good though if you have a schedule, lol...
Its sort of like woodworking in a little shop. You find ways to chamfer edges, then a different way 'floats through the mind' or you hear about a new way of doing things, and your work will steadily improve and evolve... Poly-bending... The art of making neat stuff, and cultivating illuminated, bright, crooked, gigantic, thick eyebrows!
Bill
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I am beginning to see the light
Excellent!!
Keep hold of this nice feeling because if you're anything like most people around here something else will soon come along and turn that light off again...
That's what happens to me time and again anyway, keeping me awake at night thinking of some other ways to do this and that...
Grey eyebrows all around, here on this forum.
Just ask Lionheart!!
Grt
Willem
Point of information - he already forgot when he last SAW eyebrows - grey, black, or whatever color ....
hairyspin
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He kinda looks like Lionheart... and they ARE from the same neck of the woods ..... and you NEVER see them together ....
Any truth in the rumour that Wile E. Coyote builds for MSFS???
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Felix,
More like this....
The Tale of Two Bills?
Actually the "Bill" on the left could just as well have been labeled "Mike Mann".
Regards, Mike Mann