Terrain visibility

[Marcel94]

Hi,
I've been trying FenceBuilder Pro now to place my ramp in Flight Simulator, but I'm encountering a problem. There is a major gab between the segments.
I follow the "Quick Start Manual" provided by FBP, so:
1, I Start New Project, where I select the Object Placement.sty
2, Connect to FSx
3, Select the start and base position
4, Row of Objects / Effects in which I select the "User Model" bullet.
5, Place the models GUID code in "Model Name"
6, Use the baseline position as my next starting position.
7, Save and Compile the project
8, Restart Flight Simulator (the model is in an active scenery file.)
Although the first segment are place to each other the following segments are placed some distance away from the the first objects. Am I doing something wrong or forgetting something?
Thanks in advance,

Marcel

In addition, the ramp I want to make is an U shaped form, is this possible to construct? Since there are only parameters for top and bottom I don't know which one I should edit.
I do found the "projects" folder within the Fencebuilder Pro instalation folder and I wonder if just pasting the .MDL file into the folder would make any difference. Offcourse the .XML file needs to be edited to match the MDL file.

 

[gadgets]

Marcel, there are several ways to do this. The easiest is to make all fence segments sequentially. Open Plan View when connected to FlightSim, position the user aircraft to the start of the first fence segment and click Start to User A/C, move the aircraft to where you want the end of the first segment and then click. , by immediately if you position the user aircraft at the end of the existing fence segment and then click Segments. Now, just move the user aircraft (by slewing, dragging, etc.) to where you want the end of the next segment and click Segments again. Repeat until the fence is complete.

If you want to add a segment to an existing fence, In Plan View, select the existing segment where the new segment is to begin, click the selected radio button if not checked, then click To Start or to End. The user aircraft will be placed at the selected end. Now click Start to A/C, Form this point on, simply move the user aircraft to where you want the end of each new segment and, as before, click Segments for each new segment.

The ends of fence segments may not align exactly, but the difference should never be more that a couple of inches.

Row of Objects / Effects is used to place individual objects.

BTW, there is a Fencebuilder Pro forum at FS Addon, as noted in the user manual.

Hope this helps.
Don

 

[Marcel94]

Thanks for the swift reply. It makes a lot of sence now that there was a gab in between the segments since it is used for placing individual objects. I'll try to make it work, otherwise I'll let you know by the FBP forum.
Marcel

 

[Marcel94]

Is there a way to place my sketchup constructed model over a fence which I have drawn? The fence functions as a pilar for my model but I don't know how to place the sketchup model on top of it.
Hopefully this is possible.
Marcel

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Marcel:

IIRC, it should be possible to achieve even better than a couple of inches of proximity between edges of both extrusion and 3-D MDL-based objects ...which are placed via FenceBuilder Pro (aka "FBP").

As Don stated above, FBP can place individual objects (which are 3-D MDL-based) via the "Row of Objects / Effects" options in the FBP GUI.

I was not sure what type of object you had in mind for the actual ramp-way to support your dynamic SimObjects (ex: FS AI / Multi-Player / Highway Traffic / Airport Ground Vehicles / Living World or user piloted "wing in ground effect" aircraft), but it seemed likely that you might create some larger areas of terrain coverage, and could benefit from greater precision and semi-automation of the creation and placement of ramp-way components.

Thus, whether one uses extrusion object support pillars with a separate super-imposed 3-D MDL-based ramp-way, or if both the support pillars and the ramp-way are combined in a single object, FBP should be able to place them 'end-to-end' with good precision, so that minimal manual "nudging" is required to move the approximated objects into optimal alignment.


Actually, Sketchup might prove rather convenient for creating both your support pillars and the ramp-way in a single object, then set the hardened concrete platform attribute onto the unique texture used for the inside surface of the U-shaped "trough".

If the various components of your 3-D MDL-based ramp-way are all set at similar length, FPB may be able to place them on the ground at assigned intervals which aligns them into very close proximity comparable to what it does with extrusion objects.

Even if your (3-D MDL-based) ramp-way was a very large model (ex: greater than 100 Meters on its longest dimension), MCX can automatically break your imported Sketchup models into several contiguous 100 Meter length pieces when converting it to a MDL, so that it follows the general (spheroidal) curve of the MSFS 3-D world terrain surface.

Additionally, Sketchup uses a series of straight lines to form curves, which may allow FBP to semi-automatically create / place a series of uniform sized objects at precise inter-object distances on the ground for any straight paths, whether longer straight segments or much shorter straight segments such as used to create a 'curved' poly-line.

If you decide to use a single 3-D MDL-based ramp-way object rather than separate extrusion support objects with super-imposed 3-D MDL-based ramp-way objects, the support pillars can of course be a part of the ramp-way model itself.

In that scenario, the support pillars would then be the bottom part of the entire object which actually contacts the ground below the ramp-way above ...when such objects are placed at "0" Meters / Feet "AGL" in the BGLComp-based XML placement code (assuming one sets FBP to use 0-AGL for the object elevation).


Also, since version 7, Sketchup now uses a very precise inter-conversion between the GIS projection of the aerial imagery downloaded from Google Maps onto the "ground" as 1024 x 1024 pixel tiles in a flat, non-warped configuration suitable for use within the Cartesian coordinate system of a 3-D world modeling program such as Sketchup and other comparable applications such as GMAX, 3DSMAX, Blender etc..

Along with the Google Maps aerial imagery, Sketchup also concurrently downloads (and normally 'hides') the associated (usually 90 Meter SRTM-derived) terrain mesh as a TIN-based rendering under the draped aerial imagery tile.


BTW: If you have not yet seen this Sketchup tutorial for the "Shape Bender" Ruby script plugin, you might find it interesting:

Hope this helps achieve a more efficient and precise result with your project !

 

[Marcel94]

Thanks a lot! But that is just a part of the problem. I do want to place the Sketchup 3D MDL Object into FBP, but I don't know how.. I've tried various ways like using the buttons Single Object/Effect or Row(s) of Objects/Effects. Even tried to place segments along the path and then adding the 3 D MDL Object. With no succes.
Can you give me a global tutorial of how to put my model into FBP? Or tell me how to extrude the 3 D MDL model in FBP.
The sketchup model is already been entered into the User Model and Library Object list but I can't get them to line up in a path.

Since Single Object/Effect and Row(s) of Objects/Effects are used to place individual objects I didn't assume that this would be the right way to make the ramp. If I'm wrong please tell me so.

What I've got at the moment is:
- The lat-lon positions of the start and end.
- Segmented the path, clicking on the 'Segment' button
- My 3 D MDL model including the hardened surface.

The result:
- A fence along the given lat-lon coördinates which hasn't got a hardened platform

The video is awesome, thanks. I think this would save a lot of time making curves! If only I knew how to place them
Thanks in advance,

Marcel

 

[rhumbaflappy]

Place the object at the elevation of the top of the fence?

 

[GaryGB]

Place the object at the elevation of the top of the fence?

Hi Dick:

Indeed, if Marcel opts to use extrusion object support pillars with a separate super-imposed 3-D MDL-based ramp-way, the latter ramp-way objects could be placed with an elevation offset using a value other than "0" Meters or Feet from the ground AGL (...rather than using the defaut "0" Meters or Feet AGL value in the BGLComp XML placement code).

FBP of course can set this elevation offset value when placing a "Row of Objects / Effects" via the dialog boxes in the FBP GUI.

GaryGB

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Marcel:

I'll have to re-install the current version of FPB and refresh my familiarity with what may have changed in any updates released since working with the Beta and RTM versions, and I may need a day or so to do that; then I shall be better able to reply to your questions immediately above.

You could package a ZIP or RAR file of example object(s) and a placement BGL which could be loaded into FBP to test, and attach it to a post here in this thread so we can all learn more about this interesting albeit somewhat specialized topic of placing (via BGLComp XML code), extrusion and/or 3-D MDL-based objects in precisely aligned segments for use in MSFS.

Alternatively, if you need / prefer to limit distribution, you can send me a link to download such a package via PM here at FSDeveloper.

GaryGB

 

[Marcel94]

I would like to take your advice of placing the object at an elevation above the fence, but my fence has a length of 150 km this would take a lot of time. I'll have to place every object at its right lat-lon coordinate above the segment with an elevation. Therefore it will be a lot easier if FBP could do this for you. Maybe it is very obvious, but I can't see it.
I will put the zipped file as soon as possible on this thread. I think it will be tomorrow morning since I have to write a report.. Zipped in that file are my used # d MDL object and the compiled file from FBP.
Thanks for your help.
Marcel

 

[Marcel94]

Attached is the zipped file including the used MDL Model and Fence. The fence length is reduced to a more normal length.
Hopefully you are able to help me.
Marcel

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Marcel:

I am looking into the required workflow with FBP, and initially had planned to place a "Row of Objects" of the MDL-based Scenery Object Library type via FBP.

I also planned to place the MDLs as "Segments" via FBP, and will reply after some further testing this weekend.


FYI: I have examined the test object inside "Bak_platform6.BGL" from your "FBP_Data.zip" file attached immediately above, and it appears to be approximately 12 Meters in length, but before proceeding further, I wanted to inquire first:

1.) What is the precise measurement of length for this object inside "Bak_platform6.BGL" ?

2.) Did you model all the "Concept1_[GUID]_FSX.mdl" objects inside the "Concept1_FSX.BGL" with the same length ?

3.) Did you model all the "Concept1_[GUID]_FSX.mdl" objects inside the "Concept1_FSX.BGL" with the same length as the object in "Bak_platform6.BGL" ?


I shall await your reply...

GaryGB

 

[Marcel94]

Thanks for looking into the problem.
As far as the questions go:
1.) The length of the object measured in Sketchup is 29,99m x 10,00m x 1,50m
2.) I don't believe I did that this time. At first I had set the Segment length to 15m, but it didn't work.
3.) I set the length to 15m, and maybe this is one of the problems.

By asking these questions its becoming clear to me that all of these little thing could cause the problems which are occurring to me.
I hope this helps a bit. And thanks again for helping me out.
Marcel

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Marcel:

It is understandable that being in Europe, you are more accustomed to using the comma (,) as a Decimal separator rather than a "period" or "dot" or "point" (.).

However, as you might know, it would be important when working with the MSFS SDK and any English language based versions of software such as Sketchup to remember that one must use the "period" or "dot" or "point" (.) as a Decimal separator rather than the comma (,).


Also, IIRC, be sure that regardless of the language version of Windows which is installed on one's computer, the "period" or "dot" or "point" (.) must be set as a Decimal separator rather than the comma (,).

This especially important when working with Sketchup when manually entering values into the Value Control Box (aka "VCB") by typing a value on the keyboard and pressing enter (immediately) after having drawn something which one wishes to reset to specified dimensions (ex: length and width).


So, IIUC from your specified dimensions posted above:

Thanks for looking into the problem.
1.) The length of the object measured in Sketchup is 29,99m x 10,00m x 1,50m

...then, a Sketchup (English) workflow for ex: "Concept1_0244486d-9734-4e6a-b4ec-817ff56d4d0e_FSX.mdl" may be:

1.) Sketchup Menu > Camera > Standard Views > Top

2.) With the "Rectangle" tool, draw a rectangle on the 'ground' plane as a "primitive":

a.) Click on Origin of Axes (where the Green, Red and Blue solid and dotted "axis" lines originate from)

b.) Click-Hold left mouse, draw outwards on the solid Green axis while also drawing outwards to the Right along the solid Red axis

c.) Left click to stop drawing after a rectangle of any size / shape appears

d.) Immediately type desired exact dimensions for the object bottom as:

(1.) Length followed by (M) for Meters or (') for Feet
(2.) Followed by a comma (to separate two sections of text or other characters), followed by
(3.) Width followed by (M) for Meters or (') for Feet

...ex as seen in the "VCB" in the bottom right corner of the Sketchup workspace status bar:

[29.99M,1.5M]

e.) Press "Enter" key to set the value for desired exact dimensions of the (initially randomly sized) rectangle just drawn

3.) Sketchup Menu > Camera > Standard Views > Iso

4.) With the "Push/Pull" (aka "Extrude") tool, pull up on the Blue (vertical) axis to 'extrude' the rectangle up off the 'ground'

a.) Left click to stop extruding after a verical elevation of any height appears

b.) Immediately type desired exact dimensions for the object height as:

(1.) Height followed by (M) for Meters or (') for Feet

...ex as seen in the "VCB" in the bottom right corner of the Sketchup workspace status bar:

[10.00M]

5.) Press "Enter" key to set the value for desired exact dimensions of the (initially random) extrusion just "pulled"

You should now have your object (untextured) at the desired exact dimensions value specified in your post above.


I'll do some initial tests in FBP using objects with exact identical sizes in Feet, and will try to butt them up against each other end-to-end, using a specified length of inter-object "Spacing in Feet" ...via the option in the FBP GUI, and will reply further with my results in this thread.

Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[Marcel94]

Thanks! I didn't thought that the "comma" and "dot" would that much difference. In the meantime I will try according your information which is discribed in the reply above.
I"ll be happy to hear from you.
Marcel

 

[Marcel94]

A little update:
After checked the correct dimensions and entered the right spacing, in my case Meters, the objects were visible in the scenery with the right spacing in between. Unfortunally, due to the change in elevation the MDL object make a abrupt jump in elevation, causes the track to show different layers compaired to a stair. I want to set the elevation but I can't (un)check the box "set AGL". Is there perhaps an other way?
Marcel

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Marcel:

Is this when placing "Segments", or is it instead when placing a Row of (scenery library-type) Objects in FBP ?

GaryGB

 

[Marcel94]

This happens when placeing Row(s) of Object/Effects. I did try to place the object by "segments" but the style in which I was drawing was only visible.
Marcel

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Marcel:

Does the version of FBP you are using have a "User Manual-V2.pdf" file ?

If so, the instructions beginning on Page 35 of 56 for Section 12.1 Object Placement describes the way that FBP operates, and on Page 37 of 56 that manual specifically states:

"Base and End Elevation text boxes and Elev is AGL checkbox

The base elevation text box allows you to place an object at other than ground level.

The two text boxes together allow a row of objects to be sloped relative to the terrain.

The Elev Is AGL checkbox specifies whether the Elevation entries are absolute elevation (unchecked) or referenced to ground level.

Elev Is AGL is checked by default.

These offsets may be entered from the keyboard or, with a mouse click using the 2 "to A/C" buttons, be set to:

o for single objects, the current User Aircraft altitude, and

o for multiple object placements, for:

* the Start offset, the altitude of the User Aircraft when the Start Position was established if known or, otherwise, the
...current User Aircraft altitude; and

* the End offset, the current User Aircraft altitude."


IIUC, you would want to set the offset elevation in Meters or Feet relative to local ground level (AGL) at the Start and End for a particular span of object placements.

This is entered automatically by FBP when it slews the aircraft between the Start and End positions of the span to do "terrain profiling".

Alternatively, you may be able to manually set the End Elevation as a calculated offset into the appropriate dialog box text field to specify that desired Elevation in Meters or Feet relative to local ground level (AGL) at the Start and End for particular span of object placements ...after first manually slewing the aircraft slightly off of the Start position within FS itself.

[EDITED]

Note that although the Start position elevation is automatically logged by FBP, it may be possible to edit that as well, to implement an offset AGL ..after first manually slewing the aircraft slightly off of the Start position within FS itself.

[END_EDIT]

Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[Marcel94]

Thanks for making this more clear to me. I always worked with 'plan view' and didn't think that was possible. Should I use the 'set A/C' for setting the elevation in FBP? Mannually is possible but would take a lot of time I guess
If the elevation is set to A/C and the box AGL is checked, would that also result in abrupt movement?
Thanks again!
Marcel