Textures issue...

[pressler]

I am a noob, so please excuse my ignorance. I am trying to learn...

So, I created a new hanger for an airport I am working on in ADE. I created the object in SketchUp and applied the texture via the paint tool. I believe I exported correctly and eventually got it into a new object library within ADE and added it my airport. The textures look like snow on a TV...see pic below. Would appreciate any guidance to resolve this. My appreciated!

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Robert:

Your textures certainly do look distorted when displayed in FS.


Assuming they looked OK when displayed in Sketchup, and after imported into ModelConverterX (aka "MCX"), did you:


[EDITED]

* convert the mapped texture file format in the MCX Material Editor to "DDS" with "powers of 2" as the pixel dimensions ratio ?

* over-write the ex: source JPG mapped textures in the MCX Material Editor ...with the converted "DDS" mapped textures ?

* copy the converted mapped DDS texture files into a local paired twin \Texture sub-folder under a top folder ?

* put the hangar 3D model BGL exported by MCX into a local paired twin \Scenery sub-folder (under the same top folder, and at the same level beneath it as the \Texture sub-folder) ?

[END_EDIT]


You may wish to ZIP the hangar 3D model BGL and mapped texture files along with the original ex: DAE or KMZ file you exported from Sketchup for import into MCX, then attach it to your post here in this thread, so we can better discern what may have occurred, and advise you on how to fix it.

GaryGB

 

[pressler]

Thank you Gary! I am working back through the steps and will advise on the results.

 

[pressler]

Ok, I went through the steps again, but now I am getting like the FSX default tiles graphic when it cannot find what it is looking for...see pic below. I have also zipped up my files as requested. Thanks again for taking the time to assist me. The .zip file is actually a 7Zip file. If you have issues, just rename the extension to .7zip.

 

[=rk=]

The sim does not substitute "graphic tiles," nor are you showing a screenshot of the hangar you uploaded, because that model is mapped to .jpg textures, which the sim does not recognize - so that would be your first mistake. The model you uploaded had components mapped to a texture you did not include, called "Metal_Seamed;" that would be another mistake. I searched through my Sketchup models and found a texture that worked. The model you took a screenshot of is mapped to a texture that appears to be improperly oriented; it could be you picked a name that matched a texture already available to the sim, or you improperly mapped the blue lined texture shown, it is impossible to tell, because the model you uploaded would only have "static" wherever there was supposed to be a texture.
I have uploaded a corrected version of the hangar. I have only corrected texture assignments. You have mapped a large portion to a yellowish texture called "Roofing_Metal_Standing_Seam_Red," so the hangar remains yellow despite the texture name. There is a lot you should change and you can look some of these terms up: you should try to replace all the "colored pixels" with textured pixels, you should try to use a single "projected" texture, you should delete the little 2 dimensional image of a man, etc.

 

[Lane Street]

The sim does not substitute "graphic tiles,"

Yes it does.

In DX10 Preview Mode FSX will replace any missing textures with a file named bkg.bmp which can be found in your root FSX folder.

So I guess this "mistake" can be yours, for not knowing how the sim works.

you should try to replace all the "colored pixels" with textured pixels, ... you should delete the little 2 dimensional image of a man

Most of those "colored pixels" belong to Bob, or Larry, or whatever his name is. I miss Susan.

cheers.
Lane

 

[=rk=]

So sorry to be less than completely clear, hate to confuse the issue. Allow me to re-phrase:

"The sim that displayed static textures does not substitute "graphic tiles," nor are you showing a screenshot of the hangar you uploaded (unless you switched to the DX10 preview during the course of your demonstration without reporting that change)...it is impossible to tell, because the model you uploaded would only have "static" wherever there was supposed to be a texture. Of course we assume you did not change to DX10 preview during the course of a demonstration, as that would only further confuse the issue, almost as much as would hijacking the thread."

Meanwhile the problems remain, the model has been adjusted and Lane has established his correctness.

cheers

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Robert:

Indeed, the "Custom_Hangers_RLP.bgl" and Open_Hanger_100x75.dae 3D models attached above are both missing some mapped textures which pertain to those models.

[EDITED]

After reviewing your procedures, feel free to once again ZIP the hangar 3D model and all mapped texture files pertaining to this model from the original ex: DAE or KMZ file you exported from Sketchup (...for subsequent import into MCX).

Also, please include the hangar 3D model BGL and all mapped texture DDS files pertaining to this model (...after export from MCX).

[END_EDIT]


We shall note for purposes of this discussion, that you are working presently on a 3D model of the "open" hangar at the NE end of KCEU, Oconee County Regional Airport, Airport Road, Seneca, SC ...targeted for output to FSX in "DX10 preview" mode.

GaryGB

 

[pressler]

Thank you for the replies. I will have to work my way down:

The sim does not substitute "graphic tiles,"

I beg to differ on this point as I have seen this before when trying to insert ground Polys in ADE.

nor are you showing a screenshot of the hangar you uploaded, because that model is mapped to .jpg textures, which the sim does not recognize

Yes, it is the hanger I uploaded. It appears that the textures I used in Sketchup are .jpg format. I understand that FSX doesn't recognize .jpg. I went through the step to convert them to .dds in MCX.

The model you uploaded had components mapped to a texture you did not include, called "Metal_Seamed;" that would be another mistake. I searched through my Sketchup models and found a texture that worked. The model you took a screenshot of is mapped to a texture that appears to be improperly oriented; it could be you picked a name that matched a texture already available to the sim, or you improperly mapped the blue lined texture shown, it is impossible to tell, because the model you uploaded would only have "static" wherever there was supposed to be a texture.

On the last attempt at this, I changed from a metal texture to just a colored surface. Originally, I had six different textures, but since I decided to use a color, two of them got removed or at least I thought this was the case. I basically, painted over the textures with the color - is this a mistake? When I reviewed the textures in MCX, it showed only four textures. Of course it was getting late when I uploaded and I might not have included the correct textures in the file - my apologies.

I have uploaded a corrected version of the hangar. I have only corrected texture assignments. You have mapped a large portion to a yellowish texture called "Roofing_Metal_Standing_Seam_Red," so the hangar remains yellow despite the texture name. There is a lot you should change and you can look some of these terms up: you should try to replace all the "colored pixels" with textured pixels, you should try to use a single "projected" texture, you should delete the little 2 dimensional image of a man, etc.

Thank you for the corrected model. I will only use it only as a last resort though as I need to work through this issue to ensure I learn from this experience. Yes, the texture name with "_Red" is red in it's original state. I retinted it to try to match the real life color. I just forgot to change the name when I converted it from .jpg to .dds format. As for the 2D image of the man, that is a Sketchup thing. I haven't messed with it yet, but thanks for noticing.

So sorry to be less than completely clear, hate to confuse the issue. Allow me to re-phrase:
"The sim that displayed static textures does not substitute "graphic tiles," nor are you showing a screenshot of the hangar you uploaded (unless you switched to the DX10 preview during the course of your demonstration without reporting that change)...it is impossible to tell, because the model you uploaded would only have "static" wherever there was supposed to be a texture. Of course we assume you did not change to DX10 preview during the course of a demonstration, as that would only further confuse the issue, almost as much as would hijacking the thread."

I just checked and I guess I have been in DX10 Preview mode. What difference does it make if DX10 is turned on? (but let's not go there at this point) I wasn't intentionally running in DX10 mode, but I think one of my FSX add-ons suggested that setting and I haven't thought about it since. DX10 is now turned off. I am certainly not trying to hijack my own thread, just trying to learn a few things. I apologize if it appears that way. Again, I am new to this process, so I do not know what things are assumed, but I would suggest you ask first.

Indeed, the "Custom_Hangers_RLP.bgl" and Open_Hanger_100x75.dae 3D models attached above are both missing some mapped textures which pertain to those models.

After reviewing your procedures, feel free to once again ZIP the hangar 3D model and all mapped texture files which pertain to this model from the original ex: DAE or KMZ file you exported from Sketchup ...for subsequent import into MCX.

Also, please include the hangar 3D model BGL and all mapped texture files which pertain to this model when exported from MCX.

We shall note for purposes of this discussion, that you are working presently on a 3D model of the "open" hangar at the NE end of KCEU, Oconee County Regional Airport, Airport Road, Seneca, SC ...targeted for output to FSX in "DX10 preview" mode.

Now that I have had some sleep, I will complete the steps once again and upload the files. You are absolutely correct as to the airport and location of the hanger I am trying to add. I have turned off DX10 so that it doesn't complicate the matter.

Thanks again for your replies and patience! Robert

 

[=rk=]

Ok. You determination to "learn" may be limiting our ability to teach. We don't want you to use the hangar; seriously, I don't build models for free - except to learn. You need to open that .zip and compare it side by side to what you are using. Hijacking your thread only happens when we use the thread to pursue our own agenda - you probably don't care who knows what about DX10, so long as the answer solves your problem. You already understand the issue with DX10, so we'll leave it off and simple.

Yes, it is the hanger I uploaded. It appears that the textures I used in Sketchup are .jpg format. I understand that FSX doesn't recognize .jpg. I went through the step to convert them to .dds in MCX.

The hangar you uploaded had .jpg textures. If you converted it to .DDS in MCX, then you needed to upload that model. I already did the conversion, found the lost textures and reassigned them.

On the last attempt at this, I changed from a metal texture to just a colored surface. Originally, I had six different textures, but since I decided to use a color, two of them got removed or at least I thought this was the case. I basically, painted over the textures with the color - is this a mistake?

Every individual texture and every individual color are individual instructions, calls, to the graphics engine to draw a part of the scene. Each draw call places a significant load on the simulator. This is information you do not need to know while you are learning how to present a single model in the sim, so we don't want to confuse the issue, but you should try to learn about projecting a single texture, like a photograph, as opposed to multiple tiled textures and colors.

 

[pressler]

Ok. You determination to "learn" may be limiting our ability to teach. We don't want you to use the hangar; seriously, I don't build models for free - except to learn. You need to open that .zip and compare it side by side to what you are using. Hijacking your thread only happens when we use the thread to pursue our own agenda - you probably don't care who knows what about DX10, so long as the answer solves your problem. You already understand the issue with DX10, so we'll leave it off and simple.

The hangar you uploaded had .jpg textures. If you converted it to .DDS in MCX, then you needed to upload that model. I already did the conversion, found the lost textures and reassigned them.

Every individual texture and every individual color are individual instructions, calls, to the graphics engine to draw a part of the scene. Each draw call places a significant load on the simulator. This is information you do not need to know while you are learning how to present a single model in the sim, so we don't want to confuse the issue, but you should try to learn about projecting a single texture, like a photograph, as opposed to multiple tiled textures and colors.

Thank you Rick. I concur that the projecting a single texture is the optimal way to go. I used the current method because it seemed like the "easiest" way to get from point A to point B. But I agree with your assessment and will pursue the single texture method as I learn and move forward...just trying to take one step at a time. Your expertise is certainly appreciated.

Now for the good news: I went back through the steps from Sketchup all the way through to adding the new hanger object to my airport in ADE and it came through as expected. I found that I was overlooking a step within MCX to create the new .MDL file; therefore, probably why there were so many discrepancies that you pointed out. I sincerely apologize for my oversight.

 

[=rk=]

Looks great, sure is rewarding to get it in there the way you wanted, eh? Explore the other stuff as you move on, you already accomplished the hardest part.

 

[GaryGB]

Looks like some good progress, Robert !

If you are still inclined to post a ZIP copy of your present version of the hangar model as previously suggested, I'd be glad to inspect it again, as there were a few (minor) issues in the 3D modeling geometry of the hangar (unrelated to the texturing issues above) which I noticed during initial inspection, that you may have wanted to modify in order to eliminate some anomalies which might appear intermittently when the hangar is displayed and viewed at various angles and elevations ...at run time in FS (regardless of whether in DX-9 or DX-10 mode).

Keep up the nice work !

GaryGB

 

[pressler]

Thanks Gary!

I believe I have added all the necessary files. I would certainly appreciate any feedback as now is a good time to head off any and all bad practices. Thanks again.

 

[GaryGB]

Hi Robert:

Inspection within a live flight shows no anomalies in FSX DX-9 mode as the sim was willing to "forgive" the few (minor) issues in the 3D modeling geometry of the hangar (unrelated to the texturing issues above) ...which I had noticed during initial inspection in Sketchup.


FYI: The anomalies I see within Sketchup appear intermittently as flickering edges for vertical and angled horizontal roof support beams (on the outer-most faces of those beams beneath the exterior and interior surfaces of the roof and walls) ...when the hangar is displayed and viewed at various angles and elevations using the "Orbit" tool.


I can't vouch for whether such anomalies may show up in FSX DX-10 mode, or LM's Prepar3d (aka "P3D"), so if you or any 3rd party users do end up seeing those anomalies, you may want to modify the 3D modeling geometry of the hangar in order to eliminate any 3D modeling geometry which may cause such anomalies.



Generally speaking, one may reduce the risk of such anomalies when performing 3D modeling on a "closed Solid" (which is alternatively referred to as a "manifold" 'air-tight' or 'water-tight' 3D object).


The "closed Solid" (which is also alternatively referred to as a 'primitive' for any 3D object to be derived from it via editing) is ideal for most subsequent modeling in Sketchup.

Working with a "Solid" primitive might help minimize the work required to make a 3D model, and may allow better compatibility with more of Sketchup's default tools, 3rd party add-on Ruby plugin scripts, and Sketchup's built-in 'graphical' functions, as well as those of any external graphics application linked to Sketchup as a designated editor for textures.


BTW: Such an extruded 3D "Closed Solid" will have a bottom surface (ex: the bottom of your "open hangar" walls and roof), which, IMHO, should remain intact throughout the Sketchup 3D modeling process with that object.

When that 3D model of that object is finished, and the model has had its texturing and geometry optimized (and optionally processed with ex: thomthom's "Cleanup" add-on Ruby plugin script) ...the 'bottom' surface of the object can either be:

* retained for reported "realism" benefits via rendering 3D scenery object "shadow volumes" versus "shadow mapping"

...or:

* removed for purported performance benefits via reduced 3D geometry vertex complexity

...when exported from Sketchup ...for import to MCX ...and eventual use in FS


If you are interested at this point in the learning and development process, how one might further inspect and "fix" such 3D model geometry issues, after inspecting in a normal view mode:

Sketchup Menu > View > Face Style > Shaded With Textures


...toggle an additional view 'modifier':

Sketchup Menu > View > Face Style > Shaded With Textures > 'check' "X-Ray"


By ensuring that all adjacent faces and contiguous / interposed edges of the vertical and angled horizontal roof support beams are 'welded' / 'intersected' / processed by the 'Outer Shell', 'Join' or 'Union' tool where they adjoin one another (at the outer-most faces of those beams beneath the exterior and interior surfaces of the roof and walls), one should be able to form a 3D "solid" object, and thus one should no longer see any of the anomalies described above when inspecting in a normal view mode ...within Sketchup.


Hope this helps !

GaryGB

 

[pressler]

Wow! Gary, that is splendid advice. Much of my real life career was in the engineering discipline where I used 3D modeling cad systems, so I am familiar with the terms. I switched careers several years ago into IT, so I am a little rusty with the modeling concepts. Although, modeling for simulators is new to me, I hope to be able to grasp the fundamentals quickly, then move on to more advanced concepts in 3D modeling objects. There is so much information here, I struggle with where to start. I basically jumped in to fix my default home airport and came across this hanger that I couldn't find in ADE. So, I jumped in just to see if I could create it. Now that I have a version completed, I will heed your advice to "clean it up" and optimize it for performance.

I cannot thank you and Rick enough for the feedback and help. If you don't see me post on the forum, it will be because I am reading posts, but I will be here. Thanks again.

Robert